93 Mark VIII air ride issues

Hello all:

I'm a new owner of a 93 M8 with 86K mi. A week ago, I had all the front end bushings, joints and sway bar replaced by a Lincoln dealer, who said that the rest of the underbody parts look good, including the air suspension, brakes, etc. Drove the car home, parked it and turned the ignition off. Few minutes later I tried to start it, but it seemed that the starter was cut out (as in trying to start the car in other positions than Park or Neutral). While turning repeatedly the ignition to on-start and off, the back air springs vented all the way. The compresssor came on when the ignition was on and the car was pumped up in position, where it remained.
Started the car in Neutral.The compressor came on as it should, the car got back up, and everything seemed normal.

Since then, a coulpe of times the "Check Air Ride" message appeared within a few seconds (10 sec or so) of starting the car. Turned the ignition off and back on, and the message dissapeared. Drove the car about 90 miles in combined town/freeway situations without any problem.
This morning I started the car, the "Check Air Ride" message came on within 3-5 seconds, (I read somewhere on this site that this might be an electrical/wiring problem) AND the rear end dropped all the wy down. Turned the car off, then back on, and everything got back to normal (air ride message went away and the car was back up where it should be).

What are these symptoms indicative of? I'd appreciate any help or advice. Thank you.

RE: 93 Mark VIII air ride issues

Welcome!

Lots of info at www.americanairsuspension.com and http://www.lincolnmarkviii.org/suspension/airsuspension1.htm

RE: 93 Mark VIII air ride issues

Thank you JP, I appreciate your quick answer.
I have read everything about Eddie's American Air Suspension and also checked the other site, plus a few more, and had a couple of phone calls to Lincoln dealers. Answers: Bad neutral switch, bad air suspenion parts (everything you can think of...), bad this, bad that.

My question for everyone is if there's any intelligence or experience in the M8 community related to simptoms similar to mine. If so, I'm looking for time tested remedies, short of replacing everything. It would be easy to just replace everything, but then I might have bought a new vehicle altogether if I had the means...

I turned the air ride switch off to check for leaks (as Eddie suggested on his web site) and the rear dropped down in less than ten minutes of driving (it does not drop down when parked, and when I drive it I can't hear the compressor running overtime as if there's a bad leak - everything seems normal. On the other hand, this is my first M8 and I don't know what "normal" means in Mark8ese).
Might be something else than leaky air bags? Maybe a valve that sometimes does not close properly?? Any info will be greatly appreciated.

Thank you for your help on getting the gremlins out of my M8.

RE: 93 Mark VIII air ride issues

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
Thank you JP, I appreciate your quick answer.I have read everything about Eddie's American Air Suspension and also checked the other site, plus a few more, and had a couple of phone calls to Lincoln dealers. Answers: Bad neutral switch, bad air suspenion parts (everything you can think of...), bad this, bad that. My question for everyone is if there's any intelligence or experience in the M8 community related to simptoms similar to mine. If so, I'm looking for time tested remedies, short of replacing everything. It would be easy to just replace everything, but then I might have bought a new vehicle altogether if I had the means...I turned the air ride switch off to check for leaks (as Eddie suggested on his web site) and the rear dropped down in less than ten minutes of driving (it does not drop down when parked, and when I drive it I can't hear the compressor running overtime as if there's a bad leak - everything seems normal. On the other hand, this is my first M8 and I don't know what "normal" means in Mark8ese). Might be something else than leaky air bags? Maybe a valve that sometimes does not close properly?? Any info will be greatly appreciated.Thank you for your help on getting the gremlins out of my M8.
[/div]

You have a bizarre problem I haven't seen before...probably the reason for the few responses.

RE: 93 Mark VIII air ride issues

I'm curious, did any symptoms you describe occur BEFORE the dealer worked on the front end?

Excerpts from the manual...

If the Check Air Ride warning is displayed less than 5 seconds after vehicle is started, the Control Module detects an electrical problem before a leveling correction is attempted.

If the Check Air Ride warning is displayed at varying times with no apparent sequence of events(random order), the Control module detects either an electrical concern or encounters excessive correction time while attempting to level vehicle. Will occur most frequently at:
-- Start up if vehicle is sitting low
-- 65 mph when module attempts to lower vehicle 20mm (0.75 inch)
-- 35 mph when module attempts to raise vehicle 20mm (0.75 inch)

Front Air Springs are Completely High and/or Rear Air Springs are Completely Low. CHECK AIR RIDE Displayed 45 to 90 Seconds After Starting Vehicle
Possible Source(s):
§ Height sensor is off ball stud

Action(s) to Take:
§ Examine height sensors and reinstall on ball stud if required.

Possible Source(s):
§ Height sensor ground is open on corners that are not trim. Module does not detect this as an electrical error.

Action(s) to Take:
§ Run «Function Test» 211 to retrieve stored codes.

Possible Source(s):
§ Wiring harness has intermittent open circuit.

Action(s) to Take:
§ Run «Auto Test» .
§ Service Auto Test error codes.
§ If Code 99 is received from either memory or Auto Test, go to Pinpoint Test «J4» and check for open sensor ground.
§ Run «Function Test» 223, 224 or 225 to test for intermittent sensor and/or wiring problem.

RE: 93 Mark VIII air ride issues

JP:

Thanks for the tips from the manual. The symptoms occured right after bringing the car home from the dealer that worked on the front end.
Since then, I discovered the following:
1)Car not starting: If the ignition is turned off and the shifter is in other position than park or neutral, even if the shifter is put in park afterwrds (with the ignition off), the car won't start. I believe the car still thinks that the shifter is anywhere else but in park. It can always be started in neutral (it seems like a bug in the software).
2)Air suspension: Did the leak test (as Eddie suggests) by flipping the air ride switch off and driving the vehicle. The lower end dropped down in less than ten minutes. Talked to Eddie and ordered two rear air shocks. If this won't solve the problem, I'll keep probing and keep you all posted. Thanks.

RE: 93 Mark VIII air ride issues

First off, I believe you have multiple air ride issues. Hence the reason it is not easy to diagnose.

Secondly, I have to suspect something happened at the shop for these issues to appear as they did. The easiest answer would be a disconnected front height sensor? But that doesn't fully explain the rear dropping but I suppose that could be a whole other unrelated issue.

There is no 'software' in the start circuit. Does it crank and not start or does it not crank at all? The MLPS(aka neutral safety switch) could be the culprit. Check the obvious things first such as battery connections and grounds.

RE: 93 Mark VIII air ride issues

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
I turned the air ride switch off to check for leaks (as Eddie suggested on his web site) and the rear dropped down in less than ten minutes of driving[/div]

you have a leak in one of your rear bags.

Just because the bag doesn't leak in a static parked position doesnt really indicate it's not leaking.

What is happening is when the air bag compresses it exposes a leak that isn't exposed when the car is at a "static parked position".

Luckliy the rear bags are only like 90.00 each.
Start with the cheap parts and work your way thru the system.

Just because someone at a Lincoln Dealership said everything is OK, doesn't mean "everythings OK".

Your car just proved that guy really didn't know what he was talking about..

RE: 93 Mark VIII air ride issues

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It would be easy to just replace everything, but then I might have bought a new vehicle altogether if I had the means...
[/div]

In the long run you probably would be better off replacing everything.
Rougly 650.00 in parts for Front and Rear Bags and compressor.

My original bags started giving me problems between 75-100,000 miles
first a rear bag, then a front strut, then the other front strut, then the other rear bag.

If yours are starting to go, you can bet that the others are not far behind them as far as failure goes.

Save yourself the frustration, plunk down $650ish and make your car "gremlin free".

Get a Spider valve from Eddie while your at it.

$650.00 is less than a set of tires, if you cant afford $650.00 for repairs, then the Mark 8 is not the car for you.

RE: 93 Mark VIII air ride issues

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
First off, I believe you have multiple air ride issues. Hence the reason it is not easy to diagnose.
[/div]

I agree there, sounds as if there is more than 1 gremlin lurking around in there.

neutral safety switch is suspect along with the air ride doo doo

RE: 93 Mark VIII air ride issues

note to self: Read entire thread before replying

Rear bags on the way {good move}

Follow JP's advice about the MLPS sensor {neutral safety switch}

RE: 93 Mark VIII air ride issues

I replaced the rear bags ($89 x2 + $90 labor). So far, no more leaks.

It's not a question of affording $650 - the question is: I started with a 1,780 car (plus about $450 in all the paperwork, etc.), paid $3000 to a dealer to replace all the bushings on the front end and to fix a "check engine " light, paid $225 to flush the radiator and to replace the transmission fluid/filter - how much more is it worth to put in it to have a 13 YO M8? (I live in a condo on the Las Vegas Strip, where you can't work on your cars...).In vegas, the value of a '93 M8 with 86K Mi in very good condition is about $5500-$6000. I'll work my way up the channel of repairs until I hit this treshold, at which time I'll figure out if I can live with what I have or...else.)

So far, it runs good and flies on the freeway.

As for the neutral safety switch, I don't mind; it's actually an extra safety measure, besides the built-in alarm and the good ol' Club - nobody can hot-wire it!! ;-) Afer all it's Vegas...