$837.93 and it still idles very, very badly

fernleybjk

Registered
I need some serious help, seriously!

I brought my '98 Mark VIII into to have the AC charged because it wasn't cooling properly. They charged the coolant and wrote that there is a small leak O-Rings at junction.

Well I left there and cool air was once again flowing. I drove it home and it seemed to be running fine. I drove it about 40 miles. My wife was driving it the next day and she told me that it was running very roughly and she had to start it a couple of times coming out of a parking lot.

I drove it into town, Reno, Nevada, which is about 30 miles from here because I do not trust the mechanics where I live. Anyway, on my way into town the check engine light began flashing. It has a PO411 code on it from previous time. I didn't do anything about it because I read that the code dealt with the emission and had nothing to do with the engine and wouldn't harm anything. I read that some drivers had bypassed the code with a chip.
If I cleared the code by the battery method, it would stay out for some time and then reappear.

When the shop guy came out to talk to me, initially, he told me that all it needed was a major tune-up. I decided to wait for it. A couple of hours later, he told me that it wasn't the coil or plug as they originally thought. He stated that the signal wasn't getting to the coil and further trouble shooting was required. Then he calls back later and states that it was the coil but they had found something else. Here is the invoice I got as I picked up the car.
Notes: MIL Flashing
Inspected and confirmed condition.
Scanned PCM and retrieved PO307, PO411, P1469, AND PO1484. All codes other than the PO307 have been in the system a long time.
Customer requested diag. on flashing check engine light.
Inspected ignition components and found vehicle in need of maint tune-up, also rec one coil.

Once maint was caught up, continued testing and found the left hand sub harness melted. Removed and repaired harness.
Reassembled with original coil and misfire is gone, however recommend replacing coil. Possible reason for melted harness.
Replaced coild again. Road tested the vehicle to verify performance.

Parts replaced:
8 spark plugs $73.12
1 ignition coil $91.98
Air filter $21.38
Fuel Filter $24.78
Small shrink tubing $7.32
LABOR $582.40

I couldn't pick up the car until the weekend because my wife is disabled. She drove the car back and I asked her how it was running. She said OK. I started the car up the next morning and I knew that the problem hadn't been fixed. I drove it around and pretty soon the check engine light began flashing the same way it had before. It is now back at the shop.

I need help desperately so that I can get her back in running condition. I have owned the car for 5 years now and never had any major problems; it ran like a dream for all those years and I truly love this car. I have encountered the normal problems like the blend door actuator and the air-bag problem. I replaced the bags with the struts because when the leak developed, I was stuck out of town and at the mercy of the local lincoln dealership who told me that all four bags needed replacing, etc. You all know what that would have cost me. Thanks to all of you, I knew about the strut replacement and went that route. I knew all about these problems before I bought the car because of this site but also knew that owners raced them and that the engine was very strong and durable. I have all the normal maintenance performed at scheduled intervals. I want to be driving this car 10 years from now and know that it is capable of doing it.

I will continue to do the research on the rough idle problem from the forums but any additional help would be sincerely appreciated.
 
P0307= Cylinder 7 misfire. I would check all your coil boots, esp that one. This is a DIY (do it yourself) job for sure.
One of them is probably cracked. And damn you paid nearly $600 to replace your sparkplugs on a gen 2. That is outrageous.
 
Whether it is right or wrong, that is up to you to assess. I use copper plugs @ about $12 a set! The rubber insulator that goes between the coil and plug are famous for leaking and cross fireing to the tube that goes down to the plug. You should shop, but you should be able to buy them for around $3 each. I cant speak for the melted loom. But I will tell you that I would never go back to that shop. On a 98, plugs and associated items are very much - do it yourself. The hardest thing about it is getting the air intake tube out of the way.
Please let us help you diagnose and repair your car - it wont cost like that.
 
P0307 Misfire Cylinder 7

P0411 SAI System Incorrect Upstream Flow Detected

P1484 Open Power to Ground on VCRM

P1469 Low A/C Cycling Period

I suggest that the latter two are related due to your refrigerant leak past the "O" ring, and that the first two are possibly related due to a coil boot or plug failure.. If you are untrusting of your local techs, I would recommend that you go to EBay and buy one of the Actron pocket scanners for about $50 so you can check the codes before you drive anywhere and post here for any help you think you may need. It's a cheap investment in my opinion as it can be used on any car (after 1996) and you can erase the DTC without disconnecting the battery. JMHO
 
$582.40 for labor, what is the labor rate? even if $110 an hour that is way too much time for what they did. Those would be the first things to change and look at for a rough idle. However I believe there is an idle control valve mechanism on top of the throttle body, changing that and using the specified throttle body cleaner may help you.
 
The labor cost is likely 80% "diagnostic ". Plus they will charge you full labor for the plugs, coil, air filter, fuel filter.

Always listen to the Boss. Get a scanner. Record the codes. Then clear them and drive arround a bit to see if they replicate. Sometimes a misfire can be random, although that will usually throw the code for "random misfires". The key is to see if the codes repeat themselves.
 
Last edited:
also...sometimes a misfire does not show itself immediatly. It may have ran fine after they worked on it, but not due to their work. You will have a tough time getting money back from them, but I would think they should be willing to do some level of further diagnostic work for free.
 
Last edited:
The labor cost is likely 80% "diagnostic ". Plus they will charge you full labor for the plugs, coil, air filter, fuel filter.

Always listen to the Boss. Get a scanner. Record the codes. Then clear them and drive arround a bit to see if they replicate. Sometimes a misfire can be random, although that will usually throw the code for "random misfires". The key is to see if the codes repeat themselves.

When they charge you for diagnostic, it should be for the time to pull the codes and interpreting them, so 80% of that total for pulling codes is BS.
 
all i can say is wow! and $73 bucks for spark plugs how many did they sell you 9 sets? that is crazy god it makes me sad to hear stories of people who cant do simple work on these cars like stated above this is why i despise repair shops. and to think i worked at one for years and saw this go on daily!
 
There is more to diagnostic work tha just pulling codes. But I agree, seems very high for a "professional" to diagnose a misfire and chaneg the few parts he did. Obvously, the part costs are full retail marked up at least 100%. May not be entirely out of line if they were top of the line platinum plugs. It may be out of line for most of us DIY owners who buy parts of the web, but not so much

I would think "charging" 1-2 hours labor for replacing all the parts except fixing the wiring harness is pretty typical. It obviously does not take 1-2 hours change all these parts, but that is how shops make money. Nobody only charges the time actually worked.
 
he is probably showing these posts to his mechanic and ripping him a new one.

He should.

Does anyone have the books that show the shop time for the work done, i.e. a plug change f0r 8 plugs is 1.2 hr or something along those line?
 
$582.40 for labor, what is the labor rate? even if $110 an hour that is way too much time for what they did.

You guys are jumping to conclusions, it says right there in the post "remove and repaired harness". We don't know how much they removed, but that alone could take 2 to 3 hours, expecially the repairing process.

all i can say is wow! and $73 bucks for spark plugs how many did they sell you 9 sets?

Platinums at 9 bucks a pop is probably what he got charged which is about 3 bucks a piece over cost.

Sounds like he got the work he needed and there is another coil that is bad. Doesn't seem too ridiculous, but obviously the car isn't fixed.
 
You guys are jumping to conclusions, it says right there in the post "remove and repaired harness". We don't know how much they removed, but that alone could take 2 to 3 hours, expecially the repairing process.



Platinums at 9 bucks a pop is probably what he got charged which is about 3 bucks a piece over cost.

Sounds like he got the work he needed and there is another coil that is bad. Doesn't seem too ridiculous, but obviously the car isn't fixed.

I believe it is referring to the coil harness that is what the small shrink tubing for $7.32 is. 2 to 3 hours to fix that is BS, you can probably get a new one and replaces it for less then 3 hours labor and $7 shrink tubing.
 
Parts replaced:
8 spark plugs $73.12
1 ignition coil $91.98
Air filter $21.38
Fuel Filter $24.78
Small shrink tubing $7.32
LABOR $582.40

Straight from the manual...

Tune-up and Engine Performance Checks
Tune-Up
System, Tune-Up 2.3 hours
Includes: Renew & Adjust Spark Plugs. Inspect Or Replace Ignition Cables. Service Or Renew Air, Fuel Filter & PCV Valve. Service Battery.

Another hour or two for the wiring harness repair and you're getting close to the $582. Add an hour for diagnosing and thats about right.

I believe it is referring to the coil harness that is what the small shrink tubing for $7.32 is. 2 to 3 hours to fix that is BS, you can probably get a new one and replaces it for less then 3 hours labor and $7 shrink tubing.

Possibly, but now we're all just speculating based on the limited information. :)
 
More to the story

More to the story

First of all, I would like to really thank everyone for their comments. I was surprised at how many of you replied; it was beyond my expectations and showed me how many good, caring people there still are, so kudos to all of you.

The guy called me from the repair shop and told me that they were working on it and it seems that another problem was found in that particular harness and that it would be repaired. Later that day he told me that they had it running for an hour without problems. He told me that he would like to road test it for an hour and I told him OK. He called today to tell me that the car was ready and absolutely no rough idle. When I pick the car up on Friday I will have him show me which one it was and exactly how the harness was repaired. I'll post the info then.

I didn't disappear as stated in one comment. I just have a lot of B.S. in my life right now - dealing with a 95 year old parent - etc. I get lost in the B.S. sometimes and forgot to post. This isn't a defensive reply, just an apology for not posting back.

Thank you again.

Budd
 
i disagree with jesse the price is rediculous dont stick up for the repair shops, if that had been your old mark, you know dam well you wouldnt have paid that much!
 
Hey Budd,

So is the car good to go? No more rough idle?

Edit: Looks like you're not picking it up till friday. Keep us posted.
 
Back
Top