Ceramic by itself is great for its low dust, low noise, zero fade, and mileage, BUT they are low friction materials, so stopping requires more pedal pressure.
Brakes and Rotors
- Thread starter SolipcisticSmile
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Ceramic by itself is great for its low dust, low noise, zero fade, and mileage, BUT they are low friction materials, so stopping requires more pedal pressure.
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Just got an e mail from a tech at EBC. Her says that RedStuff is available for 96 -98 Thunderbird SC and that those pads will work for me. Any truth to that? What's this about the Cobra hub swap?
Never heard that one before...if true that would open up a lot more brake pad options for us.
Mike, a couple thousand miles does not qualify for a brake review. Especially on bigger rotors with Brembos. 
The Cobra brakes on my '96 are significantly better than the stockers on my '93, even with the new rotors/pads I have now. But I have plans to hopefully improve upon that.
As for evaluating the stock rotors, you need to check for runout with a dial indicator and thickness with a micrometer. The rotor specs are fairly tight meaning total allowable runout is relatively small and not much thickness variation is tolerable on the Mark VIII.
If you elect to reuse the rotors, be sure to prep the new pads and the rotor surface with some 3M scotchbrite. This will remove any glazing from the rotors and prep the pads for the obligatory break-in. Be sure not to neglect this final step for longevity.
The Cobra brakes on my '96 are significantly better than the stockers on my '93, even with the new rotors/pads I have now. But I have plans to hopefully improve upon that.
As for evaluating the stock rotors, you need to check for runout with a dial indicator and thickness with a micrometer. The rotor specs are fairly tight meaning total allowable runout is relatively small and not much thickness variation is tolerable on the Mark VIII.
If you elect to reuse the rotors, be sure to prep the new pads and the rotor surface with some 3M scotchbrite. This will remove any glazing from the rotors and prep the pads for the obligatory break-in. Be sure not to neglect this final step for longevity.
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Driller, As always I appreciate the comprehensive information. I will not be reusing the stock front rotors. I just ordered ProStop crossdrilled from Summit. I was wavering on spending the $89 apiece plus $80 for GreenStuff pads, but once again my unusual Mark VIII luck struck! And this time everyone can take advantage!!! I was in my local (Edison, NJ) Pep Boys looking for some red or yellow caliper paint as I was gonna clean and repaint the stock calipers when I do the brakes this weekend. On a whim, I went to the parts counter to see what, if any, in - stock Mark VIII brake pads they had. The guy says, (after naming a bunch of crap in which I was not interested) "well we've also got these EBC GreenStuff pads on clearance"..... I had basically tuned him out at that point when his unexpected words broke my reverie. "What!!!!!" I said! Long story short (after my stroke of luck with the 9500's I didn't see this one coming) they had 19 pairs of EBC GreenStuff on clearance for $4.90 a pair! You read that right, $4.90 a pair. I say had 19 cuz I bought 3 pair, so now they have 16. These pads are like $80 from Summit, so if any LOD MEMBERS want me to, I'll pick them up for you and you can just pay me for them. Even with shipping if you live far it can't cost more than $15 or $20. There are 16 pairs left people. So anyway Driller, that's why I didn't hesitate to buy the rotors, I saved so much on the pads that cost for this job was no longer an issue. Now I have enough GreenStuff pads to last me quite a while. Unfortunately, they only had front axle pads available, so unless I can get them to work on the rears I'm still gonna have to pay full price when I do the rear brakes. I wonder if I can use a cheaper pad on the rear since the fronts do most of the work anyway? I tell you what, IDK when I'll even have to do the rears, the car has like 45K, and they still look new. I wonder if they even work they look so new.
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IDK. These pads are not actually physically in the store, they are at the "local distribution center". It doesn't matter though, he called the guy right in front of me to confirm that they are indeed available, and I prepaid (just over $15 for 3 pairs!) and will pick them up tomorrow. Wherever thay are "special ordered" from, it's damn close and they are in on the $4.90 price too, so who cares if they come from the moon. They're cheap, they're good, and they're available for a limited time only. That's enough for me!
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Ok. I've done the swap. I CANNOT believe how difficult it was to remove the stock rotors!!! It took hours. After chipping away the corrosion around the disks, soakins them in WD, and heating then to help break the seal, I still had not made them budge an inch. That's when I called my cousin a few towns over and borrowed his balancer puller. I should have done so from the start cuz they came off relatively easily with that.
First, let me say that the new set up is awesome. The car now brakes like someone is throwing out an anchor. I'm very satisfied with that. However.....This car had the stock chrome 10 spokes on backwards. You know, drivers side wheels on the passenger side. Well, although the car couldn't brake worth a sh** before, I had no vibrations. Now with new rotors, new pads, and the wheels swapped to the sides where they belong ( I switched the two fronts right to left and the two rears right to left, i just never had an occasion to take the wheels off before the brake job that's why I didn't do it previously) I've got a pretty severe vibration that only comes on at faster than 75mph or so and only when I hit the brakes. (That would lead me toi believe it's brake related since it doesn't vibrate all the time, but I included the info about what i did with the wheels in case that's not necessarily so.) The wheel vibrates in my hands and almost feeels as if it's quickly turning back and forth. The braking performance isn't affected (at least I don't think it is, they work GREAT) but the vibration is unnerving to say the least. Any ideas? Driller?
First, let me say that the new set up is awesome. The car now brakes like someone is throwing out an anchor. I'm very satisfied with that. However.....This car had the stock chrome 10 spokes on backwards. You know, drivers side wheels on the passenger side. Well, although the car couldn't brake worth a sh** before, I had no vibrations. Now with new rotors, new pads, and the wheels swapped to the sides where they belong ( I switched the two fronts right to left and the two rears right to left, i just never had an occasion to take the wheels off before the brake job that's why I didn't do it previously) I've got a pretty severe vibration that only comes on at faster than 75mph or so and only when I hit the brakes. (That would lead me toi believe it's brake related since it doesn't vibrate all the time, but I included the info about what i did with the wheels in case that's not necessarily so.) The wheel vibrates in my hands and almost feeels as if it's quickly turning back and forth. The braking performance isn't affected (at least I don't think it is, they work GREAT) but the vibration is unnerving to say the least. Any ideas? Driller?
Did you clean the old hubs of all rust and scale?
It sounds like a rotor runout problem to me. Rust between the hub and rotor can cause it.
I use a dial indicator to check for that. After cleaning the hub, check for runout at each "clock" position of the rotor/hub. Then I put it back together in the position with the least runout.
It sounds like a rotor runout problem to me. Rust between the hub and rotor can cause it.
I use a dial indicator to check for that. After cleaning the hub, check for runout at each "clock" position of the rotor/hub. Then I put it back together in the position with the least runout.
+1.
Also, did you remember to line up the valve stem with the yellow tipped lug nut stud?
True...they weren't perhaps uni-directional tires?
If so, you might be/have damaging/damaged them.
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First of all, I'm sorry that it took me so long to reply on my own thread, for some reason LOD would not load for me for like two and a half days! Actually, it still won't load, but our esteemed head moderator sent me a link to go straight to the forums, so here I am.
I didn't know about the yellow tipped stud thing, I'll check that, but I don't think they are visible cuz I feel like I would have noticed that.
I did not have the tires remounted / rebalanced. They are unidirectional, and I didn't think it would be an issue, maybe it is?
My entire front suspension was recently replaced (see "Suspension Nightmare" thread). Ball joints, control arms, sway bar links, and all front bushings were just done in December.
Roadboss sent me a brake break - in procedure, I'm gonna try that. However, I think it is more likely that I didn't clean the hub mounting surface well enough. I DID clean it, but it was kinda rushed cuz it was done outside and it was getting dark. If that was the case though, wouldn't it vibrate all the time? Like I said, it only vibrates at over 75mph or so, and then as soon as I brake down to below that speed, it stops for the most part, and below say 45mph, it stops altogether, even if I'm still on the brake to a complete stop. Who knows what exactly it is? I think sometime this weekend, I'm gonna take the wheels back off, repull the rotors (hopefully they come off easy this time!!!), clean the hub mounting surface, and try to locate these mysterious yellow studs and remount the wheels accordingly. After that , I'll do Charlie's break in procedure. I hope that plan of attack will work. Like I said, the brakes operate AWESOME, but obviously a high speed vibration is unnerving at best. I'm thinking that the wheel swap may just have come at a time (i.e. during the brake job) that throws some suspicion on them as the culprits for this vibration. If all the above doesn't work, I'll either put the rims back on backwards, or maybe go to the nearby high - speed balancing shop that Steve mentioned. I'll keep everyone posted, but I think semi - dirty mounting surfaces are the real bad guy here if it's possible that that issue might cause only vibration above a certain speed and only when braking. Seems to me that something like that would cause constant vabration all the time, at all speeds, on the brakes or not. But hey, what do I know? Not much obviously, if I neglected to do it right the first time!!
I didn't know about the yellow tipped stud thing, I'll check that, but I don't think they are visible cuz I feel like I would have noticed that.
I did not have the tires remounted / rebalanced. They are unidirectional, and I didn't think it would be an issue, maybe it is?
My entire front suspension was recently replaced (see "Suspension Nightmare" thread). Ball joints, control arms, sway bar links, and all front bushings were just done in December.
Roadboss sent me a brake break - in procedure, I'm gonna try that. However, I think it is more likely that I didn't clean the hub mounting surface well enough. I DID clean it, but it was kinda rushed cuz it was done outside and it was getting dark. If that was the case though, wouldn't it vibrate all the time? Like I said, it only vibrates at over 75mph or so, and then as soon as I brake down to below that speed, it stops for the most part, and below say 45mph, it stops altogether, even if I'm still on the brake to a complete stop. Who knows what exactly it is? I think sometime this weekend, I'm gonna take the wheels back off, repull the rotors (hopefully they come off easy this time!!!), clean the hub mounting surface, and try to locate these mysterious yellow studs and remount the wheels accordingly. After that , I'll do Charlie's break in procedure. I hope that plan of attack will work. Like I said, the brakes operate AWESOME, but obviously a high speed vibration is unnerving at best. I'm thinking that the wheel swap may just have come at a time (i.e. during the brake job) that throws some suspicion on them as the culprits for this vibration. If all the above doesn't work, I'll either put the rims back on backwards, or maybe go to the nearby high - speed balancing shop that Steve mentioned. I'll keep everyone posted, but I think semi - dirty mounting surfaces are the real bad guy here if it's possible that that issue might cause only vibration above a certain speed and only when braking. Seems to me that something like that would cause constant vabration all the time, at all speeds, on the brakes or not. But hey, what do I know? Not much obviously, if I neglected to do it right the first time!!
If it's only vibrating at certain speeds, that's what I have, and others. And I don't think it's a brake issue. My point of vibration changed with the new gears/driveshaft, so I didn't notice before so much cause the vibration was at around 90, and I don't cruise at 90, now it's at like 75 or something which does cause me problems.