Smog Test
- Thread starter Great8
- Start date
RE: Smog Test
If you remove a cat or alter the exahust pre cat, it will not pass visual. The air box is questionable. Technically you can not alter it, but most shops are less restrictive about it.
You can go with a late model mustang or lightning maf and mustang 4 bolt airbox and get improvements while looking stock.
The chip may make it throw a code, if they check, and they will fail you for it. The chip would be necessary for the airbox mod to work properly...
It all depends on how exhaustive the shops are.
Another note, Calif is rolling out "smog 2" or "enhanced" in many areas. That's a more agressive (expensive) test at a smog only facility where your car is looked over more finely and put on a dyno. They really worked over my 90 taurus when it went last month... Spent over an hour with it, pulling codes, checking vaccum lines, they opened the air box, ratted the whole exhaust...
I take the lincoln next month, I'll try and talk to them about it a bit. I intend to do some mods, but want to be able to pass smog without egregious hassles.
The Mufflers would be ok, if you want good news.
Oh, and it will pass the current generation sniffer test, no idea if a car w/o cats will pass the new smog 2 rolling test.
Scott
If you remove a cat or alter the exahust pre cat, it will not pass visual. The air box is questionable. Technically you can not alter it, but most shops are less restrictive about it.
You can go with a late model mustang or lightning maf and mustang 4 bolt airbox and get improvements while looking stock.
The chip may make it throw a code, if they check, and they will fail you for it. The chip would be necessary for the airbox mod to work properly...
It all depends on how exhaustive the shops are.
Another note, Calif is rolling out "smog 2" or "enhanced" in many areas. That's a more agressive (expensive) test at a smog only facility where your car is looked over more finely and put on a dyno. They really worked over my 90 taurus when it went last month... Spent over an hour with it, pulling codes, checking vaccum lines, they opened the air box, ratted the whole exhaust...
I take the lincoln next month, I'll try and talk to them about it a bit. I intend to do some mods, but want to be able to pass smog without egregious hassles.
The Mufflers would be ok, if you want good news.
Oh, and it will pass the current generation sniffer test, no idea if a car w/o cats will pass the new smog 2 rolling test.
Scott
RE: Smog Test
I never intended on removing the two cats just replacing them with a Geno suggested replacment. I was under the impression that the third cat could be removed without a problem. Otherwise where would I put the the XX? Now, if the MAF is going to cause a problem then that may not be the direction for me. So now what I have is the new exhaust with the two cats. New plugs of an undetermined make and model. New wires, probably the Cobra Super wires from Reinhart. The Nology's are a little expensive for me at this time. Then I would like to have a chip. I am again wondering if that might cause any problems with smog. Couldn't I put in factory chip to smog and then change back to performance chip after passing test?
So is my logic sound here or am I missing something? Any reason why these mods would not improve preformance and fuel economy? Without the MAF upgrade is the chip likely to still throw a code as you put it, or is the MAF upgrade necessary to the modification process in order to see any noticable gains?
I'm soooo confused!! Help me!
I never intended on removing the two cats just replacing them with a Geno suggested replacment. I was under the impression that the third cat could be removed without a problem. Otherwise where would I put the the XX? Now, if the MAF is going to cause a problem then that may not be the direction for me. So now what I have is the new exhaust with the two cats. New plugs of an undetermined make and model. New wires, probably the Cobra Super wires from Reinhart. The Nology's are a little expensive for me at this time. Then I would like to have a chip. I am again wondering if that might cause any problems with smog. Couldn't I put in factory chip to smog and then change back to performance chip after passing test?
So is my logic sound here or am I missing something? Any reason why these mods would not improve preformance and fuel economy? Without the MAF upgrade is the chip likely to still throw a code as you put it, or is the MAF upgrade necessary to the modification process in order to see any noticable gains?
I'm soooo confused!! Help me!
RE: Smog Test
Removing the 3rd cat is not legal. They will fail you for visual (if they look) if you remove it. Period.
A chip will cause the computer to give a failure code. If they check codes and catch it, they will require you to "fix" it before they will pass it.
There is no "factory" chip. You can pull the chip and revert back to the stock program. This will remove any corrections the chip makes for your configuration, which could impact the performance of you car during a dyno smog test.
As far as the MAF, many people have upgraded their maf without having their chip compensate for it. If you did that, and it looked stock enough, you would not have either a visual issue nor a computer code error for them to fail you for, but you would also not be getting the maximum performance out of the modification. You can not do this successfully with an L-maf or stang-maf, their sampling rates and calibrations are too far out for a stock mark computer.
Scott
Removing the 3rd cat is not legal. They will fail you for visual (if they look) if you remove it. Period.
A chip will cause the computer to give a failure code. If they check codes and catch it, they will require you to "fix" it before they will pass it.
There is no "factory" chip. You can pull the chip and revert back to the stock program. This will remove any corrections the chip makes for your configuration, which could impact the performance of you car during a dyno smog test.
As far as the MAF, many people have upgraded their maf without having their chip compensate for it. If you did that, and it looked stock enough, you would not have either a visual issue nor a computer code error for them to fail you for, but you would also not be getting the maximum performance out of the modification. You can not do this successfully with an L-maf or stang-maf, their sampling rates and calibrations are too far out for a stock mark computer.
Scott
RE: I would have to say YES!
RE: I would have to say YES!
According to the Ford exhaust engineering guy I interviewed last year - he claims that the entire system nets out a certain reading - and that was what was submitted and certified - both nationally and in California. He kind of stated a little cleaning of the exhaust happened at each of the "stops" along the way - netting the desired reading at the end of the pipe.
So the short answer is - any modification will change the reading.
So, you do an un-installation for emissions - and change it back for "off road or non-highway use".
RE: I would have to say YES!
According to the Ford exhaust engineering guy I interviewed last year - he claims that the entire system nets out a certain reading - and that was what was submitted and certified - both nationally and in California. He kind of stated a little cleaning of the exhaust happened at each of the "stops" along the way - netting the desired reading at the end of the pipe.
So the short answer is - any modification will change the reading.
So, you do an un-installation for emissions - and change it back for "off road or non-highway use".
RE: I would have to say YES!
RE: I would have to say YES!
The new agressive inspections just expanded Jan 1. A lot of people haven't been through it yet. In fact, in the San Jose area there is only ONE shop that can do the test...
It's also being selectively applied - sort of a random thing till they get more shops online, so not everyone goes. Somehow both my cars got it that have come up this year.
Sure, it might pass the sniffer test, but it won't pass visual, it they look.
Scott
RE: I would have to say YES!
The new agressive inspections just expanded Jan 1. A lot of people haven't been through it yet. In fact, in the San Jose area there is only ONE shop that can do the test...
It's also being selectively applied - sort of a random thing till they get more shops online, so not everyone goes. Somehow both my cars got it that have come up this year.
Sure, it might pass the sniffer test, but it won't pass visual, it they look.
Scott
RE: I would have to say YES!
RE: I would have to say YES!
Were using the new standars here in NJ and I passed with flying colors. I was rolled up ramps and onto a mirror and no one said a word?
I also know over 30 people with our setup that have passed.
The twin xx actually looks similar to a cat of some sort, and why would they fail a visual under the hood? The maf? I had the maf and the icebox and they Guys at DMV said "Very Nice"?
RE: I would have to say YES!
Were using the new standars here in NJ and I passed with flying colors. I was rolled up ramps and onto a mirror and no one said a word?
I also know over 30 people with our setup that have passed.
The twin xx actually looks similar to a cat of some sort, and why would they fail a visual under the hood? The maf? I had the maf and the icebox and they Guys at DMV said "Very Nice"?
Lonnie
Blue Oval Chips
RE: I would have to say YES!
RE: I would have to say YES!
Geno,
He may pass the tailpipe part of the test but he will never pass the visual inspection. The new tests if they are done right require them to not only put it on a dyno and run it up to 3 different rpms while sniffing the tailpipe but also a complete visual inspection of everything and then they plug into the OBD II port check for codes and test each O2 sensor. Then at random pull off a sensor or two to see if it throws a code and the OBD II is working. There is no way your equipment will pass any of the visual part. I just went through all this and so far just in fines I’m up to $1000.
And now to make things worse they have task forces out setting up road blocks to check cars for compliance. I have been on the phone with the head mother ______ in charge of all the CARB and state run Referee shops besides actually going there several times to get this resolved. I’ve even had the car taken from me and after paying the fine, towing and stowage cost of $497. And now I have 30 days to get it in compliance or they take if from me after a battle in court. The car isn’t even registered here but the law is written for out of staters too.
It all started last month when I was having ignition problems.
I installed the new coil and the problem went away until during the test drive about two blocks away, then just like before like half the cylinders drop out. The strange thing is it is just like when the fuel cutout is activated. RPMs drop about 200 and the tach stays rock steady but no power, you can hear like every other cylinder firing. So I messed around some more with checking the wires and it’s now dark. Then I see an arc come from one of the wires to the coil I just replaced. Pulled on it and it came right out. So I repaired that and took the car for another test drive. Same problem, just like before rpms drop and no power. Jump out and check fuel pressure and look for arcing and everything is good. So I pull back in run the scan and nothing all good to go. So I install the jumper for the MSD again then take it for another test. This is where it really went bad.
I drive to the backside of the base since I’m not chancing going off the island the way it’s running. The traffic is down to nothing after 6 so that’s why it’s good but you have to watch for people. It’s also really quiet and my car makes a lot of noise with the Super Trapps. Anyways I take off and give it just enough throttle to keep it in 1st gear up to 4500 rpm where it was breaking up. Well it didn’t break up this time so I let up allowing the trans to shift early, thus barking the tires. Then slowed down so I could play with the throttle some to try and get the car to act up again, so far so good. But this doesn’t mean the problem is gone since sometimes I can go for 20 miles or more before it does it.
I get to the light on the main street and start heading back to the house. Now I did the old right on red and had to wait for someone to cross before going. Just as the car shifted into second and of course barked the tires, I’m doing less than 30 mph I see blue lights then the siren. So I pull over and start pulling out my stuff. I haven’t had a ticket in like 15 years or more. I don’t shut the car off cause of it not starting before and didn’t want to take that chance. Well this cop was one of those real assholes and starts screaming at me to turn off the engine an put my hand on the dash gun pulled and all. I’m thinking Jesus Christ what the hell is his problem.
He asks for my stuff and then starts yelling at me for drag racing. I try and explain to him that I wasn’t and that I was trouble shooting the car. He didn’t want to hear it. And then I added you have to have another vehicle to race against to be drag racing also. That wasn’t such a good idea on my part.
He goes to his car and is there for 20 minutes after I started keeping track. Next thing I know there are 2 more cops pulling up. They start walking around the car discussing something. Then finally this younger cop comes up to me and has me get out of the car. Then asks what I’m doing driving a race car on the street. As were talking a wrecker shows up. They are planning on confiscating my car. Now I’m worried, and ask what’s the problem. Then the cop says he’s part of a tasks force for street racing and CA emission violations. So he has me open the hood and starts taking pictures of the engine and writing down the information. Well he said that he’s been specially trained to recognize all violations. So he hits me for my cold air induction first, then the braided steel fuel lines, the engine it’s self. I told him it’s the factory engine with the Ford intake on it. He said IAW CA Emissions LAW any deviation to the engine is now against the law. So he hit me for the intake, polishing of the valve covers and intake is a violation also. He said that DOHC didn’t come in the car because he can’t see the headers. I showed him the owners manual indicating the DOHC. He still didn’t buy it, He had me start it then he had my buddy get out while he reved the engine. And wouldn’t you know it ran perfectly fine for him. So he shuts it back off and said that there is no way that the engine is factory or stock that I’ve done or had someone work over the engine. And he added this car is more a race car than a street car and should not be legal on the street. I added to that comment that Ford now has a Cobra that puts out almost twice the hp I have and its factory and not a race car.
He continued on saying that it sounds like I have headers, headers are illegal. I pointed to the drivers side and told him to hold his flashlight over here and you will see that the factory exhaust manifolds are still there. The pulled out a floor jack and jacked up the car, took more pics. Then he hit me of missing the 3rd cat and that the car didn’t come with that exhaust. Then hit me for the Super Trapps. After that he went back to the engine compartment, asked about the powder coating. Said that was illegal cause of the fumes it puts out when heated or catch on fire. He noticed the under drive pulleys and wrote that down too. He didn’t right down the MSD cause I had the CAFÉ sticker in the back seat since I had the instructions with me while trouble shooting.
So then the older cop comes up to me and give me 2 tickets for speeding. I asked if I could see the radar replay and he told me that he didn’t get any radar on me cause I was going too fast. But he wrote me a ticket for 55 in a 30 and 45 in a 30. Then said if I want to fight it that he could time how long it took him to catch up to me and work out the speed that way so go ahead and try and fight it. Then he gave me a ticket for reckless operation for spinning my tires. The bark and chirp going into second gear.
After that then the younger officer comes up and hands me this form with all the violations he found, 17 in all. Then because I gave him my local address which was one block from us he decided not to tow away the car. So I have to now take the car to a referee for the state after I fix all the violations and get a in compliance with CA Emissions sticker or I turn in the car. This has to be done by the 17th of next month.
After all this when I go to pull away the car starts acting up again. So I still have the cylinders cutting out on me besides all this other crap now. This is going to cost me big time and I don’t have it to spend. I still have to find a job. Going to be really hard to find one now without a car.
After waiting about an hour at the Referee they finally let me in the compound. As soon as I pulled the car up it was overtaken by 4 of the technicians and the 2 supervisors. Mostly all compliments on how clean it looked, the exhaust note and so on.
I explained to them why I was there and then opened the hood. The first comment out of the sups mouth if he starts on the car then I’m totally screwed cause it will never pass. He’s required to go strictly by the law and any deviations will cause it to fail. So he didn’t want to put me in that situation. So he did a quick look to see what I actually had and the said there’s no reason why the car wouldn’t pass the sniffer part to the test even with the 3rd cat removed. But he didn’t want to touch it cause he thinks it’s not right that the cops hit me for emissions when I’ve gone out of my way to ensure everything works and I have all the factory required components and they all work. But just because of the over zealous cops here I’m another victim. Then he went on about how well the swap looks and it could pass for factory. The list that I provide from the cop he laughed at and said he’s an idiot, specially trained my ass. This guy stated that he is also an instructor at the college here that certifies the students for this type of work. So he is called upon all the time for a witness or advises on court cases dealing with emissions. This guy was so good that he knew just what model Super Trapps I had and what the CARB number was.
His advice was to not go through the inspection cause then it’s in the system and once there I’m screwed. But to go to the judge and explain the case and see if he or she is basically having a good day and lets me go on it. I’m thinking not likely and told him that. He said he’s seen it happen a few times. And while I’m talking to the judge explain that the car will pass the sniffer portion and it’s out of state where as the mods are legal.
Then if that doesn’t work and they make me go through the inspection then my only choice would be to take the car out of state, sell it out of state or comply and return it back to stock. He said it would be a real shame if I had to return it back to stock cause the only things he sees wrong is the cold air induction and missing the 3rd cat. if the court buys into the Cobra intake.
The other thing he suggested was to contact Ford and they have a test facility somewhere north of here. But to see if they would help me in taking a look at the car and maybe writing a letter stating that the installation of the Cobra intake on that engine does meet the clean air requirements. I wonder if they would even bother with me since I’m only one person and what the costs would be.
I finally get a hold of the HMFIC of CA’s emissions cartel. We spent about 2 hours discussing my car and he’s not about to budge. The law was written as far as he is concerned to discourage hot rodding and the shade tree mechanic. This was the whole reason that the state went to visual inspections and not just the tail pipe test so that people weren’t just throwing combinations together, even if they passed the sniffer. And that the new bills going to the state to become laws are going to get even tougher.
So as he tells me, I have 3 choices. Sell the car out of state, put it back to stock or complete the conversion to 1998 emissions specs because of the 98 Cobra intake. Just for the major parts alone it would cost me $4,400 to put it back to stock at dealership prices. That’s not counting gaskets, bolts and a engine harness.
Now he said if I were to make the engine look and run just like the 98 Cobra than they could pass that. Well I have everything on it now that makes it a 98, save for the things that don’t count….crank, cams. So I told him that it’s already in that condition now. He said no, it has to have a 98 computer with OBD II and show no codes. So after arguing some more he said if I could get an OBD II computer to operate with that combination than he could accept the modification. So a 96 Mark is ECC V and does have OBD II correct? He didn’t know and said I sound like I know more about that stuff than him. But then he backed out of that and said it has to be a 98 processor.
So what’s it going to take to get around this? I see I need a 96 Mark engine harness going all the way to the ECC. How do they know what year the EEC is? If they really don’t I can have a 96 Mark EEC V reflashed to look like Cobra one to keep them fooled?
Then he went on to say that I would have to have all the sensors that the 98 Cobra has. I do have all those I’m pretty sure. And he went on to say that they have 4 O2 sensors. Then there’s the IMRC sensors and the air pump that isn’t on a 93 – 95 Mark and it’s sensors.
Then had my day in court….
Well had my day in court and it wasn't much fun. I swear that cop is a complete moron. You know the type that, low IQ so they go for a government job with authority so they can push people around and feel important.
Well before I went I got one of the cop friends of mine to ride with me so he could take a pic of the tach and speedo at 4500 rpms to prove I wasn't going 55+ like he stated. Then we tested the cars speedo and it's right on, lucked out there. So he wrote his name, badge number, date and a brief run down on what we did.
I also had my buddy that was with me write out what happened that night and state that we were testing at 4500 rpms. Then he had it notarized.
So as the cop was testifying I was marking up my paperwork as where I could punch holes in his statements
Then when it was my turn I first asked the officer where he gets his ears calibrated to be able to tell the exact speed of a car by listening to the exhaust and how it works when the car has lower gears installed. He got all pissed and said he could also tell by how long it took him to catch up to me. And I stated well if you had to catch up to me than you were going much faster then I was.
The judge then asked if he use radar and he said no that I was moving at to high a rate of speed. I then presented my picture of the tach and speedo, alone with a write up I got from Precision Industry about high stall converters.
She looked at that and I pointed out that I was not going the 55+ but as the pic shows I was doing 36. She didn't want to here anything about the how a stall converter worked. So that fine was dropped from $250 to $162.
The when she asked if I had my smog certificate and I told her no it got bad. So I had to go through all the BS and she didn't buy any of it. She gave me a fine of $482 and 30 days to get it to conform to CA standards. I told her I needed more than 30 days and she wouldn't give it to me. As I was waiting in line to see the bailiff there was another guy for something similar, it was his 2 time up. She gave him a fine of $1500 and told him he had 10 days or give up the car. So I wonder how high they can actually fine you here.
Now back to Referee shop for more info on what I need to do and so on. I'm not sure how they can know what the computer comes from besides the code. But he says it has to be a complete package. So that means a Cobra computer too unless a reflash with Cobra's code into this a Mark EEC. That's something I know nothing about.
Oh by the way, all those that are running what they think to be 50 State legal parts on their Tbirds, Marks and so on most of those parts have an EO number for Mustangs only, it doesn't go by engine. So say you a CAI for a Mustang but it fits your Mark VII and your running it. Well it's not legal. So those with the 5.0s that think that TFS or Edelbrock intake or set of heads are good to go, well they aren't. Those EO numbers are for a Mustang only. Unless the part was built for the car it is installed on and was tested and met all the CARB requirements then received a EO number it’s not legal. So here you go Geno. I know you don’t have EO numbers for your equipment so your not legal in CA. I have to remove my MSD unit cause it’s doesn’t have a EO number for a MARK but it does for a Mustang. My Super Trapps have and EO number straight across so I’m good there.
And there is no company that I have been able to find or the Referee shop that makes a dual in dual out cat for my third cat except for Ford. So I have to purchase the factory 3rd cat. I found companies that do make them but they aren’t certified for a Mark so I can’t use them. They will check the numbers.
And this is were I am now and with 19 days left before I go back to court
I went to my buddy’s junkyard on Monday to see what I could find for the Mark VIII to make it legal. They had 2 96 Marks there which is the first year for the EEC V OBD II. When I got to them they both already had their engine/trans taken and wiring harness. The jerks cut the exhaust manifolds on both of them, stupid beaners. He goes through them like you wouldn’t believe. You can’t teach them anything or take your eye off them. I needed them too. But the EECs were still in them and the harness from them to the firewall.
So I started taking one out when Mike the owner pulls in with another Mark. It was a 96 also and from the front was in great shape. So I talked to him about my bullshit situation and he said if I pull that engine/trans since he knew his guys would screw it up he would give me a deal on the exhaust manifolds, electric air pump, it's hoses and pipes, wiring and the air box and filter.
Then I can have what I need off the other 2 Marks in wire harnesses to make it all work in my car for $350 and tax. That's a pretty good deal. He wrote it all down on paper for me. So today I started at 10:30 and had the engine/trans out by 2:30 by myself. My hands are going to be sore as hell tonight. I’m one of the only ones he lets pull parts since he knows I won’t just start cutting and breaking things. I think I got everything I need now but the dual in and dual out cat, so I’m making some headway. I just need to cut the plugs off the EEC V harness so I can make the jumper to the EEC IV connector.
Installing the hardware shouldn’t be to bad as long as I can get the K- member down low enough to get at the manifold bolts.
That smog pump mounts right where my vacuum reservoir is mounted so I need to find a new place for it. That’s going to be the PITA.
Oh the engine/trans that I took out of the Mark only had 34K on it. Some old retired guy owned it. His golf clubs were still in the trunk. When we got the trunk finally open they called him to come pick them up.
I took my time dropping it out so that every line and wire is still there and it’s ready to drop in. Only thing missing besides the smog pump is the 2 vacuum lines to the pump solenoid valve.
Well looking at the bright side of all this BS, I’ll have a better EEC and hopefully my 1 – 2 shift won’t hang up anymore. Thought I had that fixed with lowering the shift rpms and Dennis’ new trans but it shows up once in awhile still.
Then once it’s certified as a Cobra engine I can put on any Cobra aftermarket part and it will still be legal. And what ever state that I end up in if they go to the same standards as CA I’m ok. There’s about 12 right now that are getting ready to change over when I went to the website.
Lonnie
http://members.tccoa.com/lonnie/smallmark8.jpg
95 Mark VIII, modified
92 Thunderbird, 5.0 Sport modified
RE: I would have to say YES!
Geno,
He may pass the tailpipe part of the test but he will never pass the visual inspection. The new tests if they are done right require them to not only put it on a dyno and run it up to 3 different rpms while sniffing the tailpipe but also a complete visual inspection of everything and then they plug into the OBD II port check for codes and test each O2 sensor. Then at random pull off a sensor or two to see if it throws a code and the OBD II is working. There is no way your equipment will pass any of the visual part. I just went through all this and so far just in fines I’m up to $1000.
And now to make things worse they have task forces out setting up road blocks to check cars for compliance. I have been on the phone with the head mother ______ in charge of all the CARB and state run Referee shops besides actually going there several times to get this resolved. I’ve even had the car taken from me and after paying the fine, towing and stowage cost of $497. And now I have 30 days to get it in compliance or they take if from me after a battle in court. The car isn’t even registered here but the law is written for out of staters too.
It all started last month when I was having ignition problems.
I installed the new coil and the problem went away until during the test drive about two blocks away, then just like before like half the cylinders drop out. The strange thing is it is just like when the fuel cutout is activated. RPMs drop about 200 and the tach stays rock steady but no power, you can hear like every other cylinder firing. So I messed around some more with checking the wires and it’s now dark. Then I see an arc come from one of the wires to the coil I just replaced. Pulled on it and it came right out. So I repaired that and took the car for another test drive. Same problem, just like before rpms drop and no power. Jump out and check fuel pressure and look for arcing and everything is good. So I pull back in run the scan and nothing all good to go. So I install the jumper for the MSD again then take it for another test. This is where it really went bad.
I drive to the backside of the base since I’m not chancing going off the island the way it’s running. The traffic is down to nothing after 6 so that’s why it’s good but you have to watch for people. It’s also really quiet and my car makes a lot of noise with the Super Trapps. Anyways I take off and give it just enough throttle to keep it in 1st gear up to 4500 rpm where it was breaking up. Well it didn’t break up this time so I let up allowing the trans to shift early, thus barking the tires. Then slowed down so I could play with the throttle some to try and get the car to act up again, so far so good. But this doesn’t mean the problem is gone since sometimes I can go for 20 miles or more before it does it.
I get to the light on the main street and start heading back to the house. Now I did the old right on red and had to wait for someone to cross before going. Just as the car shifted into second and of course barked the tires, I’m doing less than 30 mph I see blue lights then the siren. So I pull over and start pulling out my stuff. I haven’t had a ticket in like 15 years or more. I don’t shut the car off cause of it not starting before and didn’t want to take that chance. Well this cop was one of those real assholes and starts screaming at me to turn off the engine an put my hand on the dash gun pulled and all. I’m thinking Jesus Christ what the hell is his problem.
He asks for my stuff and then starts yelling at me for drag racing. I try and explain to him that I wasn’t and that I was trouble shooting the car. He didn’t want to hear it. And then I added you have to have another vehicle to race against to be drag racing also. That wasn’t such a good idea on my part.
He goes to his car and is there for 20 minutes after I started keeping track. Next thing I know there are 2 more cops pulling up. They start walking around the car discussing something. Then finally this younger cop comes up to me and has me get out of the car. Then asks what I’m doing driving a race car on the street. As were talking a wrecker shows up. They are planning on confiscating my car. Now I’m worried, and ask what’s the problem. Then the cop says he’s part of a tasks force for street racing and CA emission violations. So he has me open the hood and starts taking pictures of the engine and writing down the information. Well he said that he’s been specially trained to recognize all violations. So he hits me for my cold air induction first, then the braided steel fuel lines, the engine it’s self. I told him it’s the factory engine with the Ford intake on it. He said IAW CA Emissions LAW any deviation to the engine is now against the law. So he hit me for the intake, polishing of the valve covers and intake is a violation also. He said that DOHC didn’t come in the car because he can’t see the headers. I showed him the owners manual indicating the DOHC. He still didn’t buy it, He had me start it then he had my buddy get out while he reved the engine. And wouldn’t you know it ran perfectly fine for him. So he shuts it back off and said that there is no way that the engine is factory or stock that I’ve done or had someone work over the engine. And he added this car is more a race car than a street car and should not be legal on the street. I added to that comment that Ford now has a Cobra that puts out almost twice the hp I have and its factory and not a race car.
He continued on saying that it sounds like I have headers, headers are illegal. I pointed to the drivers side and told him to hold his flashlight over here and you will see that the factory exhaust manifolds are still there. The pulled out a floor jack and jacked up the car, took more pics. Then he hit me of missing the 3rd cat and that the car didn’t come with that exhaust. Then hit me for the Super Trapps. After that he went back to the engine compartment, asked about the powder coating. Said that was illegal cause of the fumes it puts out when heated or catch on fire. He noticed the under drive pulleys and wrote that down too. He didn’t right down the MSD cause I had the CAFÉ sticker in the back seat since I had the instructions with me while trouble shooting.
So then the older cop comes up to me and give me 2 tickets for speeding. I asked if I could see the radar replay and he told me that he didn’t get any radar on me cause I was going too fast. But he wrote me a ticket for 55 in a 30 and 45 in a 30. Then said if I want to fight it that he could time how long it took him to catch up to me and work out the speed that way so go ahead and try and fight it. Then he gave me a ticket for reckless operation for spinning my tires. The bark and chirp going into second gear.
After that then the younger officer comes up and hands me this form with all the violations he found, 17 in all. Then because I gave him my local address which was one block from us he decided not to tow away the car. So I have to now take the car to a referee for the state after I fix all the violations and get a in compliance with CA Emissions sticker or I turn in the car. This has to be done by the 17th of next month.
After all this when I go to pull away the car starts acting up again. So I still have the cylinders cutting out on me besides all this other crap now. This is going to cost me big time and I don’t have it to spend. I still have to find a job. Going to be really hard to find one now without a car.
After waiting about an hour at the Referee they finally let me in the compound. As soon as I pulled the car up it was overtaken by 4 of the technicians and the 2 supervisors. Mostly all compliments on how clean it looked, the exhaust note and so on.
I explained to them why I was there and then opened the hood. The first comment out of the sups mouth if he starts on the car then I’m totally screwed cause it will never pass. He’s required to go strictly by the law and any deviations will cause it to fail. So he didn’t want to put me in that situation. So he did a quick look to see what I actually had and the said there’s no reason why the car wouldn’t pass the sniffer part to the test even with the 3rd cat removed. But he didn’t want to touch it cause he thinks it’s not right that the cops hit me for emissions when I’ve gone out of my way to ensure everything works and I have all the factory required components and they all work. But just because of the over zealous cops here I’m another victim. Then he went on about how well the swap looks and it could pass for factory. The list that I provide from the cop he laughed at and said he’s an idiot, specially trained my ass. This guy stated that he is also an instructor at the college here that certifies the students for this type of work. So he is called upon all the time for a witness or advises on court cases dealing with emissions. This guy was so good that he knew just what model Super Trapps I had and what the CARB number was.
His advice was to not go through the inspection cause then it’s in the system and once there I’m screwed. But to go to the judge and explain the case and see if he or she is basically having a good day and lets me go on it. I’m thinking not likely and told him that. He said he’s seen it happen a few times. And while I’m talking to the judge explain that the car will pass the sniffer portion and it’s out of state where as the mods are legal.
Then if that doesn’t work and they make me go through the inspection then my only choice would be to take the car out of state, sell it out of state or comply and return it back to stock. He said it would be a real shame if I had to return it back to stock cause the only things he sees wrong is the cold air induction and missing the 3rd cat. if the court buys into the Cobra intake.
The other thing he suggested was to contact Ford and they have a test facility somewhere north of here. But to see if they would help me in taking a look at the car and maybe writing a letter stating that the installation of the Cobra intake on that engine does meet the clean air requirements. I wonder if they would even bother with me since I’m only one person and what the costs would be.
I finally get a hold of the HMFIC of CA’s emissions cartel. We spent about 2 hours discussing my car and he’s not about to budge. The law was written as far as he is concerned to discourage hot rodding and the shade tree mechanic. This was the whole reason that the state went to visual inspections and not just the tail pipe test so that people weren’t just throwing combinations together, even if they passed the sniffer. And that the new bills going to the state to become laws are going to get even tougher.
So as he tells me, I have 3 choices. Sell the car out of state, put it back to stock or complete the conversion to 1998 emissions specs because of the 98 Cobra intake. Just for the major parts alone it would cost me $4,400 to put it back to stock at dealership prices. That’s not counting gaskets, bolts and a engine harness.
Now he said if I were to make the engine look and run just like the 98 Cobra than they could pass that. Well I have everything on it now that makes it a 98, save for the things that don’t count….crank, cams. So I told him that it’s already in that condition now. He said no, it has to have a 98 computer with OBD II and show no codes. So after arguing some more he said if I could get an OBD II computer to operate with that combination than he could accept the modification. So a 96 Mark is ECC V and does have OBD II correct? He didn’t know and said I sound like I know more about that stuff than him. But then he backed out of that and said it has to be a 98 processor.
So what’s it going to take to get around this? I see I need a 96 Mark engine harness going all the way to the ECC. How do they know what year the EEC is? If they really don’t I can have a 96 Mark EEC V reflashed to look like Cobra one to keep them fooled?
Then he went on to say that I would have to have all the sensors that the 98 Cobra has. I do have all those I’m pretty sure. And he went on to say that they have 4 O2 sensors. Then there’s the IMRC sensors and the air pump that isn’t on a 93 – 95 Mark and it’s sensors.
Then had my day in court….
Well had my day in court and it wasn't much fun. I swear that cop is a complete moron. You know the type that, low IQ so they go for a government job with authority so they can push people around and feel important.
Well before I went I got one of the cop friends of mine to ride with me so he could take a pic of the tach and speedo at 4500 rpms to prove I wasn't going 55+ like he stated. Then we tested the cars speedo and it's right on, lucked out there. So he wrote his name, badge number, date and a brief run down on what we did.
I also had my buddy that was with me write out what happened that night and state that we were testing at 4500 rpms. Then he had it notarized.
So as the cop was testifying I was marking up my paperwork as where I could punch holes in his statements
Then when it was my turn I first asked the officer where he gets his ears calibrated to be able to tell the exact speed of a car by listening to the exhaust and how it works when the car has lower gears installed. He got all pissed and said he could also tell by how long it took him to catch up to me. And I stated well if you had to catch up to me than you were going much faster then I was.
The judge then asked if he use radar and he said no that I was moving at to high a rate of speed. I then presented my picture of the tach and speedo, alone with a write up I got from Precision Industry about high stall converters.
She looked at that and I pointed out that I was not going the 55+ but as the pic shows I was doing 36. She didn't want to here anything about the how a stall converter worked. So that fine was dropped from $250 to $162.
The when she asked if I had my smog certificate and I told her no it got bad. So I had to go through all the BS and she didn't buy any of it. She gave me a fine of $482 and 30 days to get it to conform to CA standards. I told her I needed more than 30 days and she wouldn't give it to me. As I was waiting in line to see the bailiff there was another guy for something similar, it was his 2 time up. She gave him a fine of $1500 and told him he had 10 days or give up the car. So I wonder how high they can actually fine you here.
Now back to Referee shop for more info on what I need to do and so on. I'm not sure how they can know what the computer comes from besides the code. But he says it has to be a complete package. So that means a Cobra computer too unless a reflash with Cobra's code into this a Mark EEC. That's something I know nothing about.
Oh by the way, all those that are running what they think to be 50 State legal parts on their Tbirds, Marks and so on most of those parts have an EO number for Mustangs only, it doesn't go by engine. So say you a CAI for a Mustang but it fits your Mark VII and your running it. Well it's not legal. So those with the 5.0s that think that TFS or Edelbrock intake or set of heads are good to go, well they aren't. Those EO numbers are for a Mustang only. Unless the part was built for the car it is installed on and was tested and met all the CARB requirements then received a EO number it’s not legal. So here you go Geno. I know you don’t have EO numbers for your equipment so your not legal in CA. I have to remove my MSD unit cause it’s doesn’t have a EO number for a MARK but it does for a Mustang. My Super Trapps have and EO number straight across so I’m good there.
And there is no company that I have been able to find or the Referee shop that makes a dual in dual out cat for my third cat except for Ford. So I have to purchase the factory 3rd cat. I found companies that do make them but they aren’t certified for a Mark so I can’t use them. They will check the numbers.
And this is were I am now and with 19 days left before I go back to court
I went to my buddy’s junkyard on Monday to see what I could find for the Mark VIII to make it legal. They had 2 96 Marks there which is the first year for the EEC V OBD II. When I got to them they both already had their engine/trans taken and wiring harness. The jerks cut the exhaust manifolds on both of them, stupid beaners. He goes through them like you wouldn’t believe. You can’t teach them anything or take your eye off them. I needed them too. But the EECs were still in them and the harness from them to the firewall.
So I started taking one out when Mike the owner pulls in with another Mark. It was a 96 also and from the front was in great shape. So I talked to him about my bullshit situation and he said if I pull that engine/trans since he knew his guys would screw it up he would give me a deal on the exhaust manifolds, electric air pump, it's hoses and pipes, wiring and the air box and filter.
Then I can have what I need off the other 2 Marks in wire harnesses to make it all work in my car for $350 and tax. That's a pretty good deal. He wrote it all down on paper for me. So today I started at 10:30 and had the engine/trans out by 2:30 by myself. My hands are going to be sore as hell tonight. I’m one of the only ones he lets pull parts since he knows I won’t just start cutting and breaking things. I think I got everything I need now but the dual in and dual out cat, so I’m making some headway. I just need to cut the plugs off the EEC V harness so I can make the jumper to the EEC IV connector.
Installing the hardware shouldn’t be to bad as long as I can get the K- member down low enough to get at the manifold bolts.
That smog pump mounts right where my vacuum reservoir is mounted so I need to find a new place for it. That’s going to be the PITA.
Oh the engine/trans that I took out of the Mark only had 34K on it. Some old retired guy owned it. His golf clubs were still in the trunk. When we got the trunk finally open they called him to come pick them up.
I took my time dropping it out so that every line and wire is still there and it’s ready to drop in. Only thing missing besides the smog pump is the 2 vacuum lines to the pump solenoid valve.
Well looking at the bright side of all this BS, I’ll have a better EEC and hopefully my 1 – 2 shift won’t hang up anymore. Thought I had that fixed with lowering the shift rpms and Dennis’ new trans but it shows up once in awhile still.
Then once it’s certified as a Cobra engine I can put on any Cobra aftermarket part and it will still be legal. And what ever state that I end up in if they go to the same standards as CA I’m ok. There’s about 12 right now that are getting ready to change over when I went to the website.
Lonnie
http://members.tccoa.com/lonnie/smallmark8.jpg
95 Mark VIII, modified
92 Thunderbird, 5.0 Sport modified
RE: I would have to say YES!
RE: I would have to say YES!
Boy am I ever glad that I left CA and came to TX. At one time I had planned on having my permanent home in Sausalito after living there for four years, but left about two weeks after the big quake in Oct 89.
Considering all the problems you're having, I know it's no consolation but I like your flames. A car without flames is like a French kiss without a tongue.
You said that you drove to the backside of the base. I'm guessing you're in the service and stationed there. If so why don't you make a quick call to the JAG and see if there is anything in the Soldier's and Sailor's Civil Relief Act that can help exempt you from the inspections because you car is only in CA due to a military assignment. Just a thought.
It's a sad state of affairs if your car is registered and passes a safety inspection in your home state, that you can be jerked around like this by CA. Good Luck.
Lee
RE: I would have to say YES!
Boy am I ever glad that I left CA and came to TX. At one time I had planned on having my permanent home in Sausalito after living there for four years, but left about two weeks after the big quake in Oct 89.
Considering all the problems you're having, I know it's no consolation but I like your flames. A car without flames is like a French kiss without a tongue.
You said that you drove to the backside of the base. I'm guessing you're in the service and stationed there. If so why don't you make a quick call to the JAG and see if there is anything in the Soldier's and Sailor's Civil Relief Act that can help exempt you from the inspections because you car is only in CA due to a military assignment. Just a thought.
It's a sad state of affairs if your car is registered and passes a safety inspection in your home state, that you can be jerked around like this by CA. Good Luck.
Lee
J
joeychgo
Guest
RE: I would have to say YES!
RE: I would have to say YES!
One more reason you couldnt DRAG me to live in California. In Chicago we have emmissions tests also. You pull up, the sut the tube in your exhaust, and spin the wheels for awhile. THATS IT. No aggravgation, no nothin.
However, we do have young cops trying to prove themselves in court...... They usually fail against me
(5 tickets in 2 years, only 1 conviction)
Good luck.....you have a tough situation. Maybe, you could register it in Nevada and avoid all this?
RE: I would have to say YES!
One more reason you couldnt DRAG me to live in California. In Chicago we have emmissions tests also. You pull up, the sut the tube in your exhaust, and spin the wheels for awhile. THATS IT. No aggravgation, no nothin.
However, we do have young cops trying to prove themselves in court...... They usually fail against me
(5 tickets in 2 years, only 1 conviction) Good luck.....you have a tough situation. Maybe, you could register it in Nevada and avoid all this?
Lonnie
Blue Oval Chips
RE: I would have to say YES!
RE: I would have to say YES!
Thanks Lee,
Even the military isn't exempt anymore with this new law. Check this out.
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/STDPAGE.ASP?BODY=/GENINFO/PUBLICATIONS/OUT_OF_STATE_CAR_(STOP_BEFORE_YOU_BUY).HTM
I can't get the above site to work right but if you cut and paste it works fine.
So if you have any aftermarket parts installed hopefully you won't run across one of the task forces set up on some road. And you'll have to remove them before you get your smog test.
Here's a listing of EO numbers and manufactures also.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/devices.htm
http://members.tccoa.com/lonnie/smallmark8.jpg
95 Mark VIII, modified
92 Thunderbird, 5.0 Sport modified
RE: I would have to say YES!
Thanks Lee,
Even the military isn't exempt anymore with this new law. Check this out.
http://www.smogcheck.ca.gov/STDPAGE.ASP?BODY=/GENINFO/PUBLICATIONS/OUT_OF_STATE_CAR_(STOP_BEFORE_YOU_BUY).HTM
I can't get the above site to work right but if you cut and paste it works fine.
So if you have any aftermarket parts installed hopefully you won't run across one of the task forces set up on some road. And you'll have to remove them before you get your smog test.
Here's a listing of EO numbers and manufactures also.
http://www.arb.ca.gov/msprog/aftermkt/devices/devices.htm
http://members.tccoa.com/lonnie/smallmark8.jpg
95 Mark VIII, modified
92 Thunderbird, 5.0 Sport modified
RE: I would have to say YES!
RE: I would have to say YES!
I haven't had to try this site yet but if you have to get a lawyer I firmly believe in getting one who specializes in your particular problem. I'm about ready to vacate the premises too. BTW, that's the way the CA inspection started out about twenty years ago....just a sniffer up the pipe and done. Now it's one hoop after the other.
http://www.nationalmotoristsassociation.com/
RE: I would have to say YES!
I haven't had to try this site yet but if you have to get a lawyer I firmly believe in getting one who specializes in your particular problem. I'm about ready to vacate the premises too. BTW, that's the way the CA inspection started out about twenty years ago....just a sniffer up the pipe and done. Now it's one hoop after the other.
http://www.nationalmotoristsassociation.com/
Lonnie
Blue Oval Chips
RE: I would have to say YES!
RE: I would have to say YES!
Yeah I have been to that site and one of the 3 lawyers I spoke with is the big dog that is going after the cameras at the stop signs.
All 3 basically said the same thing if I got money to burn sure they will fight it for me. But the chances of a sort case and winning are slim to none. CA is already being investigated by congress for other smog related things having to do with big factories. But this would be a hard case to fight and very costly.
I'm not in the position of fighting it, I more important concerns in my life.
http://members.tccoa.com/lonnie/smallmark8.jpg
95 Mark VIII, modified
92 Thunderbird, 5.0 Sport modified
RE: I would have to say YES!
Yeah I have been to that site and one of the 3 lawyers I spoke with is the big dog that is going after the cameras at the stop signs.
All 3 basically said the same thing if I got money to burn sure they will fight it for me. But the chances of a sort case and winning are slim to none. CA is already being investigated by congress for other smog related things having to do with big factories. But this would be a hard case to fight and very costly.
I'm not in the position of fighting it, I more important concerns in my life.
http://members.tccoa.com/lonnie/smallmark8.jpg
95 Mark VIII, modified
92 Thunderbird, 5.0 Sport modified
RE: I would have to say YES!
RE: I would have to say YES!
Your problem Lonnie is that it looks too good. That car just SCREAMS to cops "Pull me OVER!") I guess the lesson to those of us Californians considering MODS is 'keep the OEM stuff so we can bolt it back on, in a pinch.' Good luck bud, I'm really beginning to hate this state too.
RE: I would have to say YES!
Your problem Lonnie is that it looks too good. That car just SCREAMS to cops "Pull me OVER!"
) I guess the lesson to those of us Californians considering MODS is 'keep the OEM stuff so we can bolt it back on, in a pinch.' Good luck bud, I'm really beginning to hate this state too.RE: I would have to say YES!
RE: I would have to say YES!
Lonnie,
This is not a "rub-in", but luckily here in Arkansas they did away with vehicle inspections a few years ago. The police agencies keep tabs on vehicles and can pull you over if they suspect something with your vehicle, although they are pretty lenient.
Your situation reminds me of New Jersey, where I came from before I moved to the Ozarks 11 years ago. Nothing but a big rip-off. It would take me pages upon pages about some of the ordeals I've went through as well as many others that I know. Just another reason why I don't live in that state anymore.
All I can say is hang in there and "keep the positive thought". Good luck with your ordeal, and a few prayers don't hurt either.
RE: I would have to say YES!
Lonnie,
This is not a "rub-in", but luckily here in Arkansas they did away with vehicle inspections a few years ago. The police agencies keep tabs on vehicles and can pull you over if they suspect something with your vehicle, although they are pretty lenient.
Your situation reminds me of New Jersey, where I came from before I moved to the Ozarks 11 years ago. Nothing but a big rip-off. It would take me pages upon pages about some of the ordeals I've went through as well as many others that I know. Just another reason why I don't live in that state anymore.
All I can say is hang in there and "keep the positive thought". Good luck with your ordeal, and a few prayers don't hurt either.
RE: I would have to say YES!
RE: I would have to say YES!
We've got the same crap Cali does, here in the Philly 'burbs. Dyno with Probe and visual. Luckily, most of the guys around here don't know a 3rd cat from an X pipe. But if it ever changes, oh boy!
PA isn't as strict as Cali, but it's only a matter of time. God forbid we have a little fun with our cars.
RE: I would have to say YES!
We've got the same crap Cali does, here in the Philly 'burbs. Dyno with Probe and visual. Luckily, most of the guys around here don't know a 3rd cat from an X pipe. But if it ever changes, oh boy!
PA isn't as strict as Cali, but it's only a matter of time. God forbid we have a little fun with our cars.