It Does What, Bubba?

HOTLNC

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My wife and I have been collecting information about the new Ford Escape Hybrid. We figure that the time is coming that we will have to get onto the electric bandwagon, maybe we can ease the cold turkey habit by doing a hybrid. Later on, as total electrics come along, it won’t be so hard dropping black gold derivatives altogether.

It looks like the Escape hybrid was the car for her. Up until last week, when I read some more details in Automotive Design and Production magazine.

“…Interior occupants aren’t always so lucky because the gasoline engine shuts off when the vehicle is stopped for just about any length of time. Which means the air conditioning compressor isn’t being driven, and the amount of cooling air coming into the cabin decreases quite rapidly in hot weather….”

Say what? You’re telling me the AIR CONDITIONER turns OFF when you stop for a light or for traffic? In Texas? With 100 PLUS outside!!

Well, put it this way. Unless the car comes complete with a brightly colored switch near the driver that will allow you to OVERRIDE that particular fuel saving feature, they ain’t gonna be selling my wife or I one of those cars.

Any probably not any one else living in Southern states….
 
RE: It Does What, Bubba?

Interesting feature!

The Prius has my technological vote. We rented one for wide load escort duty and it was pretty cool. Hard to get used to not starting the engine though. I only test drove it for curiosity though, but it's definitely NOT a performance minded individual's car.

I'll have to look into the Escape.
 
RE: It Does What, Bubba?

We have a regular gas powered Escape and love it. That sucks if the air cuts out while sitting at a long light. I read the hybrid got 38mpg while driving through NYC on a day long test. It went through both morning and evening rush hour during the test and still got 38mph.
 
RE: Lexus

RE: Lexus

I'm guessing that it too shuts off the AC at stops. I'm saying that because of the "backwards" highway/city mileage (just like the Ford):

"While the 400h achieves 36 city/31 highway mpg and meets California's Super-Ultra Low Emission Vehicle (SULEV) requirements, it is the power...."
 
RE: It Does What, Bubba?

Of course you can override it! And by the way, the switch is yellow. The rotary mode control knob looks identical to a conventional Escape's, except that the MAX A/C, Defrost, and Defrost/Floor positions are coloured yellow. On these settings, the gas engine will operate continuously, overriding the hybrid engine shutdown, allowing the compressor to be driven constantly.

Regular A/C and A/C/Recirculate allows compressor engagement only when the gas engine cycles on for better fuel economy, and yes, the cabin will get warmer during long "idle" times.
 
RE: It Does What, Bubba?

Overriding the engine shutting off while idling kind of defeats the whole purpose of a hybrid, because that probably is where they save the most fuel.
 
RE: It Does What, Bubba?

It certainly does, doesn't it?

But now we get into the philosophy of conservation. Do we conserve non-renewable resources and create less pollution or do we keep our asses at exactly the temperature we like best?
 
RE: It Does What, Bubba?

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
Overriding the engine shutting off while idling kind of defeats the whole purpose of a hybrid, because that probably is where they save the most fuel.
[/div]

They save the most gas by having the electrical engine do all the work to 25mph. And as well as using regenerative braking. But those escapes will run you 26.300 ++ since dealers will charge a premium.
 
RE: It Does What, Bubba?

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]Overriding the engine shutting off while idling kind of defeats the whole purpose of a hybrid, because that probably is where they save the most fuel. [/div]They save the most gas by having the electrical engine do all the work to 25mph. And as well as using regenerative braking. But those escapes will run you 26.300 ++ since dealers will charge a premium.
[/div]

Hence the reason you don't want to be running the engine at idle and lower speed stop and go traffic just to run the AC.
I work with a woman who has a Pirus, she does not drive aggressive and is getting about 46 MPG in mixed driving.
VW has a diesel that gets better highway mileage.
I think with the cost and complexity of the hybrids they leave a lot to be desired.
 
RE: It Does What, Bubba?

Why does Ford have this system to cut off the AC? I know on the Prius the AC is powered by its own electric motor separate from the gas or electric drive system, so it can actually be on if the car is shut off, which I think is an awesome feature. Why wouldn't they do this on all cars, much less all hybrid cars?
 
RE: It Does What, Bubba?

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... I work with a woman who has a Pirus, she does not drive aggressive and is getting about 46 MPG in mixed driving.
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Our experience with the Prius showed highway fuel mileage consistently in the 50-60 mpg range, one trip approached 70 mpg. While typical fuel mileage on a conventional automobile may vary 2-3 mpg, on the hybrid we saw a 5-10 mpg variance.

I've had vehicles that only achieved 10 mpg fuel economy, these things may vary in fuel mileage by that much alone!
 
RE: It Does What, Bubba?

The problem is the motor. The electric motor used to drive a compressor needs to be about 5HP -- not a small motor. There is another issue --- how do you pass air across the condenser? Another motor is needed to do that. Overall, the AC could be "wasting" about 7HP of energy.

My opinion would be that the waste would be worth it. Texas heat in a non-air conditioned automobile is DEADLY.
 
RE: It Does What, Bubba?

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
The problem is the motor. The electric motor used to drive a compressor needs to be about 5HP -- not a small motor. There is another issue --- how do you pass air across the condenser? Another motor is needed to do that. Overall, the AC could be "wasting" about 7HP of energy. My opinion would be that the waste would be worth it. Texas heat in a non-air conditioned automobile is DEADLY.
[/div]

The fan in the Mark is electric, don't see why it can't be the same thing and run off the battery as well as the AC compressor via the drive motors. The electric motors in these things have to be rated well above 5HP. Also, electric motors are much more efficient and the can shut on and off easily as needed to run the compressor.

What did the pioneers do without AC in the old days? God bless Willis Haviland Carrier.
 
RE: It Does What, Bubba?

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]... I work with a woman who has a Pirus, she does not drive aggressive and is getting about 46 MPG in mixed driving. [/div]Our experience with the Prius showed highway fuel mileage consistently in the 50-60 mpg range, one trip approached 70 mpg. While typical fuel mileage on a conventional automobile may vary 2-3 mpg, on the hybrid we saw a 5-10 mpg variance.I've had vehicles that only achieved 10 mpg fuel economy, these things may vary in fuel mileage by that much alone!
[/div]

I am sure just cruising on flat highway they get their rated MPG, but I live in an urban area so the mixed driving is not as good. I bet if you rip out all the hybrid equipment you would get just as good if not better MPG; just cruising on the highway only. I think fuel cells and full electric cars are where we should be going to.
 
RE: It Does What, Bubba?

Steve,

acorrding to a write up on the Escape Hybrid it got 38mpg while driving in NYC during both Moring and afternoon rush hour traffic. When I drive in NYC traffic I get 19mpg with my v6 Escape. That is a big difference. I'd buy a hybrid Escape, except for the whole A/C thing. My wife grew up in t. Louis and even though it doen't get as hot here in Ny, she still can't live without A/C.
 
RE: It Does What, Bubba?

John, I think these hybrids are best in urban driving because the engine is shut off most of the time when standing still except to recharge the batteries. But that A/C will get you like you said, and I would not want to give that up as well. If I lived out in the cuntry I would get one of the new diesels.

Also I can guess the next ricer mod with these vehicles will be. Any one who been in one will tell you they are very quite, especially when running on the electric motors only. I can just see a device that samples the sound of an Ferrari and then plays it via an external speaker when you are driving. :)
 
RE: It Does What, Bubba?

As the only Hybrid Repair Certified tech in our area, I have driven, PDI'd and prepped a few for Canadian Launch Date.

Jerry, let me assure you, that except for the sound (or lack thereof) and a couple of extra indicators on the dash, you would never know you were driving a hybrid. It has the power, the handling, and the feel of a conventional 3.0L Escape. You will buy something that has the familiar automobile feel you're used to. That was Ford's intent. They never intended to market a futuristic Jetsons mobile like the Prius.

By the way, the A/C thing really is a non-issue. Once the cabin is down at temp., it takes at least 5 min. of "idle" before you start to notice it warming up.
 
RE: It Does What, Bubba?

Back to philosophy again. I recently had a customer complain loudly, "There's NOTHING WORSE than driving a car with broken A/C!!!"

Nothing worse? How about watching helplessly as your children starve to death? Having your limbs blown off by a forgotten land mine? Seeing your home, crops and livelihood washed away by floods?

I'm just as guilty as anyone else, but in this part of the world, we've become too dependant upon our little luxuries. Sometimes some perspective and common sense are in order.
 
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