surge protectors
- Thread starter GR8VIII
- Start date
RE: surge protectors
There are no such beasts, sorry. I think at one time I saw a monitor that keeps tabs on charging voltage. If too high, it shuts down the current to the alternator’s field – hereby turning off the alternator.
Depending on the rating, an alternator can put out 80 to 150 AMPS of current. It does so at relatively low voltages. If the voltage spikes above 18 volts for any length of time, you have a loose connection in the field winding or the internal regulator is bad.
In most cars, the presence of a battery will regulate the maximum voltage the alternator will put out. I've heard of cases when the battery would open or a battery cable would break. The alternator would increase in voltage to over 50 volts (the diodes in the alternator will tend to start showing reverse voltage break down, limiting the output voltage.) An automotive alternator is a favorite starting point with wind power guys. The first thing you have to do is install high voltage diodes (above 150 volts) if you are trying to do a system above 24 volts.
I've never experimented with a modern car like our Marks and monitor alternator voltage with the battery disconnected. Such an experiment could be very hazardous to the car's electronics.
High voltage like this tends to be fatal on modern electronics. Most automotive equipment has internal transits suppressions. A car’s electrical system is a very dirty place. Typically the suppression they do have is not designed to shunt away large currents, only clamp high voltages. High voltage backed up with serious current has the potential to blow fuses (if your lucky) or burns semiconductors up (if not lucky.)
There are no such beasts, sorry. I think at one time I saw a monitor that keeps tabs on charging voltage. If too high, it shuts down the current to the alternator’s field – hereby turning off the alternator.
Depending on the rating, an alternator can put out 80 to 150 AMPS of current. It does so at relatively low voltages. If the voltage spikes above 18 volts for any length of time, you have a loose connection in the field winding or the internal regulator is bad.
In most cars, the presence of a battery will regulate the maximum voltage the alternator will put out. I've heard of cases when the battery would open or a battery cable would break. The alternator would increase in voltage to over 50 volts (the diodes in the alternator will tend to start showing reverse voltage break down, limiting the output voltage.) An automotive alternator is a favorite starting point with wind power guys. The first thing you have to do is install high voltage diodes (above 150 volts) if you are trying to do a system above 24 volts.
I've never experimented with a modern car like our Marks and monitor alternator voltage with the battery disconnected. Such an experiment could be very hazardous to the car's electronics.
High voltage like this tends to be fatal on modern electronics. Most automotive equipment has internal transits suppressions. A car’s electrical system is a very dirty place. Typically the suppression they do have is not designed to shunt away large currents, only clamp high voltages. High voltage backed up with serious current has the potential to blow fuses (if your lucky) or burns semiconductors up (if not lucky.)
Black Stallion
Registered
RE: surge protectors
Excellent Explanation!
Number ONE PROBLEM on vehicle electricals BAD GROUNDS!!!!
Clean your grounds, run extragrounds and use dielectric grease to help keep good connections.
Artist fomerly known as "SuperScooter"
97 Blk LSC
Excellent Explanation!
Number ONE PROBLEM on vehicle electricals BAD GROUNDS!!!!
Clean your grounds, run extragrounds and use dielectric grease to help keep good connections.
Artist fomerly known as "SuperScooter"
97 Blk LSC
RE: surge protectors
Thanks HOTLINC. What do you suppose the item listed in the link below does, besides lighten one's wallet by $43? Are you involved in creating electricity from wind power? Interesting.
http://www.aeswave.com/framedcatalog/product_tools.htm#Antizap Auto Surge Protector
Thanks HOTLINC. What do you suppose the item listed in the link below does, besides lighten one's wallet by $43? Are you involved in creating electricity from wind power? Interesting.
http://www.aeswave.com/framedcatalog/product_tools.htm#Antizap Auto Surge Protector
RE: surge protectors
Yes, I would think it is quite efficient at lightening your wallet. It would be interesting to see the specifications on this. Most automotive electronics designed FOR the car, can operate on 10 to 18 volts. Above 18 and internal protection is enabled. Below 10 and the appliance will operate at reduced specifications/or not operate at all.
Yes, I have dabbled in wind power. So far, just consulted. I haven't installed one for myself yet. One day, I tell myself. We’re right on the borderline where wind power makes sense in terms of average wind speed.
Yes, I would think it is quite efficient at lightening your wallet. It would be interesting to see the specifications on this. Most automotive electronics designed FOR the car, can operate on 10 to 18 volts. Above 18 and internal protection is enabled. Below 10 and the appliance will operate at reduced specifications/or not operate at all.
Yes, I have dabbled in wind power. So far, just consulted. I haven't installed one for myself yet. One day, I tell myself. We’re right on the borderline where wind power makes sense in terms of average wind speed.
RE: surge protectors
ALL the power supplied by the alternator (which btw the shop manual always calls a GENERATOR never alternator) MUST pass thru the battery first, no? So, can a 12volt battery EVER put out more than 12 even if it's being continuously charged at 18 or more volts? (Mine was boiling like a muther) Assuming the answer is yes, can components be damaged by a continuous upper limit charge of, say 18 volts? Maybe a surge protector that limits the battery output to <13 volts is in order.
Do you know any cool links to visit regarding the wind power operation?
Thanks, BA
ALL the power supplied by the alternator (which btw the shop manual always calls a GENERATOR never alternator) MUST pass thru the battery first, no? So, can a 12volt battery EVER put out more than 12 even if it's being continuously charged at 18 or more volts? (Mine was boiling like a muther) Assuming the answer is yes, can components be damaged by a continuous upper limit charge of, say 18 volts? Maybe a surge protector that limits the battery output to <13 volts is in order.
Do you know any cool links to visit regarding the wind power operation?
Thanks, BA
RE: surge protectors
Ok, this may be more than you want to know:
A modern car uses an alternator. My father’s 60 Chebby uses a generator. The difference is a generator generates DC (Direct Current) power. An alternator (an AC generator) generates three phase Alternating Current that has been rectified into direct current. The 120 volt power at your home’s AC outlet is single phase and NOT rectified. AC that has been rectified looks “lumpy” when viewed on an oscilloscope (an instrument that will display voltage verses time). If there was no battery in the system, the lumps would extend from 0 volts to some maximum positive voltage. By the way, the battery’s output, with the motor off will look like a straight line on an oscilloscope.
With a battery in the system, the alternator and the battery are in parallel. When the alternator’s rectified signal is connected to a battery, the battery’s voltage will fill in the valleys between the lumps. The voltage between the lumps will not get any lower than the battery voltage. The battery is supplying power to all the accessories during this time. The battery is discharging.
When the lumps are larger than the battery’s voltage, the alternator is charging the battery and supplying power to all the accessories.
The charge process is a complex electro-chemical process that gives me a headache. But if you put too much voltage on the battery (overcharge it), the battery will dump the excess energy into heat. There is a limit to how much heat the battery can withstand.
A “surge suppressor” would protect the electrical system from high voltages but it will have to be one tough hombre. It is going to have to shunt away all the excess power the alternator can develop. The cables are going to have to be able to handle large currents and the suppressor must be able to handle high temperatures. By the way NORMAL output for a good alternator is 13 to 14 volts...
An alternator can produce very high voltages. The output voltage is a function of speed and the field current. The voltage regulator’s job is to keep the battery from being overcharged. Since it cannot do anything about the RPM of the alternator, it keeps track and regulates the output voltage using the field current. A bad regulator could allow maximum field current during any RPM. Stand back, because something is gonna blow. Like I said, usually the diodes blow at about 50 volts. But by that time, who knows what else is cooked.
I’m out of date on links for wind power sites. Use any good search engine (Dog Pile) and check it out. If you can, find links to the Whole Earth Catalog. They’ve had tons of stuff in the past.
Ok, this may be more than you want to know:
A modern car uses an alternator. My father’s 60 Chebby uses a generator. The difference is a generator generates DC (Direct Current) power. An alternator (an AC generator) generates three phase Alternating Current that has been rectified into direct current. The 120 volt power at your home’s AC outlet is single phase and NOT rectified. AC that has been rectified looks “lumpy” when viewed on an oscilloscope (an instrument that will display voltage verses time). If there was no battery in the system, the lumps would extend from 0 volts to some maximum positive voltage. By the way, the battery’s output, with the motor off will look like a straight line on an oscilloscope.
With a battery in the system, the alternator and the battery are in parallel. When the alternator’s rectified signal is connected to a battery, the battery’s voltage will fill in the valleys between the lumps. The voltage between the lumps will not get any lower than the battery voltage. The battery is supplying power to all the accessories during this time. The battery is discharging.
When the lumps are larger than the battery’s voltage, the alternator is charging the battery and supplying power to all the accessories.
The charge process is a complex electro-chemical process that gives me a headache. But if you put too much voltage on the battery (overcharge it), the battery will dump the excess energy into heat. There is a limit to how much heat the battery can withstand.
A “surge suppressor” would protect the electrical system from high voltages but it will have to be one tough hombre. It is going to have to shunt away all the excess power the alternator can develop. The cables are going to have to be able to handle large currents and the suppressor must be able to handle high temperatures. By the way NORMAL output for a good alternator is 13 to 14 volts...
An alternator can produce very high voltages. The output voltage is a function of speed and the field current. The voltage regulator’s job is to keep the battery from being overcharged. Since it cannot do anything about the RPM of the alternator, it keeps track and regulates the output voltage using the field current. A bad regulator could allow maximum field current during any RPM. Stand back, because something is gonna blow. Like I said, usually the diodes blow at about 50 volts. But by that time, who knows what else is cooked.
I’m out of date on links for wind power sites. Use any good search engine (Dog Pile) and check it out. If you can, find links to the Whole Earth Catalog. They’ve had tons of stuff in the past.
magic_marker
Registered
RE: surge protectors
I don't know about others, but I really appreciated that write-up, Jerry!
Thanks for the edumacation.
I don't know about others, but I really appreciated that write-up, Jerry!
Thanks for the edumacation.
RE: surge protectors
that explanation filled in a couple gaps that I was a little fuzzy on. I knew that modern alts could produce 18-20V but never knew they could provide 50V!!!!
A couple friends of mine went to an 16V system in their competition stereo cars. The amps they were using were slightly modified to handle up to 18-19V.
I ma suprised BMW or benz has not introduced a 48V car yet. I have heard rumors for years now that they are trying to introduce cars that run at higher voltages. I am suprised an automaker has not down it yet.
that explanation filled in a couple gaps that I was a little fuzzy on. I knew that modern alts could produce 18-20V but never knew they could provide 50V!!!!
A couple friends of mine went to an 16V system in their competition stereo cars. The amps they were using were slightly modified to handle up to 18-19V.
I ma suprised BMW or benz has not introduced a 48V car yet. I have heard rumors for years now that they are trying to introduce cars that run at higher voltages. I am suprised an automaker has not down it yet.
MaddShadez
Registered
RE: surge protectors
I beleive the highest voltage dB drag wil allow you to go is 18 volts. Amps with unregulated power supplies will produce a crapload more power at 18 volts rather than 14.4 or 12.5. Just some useless info for ya.
I beleive the highest voltage dB drag wil allow you to go is 18 volts. Amps with unregulated power supplies will produce a crapload more power at 18 volts rather than 14.4 or 12.5. Just some useless info for ya.
RE: surge protectors
Yes sir. You went above and beyond the call of duty on that one and it's much appreciated. BTW, it's not more than I want to know, just more than I can understand. I'll let it soak in before querying further. I have a friend working for GE who gets exasperated with my stupid questions. (especially after a few beers)
We think of Thomas Edison as the father of (harnessing) electricity. But if you ask someone from Europe, they've never even heard of him! Imagine that.
Yes sir. You went above and beyond the call of duty on that one and it's much appreciated. BTW, it's not more than I want to know, just more than I can understand.
I'll let it soak in before querying further. I have a friend working for GE who gets exasperated with my stupid questions. (especially after a few beers) We think of Thomas Edison as the father of (harnessing) electricity. But if you ask someone from Europe, they've never even heard of him! Imagine that.