2-3 accumulator
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MonsterMark
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RE: 2-3 accumulator
I think I got a 2-3 spring and plunger new in the box if you need it. 1/2 price. Let me know. BTW. I saw you heading up National Ave the other day. Looking good with that big hood and all.
'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
I think I got a 2-3 spring and plunger new in the box if you need it. 1/2 price. Let me know. BTW. I saw you heading up National Ave the other day. Looking good with that big hood and all.
'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
MaddShadez
Registered
RE: 2-3 accumulator
Transmission fluid, the fluid presses against the piston therefore routing fluid the the appropriate places and allowing you tho shift. The springs slow down the piston, therefore slowing your shift. Taking them out allows the piston to move faster = faster shifts. And in case you were wondering, drilling the separator plate allows more fluid to flow, allowing areas to fill up faster than normal, therefore faster shifts.
Transmission fluid, the fluid presses against the piston therefore routing fluid the the appropriate places and allowing you tho shift. The springs slow down the piston, therefore slowing your shift. Taking them out allows the piston to move faster = faster shifts. And in case you were wondering, drilling the separator plate allows more fluid to flow, allowing areas to fill up faster than normal, therefore faster shifts.
RE: 2-3 accumulator
Cool. Thanks for that. Is 'faster' synonomous with 'harder'? I did the 1-2 upgrade and the shift is noticeably 'harder' between that shift. So the upgraded springs are actually WEAKER than the stock ones? The whole idea is to minimize clutch plate slippage, right? I'm assuming in a really smooooth shift that the plates are slipping a little, grinding each other down and contaminating the fluid among other things.
Cool. Thanks for that. Is 'faster' synonomous with 'harder'? I did the 1-2 upgrade and the shift is noticeably 'harder' between that shift. So the upgraded springs are actually WEAKER than the stock ones? The whole idea is to minimize clutch plate slippage, right? I'm assuming in a really smooooth shift that the plates are slipping a little, grinding each other down and contaminating the fluid among other things.
MaddShadez
Registered
RE: 2-3 accumulator
Faster, harder, it's all the same depending on what your doin right?
Yes the new springs are softer (not really weaker) therefore allowing the piston to move faster. When I first did the 1-2 I used the new springs, and it was a little harder, but last year i took them out, and it's much harder (although not in a bad way).
Faster, harder, it's all the same depending on what your doin right?
Yes the new springs are softer (not really weaker) therefore allowing the piston to move faster. When I first did the 1-2 I used the new springs, and it was a little harder, but last year i took them out, and it's much harder (although not in a bad way).
RE: 2-3 accumulator
Worse than that IMO, the way the OEM shift program is such that the shift is engaging one gear while simultaneously still engaged in the other gear. In other words the 1-2 shift is engaging the 2nd gear clutch while the first gear clutch is still engaged. You can imagine the wear and heat this produces. The quicker a.k.a. harder shifts are a result of minimizing this 'overlap' period. This is actually better for the most part up to the point of shock loading the driveline components on extreme acceleration. This is precisely why manual 1-2 shifts are discouraged for stock drivetrain setups. A manual shift virtually eliminates any overlap and of course since it is usually done at WOT, the shock loads can be extreme to the point of causing damage to the transmission and driveline.
Worse than that IMO, the way the OEM shift program is such that the shift is engaging one gear while simultaneously still engaged in the other gear. In other words the 1-2 shift is engaging the 2nd gear clutch while the first gear clutch is still engaged. You can imagine the wear and heat this produces. The quicker a.k.a. harder shifts are a result of minimizing this 'overlap' period. This is actually better for the most part up to the point of shock loading the driveline components on extreme acceleration. This is precisely why manual 1-2 shifts are discouraged for stock drivetrain setups. A manual shift virtually eliminates any overlap and of course since it is usually done at WOT, the shock loads can be extreme to the point of causing damage to the transmission and driveline.
RE: 2-3 accumulator
So, driller, if we eliminate the overlap entirely, doesnt that increase the shock load during automatic shifting, when the accumulators have been "modded"?
Wouldn't it be just as bad to leave it in drive, mash the pedal, and let the tranny shift, as say, mashing the throttle in first, and then manually shifting to 2nd?
How much power do we need to wheels before we start seeing the effects of "detrimental shock load" on our driveshafts, carrier, tailhousings, etc.
BTW, I haven't done my valve body dance. Still undecided if I want to go with the jerry mod or not. I don't figure to be putting over 350 to the ground, unmless I hit the lottery, and in that case, it's 03 cobra time anyway....but I digress, I've got all the parts. Just need fluid, and clear day, after I've made up my mind.
So, driller, if we eliminate the overlap entirely, doesnt that increase the shock load during automatic shifting, when the accumulators have been "modded"?
Wouldn't it be just as bad to leave it in drive, mash the pedal, and let the tranny shift, as say, mashing the throttle in first, and then manually shifting to 2nd?
How much power do we need to wheels before we start seeing the effects of "detrimental shock load" on our driveshafts, carrier, tailhousings, etc.
BTW, I haven't done my valve body dance. Still undecided if I want to go with the jerry mod or not. I don't figure to be putting over 350 to the ground, unmless I hit the lottery, and in that case, it's 03 cobra time anyway....but I digress, I've got all the parts. Just need fluid, and clear day, after I've made up my mind.
RE: 2-3 accumulator
>So, driller, if we eliminate the overlap entirely, doesnt that
>increase the shock load during automatic shifting, when the
>accumulators have been "modded"?
Modding the accumulators(I presume you mean removing the bias springs) does quicken the shift but does not eliminate the overlap entirely(you would need to eliminate the accumulators entirely). Therefore the shock load is obviously increased but I didn't mean to imply it is necessarily all bad. The flip side is the overlap is dramatically reduced.
>Wouldn't it be just as bad to leave it in drive, mash the pedal, and
>let the tranny shift, as say, mashing the throttle in first, and
>then manually shifting to 2nd?
No, IMO the WOT auto 1-2 shift is not the same as the WOT manual 1-2 shift. BTW the biggest reason for the manual shift as I know is not to shift 'faster' but to shift at a optimum rpm to make the most from the power curve of the engine.
>How much power do we need to wheels before we start seeing the
>effects of "detrimental shock load" on our driveshafts, carrier,
>tailhousings, etc.
Suffice to say, usually significantly more than stock. If you're building power up at the flywheel it only stands to reason the parts following are going to need improvements also. IMO the stock transmission is the weakest link. The good news is these transmissions can be built to take it and I believe many will tell you the '93 driveshafts are reliable - and the differential and IRS are as good as they get(besides the choice of gears).
>So, driller, if we eliminate the overlap entirely, doesnt that
>increase the shock load during automatic shifting, when the
>accumulators have been "modded"?
Modding the accumulators(I presume you mean removing the bias springs) does quicken the shift but does not eliminate the overlap entirely(you would need to eliminate the accumulators entirely). Therefore the shock load is obviously increased but I didn't mean to imply it is necessarily all bad. The flip side is the overlap is dramatically reduced.
>Wouldn't it be just as bad to leave it in drive, mash the pedal, and
>let the tranny shift, as say, mashing the throttle in first, and
>then manually shifting to 2nd?
No, IMO the WOT auto 1-2 shift is not the same as the WOT manual 1-2 shift. BTW the biggest reason for the manual shift as I know is not to shift 'faster' but to shift at a optimum rpm to make the most from the power curve of the engine.
>How much power do we need to wheels before we start seeing the
>effects of "detrimental shock load" on our driveshafts, carrier,
>tailhousings, etc.
Suffice to say, usually significantly more than stock. If you're building power up at the flywheel it only stands to reason the parts following are going to need improvements also. IMO the stock transmission is the weakest link. The good news is these transmissions can be built to take it and I believe many will tell you the '93 driveshafts are reliable - and the differential and IRS are as good as they get(besides the choice of gears).
MaddShadez
Registered
RE: 2-3 accumulator
BTW just to note, I read somewhere i think it was jerry's thesis, that after a certain year (98 i think) they strengthened some diode or something making it possible to do all the manual 1-2 shidts you want. It just so happens my tranny was built after than, and I am a happy camper....
BTW just to note, I read somewhere i think it was jerry's thesis, that after a certain year (98 i think) they strengthened some diode or something making it possible to do all the manual 1-2 shidts you want. It just so happens my tranny was built after than, and I am a happy camper....
RE: 2-3 accumulator
probably somewhere on this page:
http://www.baumannengineering.com/aodecat.htm
Thats what Geno recommended, their shift kits. I was thinking of buying that mechanical diode.
probably somewhere on this page:
http://www.baumannengineering.com/aodecat.htm
Thats what Geno recommended, their shift kits. I was thinking of buying that mechanical diode.