Greenemachine
Registered
what arethe odds that this would be caused my the coil pack? that coil park houses 1,3,5,and 6. however cyl 6 doesn't seem to have any problem. all 3 that are missfiring are the first 3 on the same side.
misfire in cyl 1,3,5
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Greenemachine
Registered
RE: misfire in cyl 1,3,5
I don't think 1,3,5 are on the same side of the engine. but I know they're the same coil pack
I don't think 1,3,5 are on the same side of the engine. but I know they're the same coil pack
M
MonsterMark
Guest
RE: misfire in cyl 1,3,5
"Check and clean the electrical harness connector." Please expound if you may... Thank you.
'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
"Check and clean the electrical harness connector." Please expound if you may... Thank you.
'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
RE: misfire in cyl 1,3,5
Expound forthcoming:
---------------------------------------
Ignition Coil Packs
Each ignition coil pack contains two separate ignition coils which
are controlled by the ignition control module through two coil leads.
Each ignition coil fires two spark plugs simultaneously; one plug on
the compression stroke and one on the exhaust stroke. The majority of
the energy is used by the spark plug on the compression stroke. The
spark plug fired on the exhaust stroke uses very little of the
ignition coil's stored energy. Since these two spark plugs are
connected in series, the firing voltage of one plug will be negative
with respect to ground, while the voltage of the other will be
positive with respect to ground. Refer to the «Powertrain
Control/Emissions Diagnosis Manual» for additional information on
spark plug polarity.
NOTE:
The numbers on the coil tower terminals shown in the following
illustration are engine cylinder numbers. These numbers are shown for
information only and are not shown on towers. Actual identification
labels are shown in View A. The spark plug wire attached to a
particular tower should be attached at the other end to the spark
plug for the same numbered cylinder.
The RH coil pack is mounted on a bracket attached to the front cover.
The LH coil pack is mounted on the coil/power steering reservoir
bracket attached to the front cover. There are two cylinder numbers
on each coil terminal to allow the coil packs to be interchangeable.
http://mark8.org/users/driller/pics/coils.jpg
-----------------------------------------------
Note the 3 pin harness plug on each coil. On the right coil pack,
pins 1 to 3 are coil 2, battery, and coil 1. On the left coil pack,
pins 1 to 3 are coil 4, battery, and coil 3. Check and clean
these electrical harness connectors. Make sure they fit snugly
and use electrical contact cleaner on the pins in the coil packs and
sockets of the wire plugs.
Expound complete.
Expound forthcoming:
---------------------------------------
Ignition Coil Packs
Each ignition coil pack contains two separate ignition coils which
are controlled by the ignition control module through two coil leads.
Each ignition coil fires two spark plugs simultaneously; one plug on
the compression stroke and one on the exhaust stroke. The majority of
the energy is used by the spark plug on the compression stroke. The
spark plug fired on the exhaust stroke uses very little of the
ignition coil's stored energy. Since these two spark plugs are
connected in series, the firing voltage of one plug will be negative
with respect to ground, while the voltage of the other will be
positive with respect to ground. Refer to the «Powertrain
Control/Emissions Diagnosis Manual» for additional information on
spark plug polarity.
NOTE:
The numbers on the coil tower terminals shown in the following
illustration are engine cylinder numbers. These numbers are shown for
information only and are not shown on towers. Actual identification
labels are shown in View A. The spark plug wire attached to a
particular tower should be attached at the other end to the spark
plug for the same numbered cylinder.
The RH coil pack is mounted on a bracket attached to the front cover.
The LH coil pack is mounted on the coil/power steering reservoir
bracket attached to the front cover. There are two cylinder numbers
on each coil terminal to allow the coil packs to be interchangeable.
http://mark8.org/users/driller/pics/coils.jpg
-----------------------------------------------
Note the 3 pin harness plug on each coil. On the right coil pack,
pins 1 to 3 are coil 2, battery, and coil 1. On the left coil pack,
pins 1 to 3 are coil 4, battery, and coil 3. Check and clean
these electrical harness connectors. Make sure they fit snugly
and use electrical contact cleaner on the pins in the coil packs and
sockets of the wire plugs.
Expound complete.
Greenemachine
Registered
RE: misfire in cyl 1,3,5
I changed the coil tonight and cleaned the contacts bbut I still get some missfire. do they usually go in pairs? there still the stock with 120 thousand miles.
I changed the coil tonight and cleaned the contacts bbut I still get some missfire. do they usually go in pairs? there still the stock with 120 thousand miles.
M
MonsterMark
Guest
RE: misfire in cyl 1,3,5
John, thank you for the excellent delineation and dissertation. It will come in handy and is worthy of the archives.
'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
John, thank you for the excellent delineation and dissertation. It will come in handy and is worthy of the archives.
'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
unstoppable
Registered
RE: misfire in cyl 1,3,5
Its either the pack itself or the EDIS module.If you changed the pack and it is still missing I would lean toward the EDIS.Go ahead and replace the second coil pack,and hope that fixes it.Because the EDIS is fairly pricey.Around 350 I believe.
Its either the pack itself or the EDIS module.If you changed the pack and it is still missing I would lean toward the EDIS.Go ahead and replace the second coil pack,and hope that fixes it.Because the EDIS is fairly pricey.Around 350 I believe.
RE: misfire in cyl 1,3,5
If the other coil pack does not fix her up, Ray Urso is selling some parts off of his 93, and I am almost sure he would sell you an EDIS module for a lot less than 350$. Swapping out the EDIS is super easy to do. One of the few things that are easy to do on these cars.
If the other coil pack does not fix her up, Ray Urso is selling some parts off of his 93, and I am almost sure he would sell you an EDIS module for a lot less than 350$. Swapping out the EDIS is super easy to do. One of the few things that are easy to do on these cars.
Greenemachine
Registered
RE: misfire in cyl 1,3,5
if it was the edis, wouldn't it make more sense to put a msd ignition or something better than stock. I'm not looking to s/c my car anytime soon so would it even be worth it? I'll change the other pack cause it's not expensive, but if that doesn't work. what is a way I can check the edis tos ee if its opperating properlly. thanks
oh and the water pump and alt have to be the easiest things to change on this car.
if it was the edis, wouldn't it make more sense to put a msd ignition or something better than stock. I'm not looking to s/c my car anytime soon so would it even be worth it? I'll change the other pack cause it's not expensive, but if that doesn't work. what is a way I can check the edis tos ee if its opperating properlly. thanks
oh and the water pump and alt have to be the easiest things to change on this car.
unstoppable
Registered
RE: misfire in cyl 1,3,5
You cannot replace the EDIS with an MSD box.You CAN use one in conjunction with it.But the EEC uses the EDIS to basically find out where the crank and cam sensors are and then it uses it to tell the coil packs when to fire.
As far as testing it goes I dont know other than replacing it.
You cannot replace the EDIS with an MSD box.You CAN use one in conjunction with it.But the EEC uses the EDIS to basically find out where the crank and cam sensors are and then it uses it to tell the coil packs when to fire.
As far as testing it goes I dont know other than replacing it.
RE: misfire in cyl 1,3,5
I don't know if this is something that can somehow be related to our mark engines but in my 130k mile Windstar with the 3.8 liter engine, I was getting misfire codes and they kept coming back after changing the plugs, wires, and the coil pack.
Somebody had put some cheap plug wires on the van that did not clip to the coil very well and one must have been off for quite a while because the end of the wire was all crusted over and so was the inside of the connector on the coil for that cylinder. The thing must have been arcing a lot because a hole was burned through the coil pack so I thought that a new one would have corrected the problem but it did not.
An internet search turned up some interesting info regarding carbon clogged in the EGR ports underneath the upper intake and causing the misfire codes for the 3.8 liter engine. I pulled the upper intake off and sure enough, all the ports were clogged with carbon and once I cleaned them out, the codes have not returned and I was finally able to pass the state inspection. Again, I have no idea if this scenario is possible in our mark engines.
I don't know if this is something that can somehow be related to our mark engines but in my 130k mile Windstar with the 3.8 liter engine, I was getting misfire codes and they kept coming back after changing the plugs, wires, and the coil pack.
Somebody had put some cheap plug wires on the van that did not clip to the coil very well and one must have been off for quite a while because the end of the wire was all crusted over and so was the inside of the connector on the coil for that cylinder. The thing must have been arcing a lot because a hole was burned through the coil pack so I thought that a new one would have corrected the problem but it did not.
An internet search turned up some interesting info regarding carbon clogged in the EGR ports underneath the upper intake and causing the misfire codes for the 3.8 liter engine. I pulled the upper intake off and sure enough, all the ports were clogged with carbon and once I cleaned them out, the codes have not returned and I was finally able to pass the state inspection. Again, I have no idea if this scenario is possible in our mark engines.
Greenemachine
Registered
RE: misfire in cyl 1,3,5
I just pulled most of my plugs and the electrodes are all white.
I just pulled most of my plugs and the electrodes are all white.
Greenemachine
Registered
RE: misfire in cyl 1,3,5
the edis that you guys are refering to. would that be the same as the icm. I called the dealer and they said $358 bucks for it.
the edis that you guys are refering to. would that be the same as the icm. I called the dealer and they said $358 bucks for it.
RE: misfire in cyl 1,3,5
I hope this helps. From the manual:
Ignition Control Module
The ignition control module (ICM) is a custom microprocessor-based
thick film electronic module. The ignition control module receives
engine position and speed information from the crankshaft position
sensor, and desired spark advance information from the powertrain
control module supplied spark output (SPOUT) signal. The ignition
control module uses this information to direct which coil to fire,
and controls the turn on and turn off of that coil to achieve the
correct dwell and spark advance. The ignition control module also
provides a synthesized Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) signal. The PIP
signal is used by the powertrain control module for engine speed
information and fuel injector timing. The ignition diagnosis monitor
(IDM) signal sends electronic ignition system failure information to
the powertrain control module, where it is stored for use during
diagnostic test mode. The IDM also provides the signal to drive the
tachometer.
The ignition control module is located underneath the LH shock tower
cover in the engine compartment.
http://mark8.org/users/driller/pics/icm.jpg
I hope this helps. From the manual:
Ignition Control Module
The ignition control module (ICM) is a custom microprocessor-based
thick film electronic module. The ignition control module receives
engine position and speed information from the crankshaft position
sensor, and desired spark advance information from the powertrain
control module supplied spark output (SPOUT) signal. The ignition
control module uses this information to direct which coil to fire,
and controls the turn on and turn off of that coil to achieve the
correct dwell and spark advance. The ignition control module also
provides a synthesized Profile Ignition Pickup (PIP) signal. The PIP
signal is used by the powertrain control module for engine speed
information and fuel injector timing. The ignition diagnosis monitor
(IDM) signal sends electronic ignition system failure information to
the powertrain control module, where it is stored for use during
diagnostic test mode. The IDM also provides the signal to drive the
tachometer.
The ignition control module is located underneath the LH shock tower
cover in the engine compartment.
http://mark8.org/users/driller/pics/icm.jpg
unstoppable
Registered
RE: misfire in cyl 1,3,5
Very detailed way of saying what I said in plain english.Thanks though Driller.If that doesn't paint a picture than nothing will.
Very detailed way of saying what I said in plain english.Thanks though Driller.If that doesn't paint a picture than nothing will.
Greenemachine
Registered
RE: misfire in cyl 1,3,5
I have the factory service manual. I bought it from some publisher for a hundred bucks. It has alot of great info in there... however when it comes to the troubleshooting it says I should buy another book. that really gets to me.
I have the factory service manual. I bought it from some publisher for a hundred bucks. It has alot of great info in there... however when it comes to the troubleshooting it says I should buy another book. that really gets to me.