Why gen 2's run poorly

P

Ponyfreak

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As we all know it is no big secret that most Gen 2's do not run as fast as gen 1's. None-the-less there are a few exceptions as we all know. But as far as fast gen 1's vs fast gen 2's 95% of the time the gen 1's are quicker animals. Here is one reason that i think this is the case.
As many know, the intakes are one of the few things that vary from gen 1 to gen 2 mark VIII;s. Poeple with Gen 1 cars ahve installed a gen 2 itnake on their car and actually lost HP, and their trap speed and ET in the 1/4 mile has suffered.

Recently Daniel R sent me a gen 2 intake. Once I had the intake I began to dissassemble it and see what made it tick. This is what i found


http://www.markviii.org/~ponyfreak/gen2intake/gen2intake 001.jpg
In this first picture we have a nomal Gen 2 intake viewed from above. It has the TB adapter piece removed.

http://www.markviii.org/~ponyfreak/gen2intake/gen2intake 002.jpg
This is a pic from the bottom of the plenum. I cut the bottom off of the intake to see how it was put togeather.
Everything looks ok here.
http://www.markviii.org/~ponyfreak/gen2intake/gen2intake 007.jpg


These next series of pics are of the runner tract. As you will see in some of these pics of how the runners are either Primary or secondary runner biased. This is a piss poor design. I believe that this affects flow and does not keep the velocity of the air even close from cyl to cyl. unfortunatly one of the pics came out a little dark, but pic #6 is labled to show you what I am talking about. Some cyl's the bais seems really awful, while other cyl's the flow is divided up in half as the cobra intake does.

IF you go back to the picture #1, you can see this biased even clearer when viewing the intak from the top.
http://www.markviii.org/~ponyfreak/gen2intake/gen2intake 003.jpg
http://www.markviii.org/~ponyfreak/gen2intake/gen2intake 004.jpg
http://www.markviii.org/~ponyfreak/gen2intake/gen2intake 005.jpg
http://www.markviii.org/~ponyfreak/gen2intake/gen2intake 006.jpg


Overall I personally feel that this intake was piss poor engineered. A stock or slightly modified cobra intake would most likely WAY outperform anything this intake could offer. Modified or not.

Let me hear what you have to say.
 
RE: Why gen 2's run poorly

I have a gen 2. Slowness sucks. What do i have to do and how much will it cost? as far as the intake goes, at least.

BTW, that's a cool sig, Eli.
 
RE: Why gen 2's run poorly

im interested too. I was going to ask about switching to a gen1 style, but I figure If im going to do the work, I might as well do it right. Bring on the Cobra Intake, this sounds like a fun project.
 
RE: Why gen 2's run poorly

there is still power in gen2's but you just gota know how to work them also a little thing called nitrous oxide helps.
 
RE: Why gen 2's run poorly

actually, on second though, I dont want to really have to deal with the clearance issues, that ould appear to be worse in the gen2 cars. Joe- what would it take to switch over to a first gen intake setup on my '97??
 
RE: Why gen 2's run poorly

actually, on second though, I dont want to really have to deal with the clearance issues, that ould appear to be worse in the gen2 cars. Joe- what would it take to switch over to a first gen intake setup on my '97??
Click to expand...

I thought there was MORE clearance under the gen 2 hood. Is the cobra manifold any taller than a gen 2 manifold?
 
RE: Why gen 2's run poorly

changing a gen2 car to a gen1 intake is like going back in time. if you are going to upgrade go with a ported version or a cobra intake. a cobra intake is a easy swap and will net more power then the other swaps. just just likes gen1 a lot because they have a lot of potentional and he know where he can find the power at. my solutions to everything is still spray it.
 
RE: Why gen 2's run poorly

well, i cant implement the forced induction or the N02 plans untill my warantee it up!! How does a Hugely ported Gen1 (like the ones that joe has been doing) size up to the Cobra intake.
 
RE: Why gen 2's run poorly

IF you have a Gen 2 car, run the Cobra intake. It is easy, and they work really well. Get a Cobra, then port it out, and maybe shorten the runners an inch or two. That will give your n/a car quite a boost in power.
 
RE: Why gen 2's run poorly

Maybe you could do a seminar at Carlisle, and show us all how to port intakes?

And what all is needed to swap to a cobra intake? Do you need the IMRC's (or whatever they're called with that intake) out of the Cobra, or will it bolt up to the ones from the mark? What about the throttle body? And how much should i expect to pay for all this?

And wouldn't shortening the runners be counterproductive on an N/A car?
 
RE: Why gen 2's run poorly

Joe, this is amazing, I must have picked up on this thread subconsciously, because last Sunday I went and got the Cobra Intake and not only that but the blower, intercooler, hell I bought the whole engine.

It looks exactly like this one:

http://members.cox.net/robpuri/03.ford.svt.mustang.eng.500.jpg

Then I started thinking about what was going to happen with my AOD Transmission channeling 575 HP, I was concerned so I got the Cobra's clutch and 6 speed as well. Now with all the power I needed gears and limited slip so I went with the Cobra 3.55 gears and limited slip IRS. Plus I bought another pair of the Bilsteins for the 03 Cobra. Only this time I didn't want to go through installing them, so I got them pre-installed and they look like this:

(I don't recommend this for the faint hearted - most are probably better off with a few parts on their gen 2)



http://members.cox.net/robpuri/cobra2k3small_weba.jpg

It just didn't make sense to put all those Cobra parts on my poor, slow, aging gen 2. First of all, in my state it is illegal. Secondly, it's cheaper to buy the whole car than buy all the parts. So I left them where they belong this time, on the 03 Cobra! I bought the whole enchilada...

When I put the pedal to the metal it's impossible not to grin broadly or laugh out loud. It would have cost me approximately $18,000 or more to get this kind of performance from my 98 Mark VIII LSC. Combined with what I have in it already that would have exceeded the total amount I paid for the new 03 Cobra.

If I start to miss the leather, the beautiful ride, the comfortable seats or anything about the Mark VIII, I just hit the gas and grin and it's all forgotten. I am a very happy man now. I use the Mark VIII for relaxed transportation and when I feel the need I light up the Cobra & Zoom zoom zoom......


Robin

http://members.cox.net/robpuri/LSCRRCorrected.jpg
 
RE: Why gen 2's run poorly

i would not cute runners on a cobra intake for a mild markVIII. i would just gasket match it and clean it up a little that should get you a good amount of power but you dont want to move the rpm band up to much because you need a exhaust to match and more then just a couple mods. for a gen2 go cobra or ported stock for a gen1 go really ported stock or cobra either way the cobra intake is a good alternative.
 
RE: Why gen 2's run poorly

ok, so cobra is the way. Best place to get them? FPN? what else exactly do i need?? BTW, Im building an exhaust. So what exactly do you mean "to match"? what if any specific characteristics should I bee looking for here?
 
RE: Why gen 2's run poorly

ok, this is what I found at Fordpartsnetwork.com

http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/300000-300999/300629_18_full.jpg

Im assuming that all i need both the upper and lower intake? is there another way to get this without spending $1500 on a freaking intake?? Is this even the right thing?? Im assuming it is because in '98 the cobra was the only thing that the 4.6 DOHC went into, right??

Will my throttle body bolt up, or will I need the cobra one as well?

Will I still have Cruise Control if I do this swap??

How does anyone feel about this:

http://images.cardomain.com/member_img_a/300000-300999/300629_19_full.jpg

'01 Bullit Intake w/ cobra throttle body, all the gaskets and some backets and a bunch of other stuff
 
RE: Why gen 2's run poorly

Bullit will not fit, that is for a SOHC. The best place to find a cobra unit is on corral, or off of ebay. Look to pay around 350$ for one. Eli Hoffman jsut sold his I believe for 350$. If you have a gen 2 it should be an easy swap. The IMRC's for the gen 2 intake and the cobra are the same. I think the fuel rails are the same as well. You will have to double check with someone that has done that swap before. I think Robman will be doing the swap soon..

Yes you will still have cruise control, and all your other stuff. I think the gen 2 hood clears the cobra manifold as well. Daniel can anwser this for sure. If you have 4.10's in your mark VIII as well as some other mods, I would consider modifying the intake. There are a couple people that sell intakes that have been modded, Pauls high performance, and SRS are just two that come to mind. However they want something like 750$ + core charge for their work. IF you are handy with tools I can tell you how to mod your intake.

Many of you will remember the cobra unit that I modded for my pearl car.

http://www.markviii.org/~ponyfreak/Cobra intake/cobra intake pics 005.jpg
http://www.markviii.org/~ponyfreak/Cobra intake/cobra intake pics 010.jpg
 
RE: Why gen 2's run poorly

Maybe you could do a seminar at Carlisle, and show us all how to port intakes?

And what all is needed to swap to a cobra intake? Do you need the IMRC's (or whatever they're called with that intake) out of the Cobra, or will it bolt up to the ones from the mark? What about the throttle body? And how much should i expect to pay for all this?

And wouldn't shortening the runners be counterproductive on an N/A car?
Click to expand...


Porting an intake takes too long, and you have to have the tools to do it. I will do a seminar about cam shim installation though.

Yes you need IMRC's, but the gen 2 IMRC's are the same as cobra's
Yes your Throttle body will bolts right up.
See other post on costs.
 
RE: Why gen 2's run poorly

Do not even consider going witha Gen 1 intake on a Gen 2. That would cost your an arm and a leg to revert to all that stuff. Just go with a Cobra manifold.
 
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