alignment issues

cadillackman

Registered
wasnt trying to hurt the sale but it looks like the alignment is off. like this..

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What adjustment needs to be made to correct this? My car has been like this for 2 years now. It's got 2 clean bills of health from the alignment rack but I know that it isn't right.
 
The caster is way off (adjusted with the adjustment nut on the strut rods).

An alignment shop did that to my car once. I think they used the wrong specs (Continental maybe?).
 
The strut rod is pushed too far back it looks. There is an adjustment on the front of the subframe. Although when you change this you will move all of the other alignment settings as well......EVERYTHING will need adjustment once this is centered.
 
Ok, My brother put this thing up on the rack today & I explained to a guy there that the subframe had smacked the rail at a pull through carwash. every since then, the wheels look set back in the fenderwell & the steering wheel pulls back & fourth as the car floats up & down on the interstate. If I hold the steering wheel while it's floating, the car will actually steer left to right with the up & down action. The guy told me that instead of messing with the strut rods(which seemed to be fine, nice & tight, good bushings too) that i could loosen the bolts on the K member & pull it forward & that it should put the wheels back where they were. My question is....is this feasable?
 

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It's only feasible if it has truly moved.

There are 8 bolts, 2 foreward and two rearward on each side. In between the two front bolts on each side is a 3/4" alignment hole through both the subframe and frame rail. If it has moved, it will be readily apparent and will require proper repositioning and an alignment.
 
Awesome, he thinks I'm crazy & there's nothing wrong with it. If anyone has any pics of the alignment holes they can post up i'll gladly give you a beer or 5 @ Carlisle. Thanks for the info Driller!
 
Awesome, he thinks I'm crazy & there's nothing wrong with it. If anyone has any pics of the alignment holes they can post up i'll gladly give you a beer or 5 @ Carlisle. Thanks for the info Driller!

As requested. The alignment holes are towards the front near the tow hooks.
 

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I'd stop talking to that "guy".

The caster is not just for centering the wheel in the wheel well. If your caster is off, and you move your K member to center the wheel, your caster will still be off.

I agree with everyone else, make sure that your K member is lined up, then get an alignment.
 
It's my fault, I talked my brother into putting it on a lift & adjusting the strut rods forward & then re-aligning it, but upon further inspection, the strut rods looked fine & undamaged.We looked at the spot that hit the k-member & the guy told me that I may have knocked it back & could possibly pull it back forward, or worst case it may have bent the bolts or the k- member which could both be replaced. The odd thing is, it's lined up just fine, it doesn't pull(except for when the suspension travels up & down as stated earlier) the front tires wear evenly & these new to me wheels have the hub rings in them so no more vibrations. This has been like this since april of 08, it's been one of those problems where I actually have to convince people that there's an actual problem. Very frustrating to say the least(I keep getting the "dude, it's lined up perfect" spill, & it may be , but the drivers side is worse. For the longest time I thought I had bent the frame & would just have to live with it forever. My brother's gonna take it back to work with him Thurs. & give it a shot, I'm glad I have an actual picture I can show him now. He's a GM tech, that may be the problem. Thanks for the assistance.
 
I guess I'm not understanding what you are saying.

Are you saying it's aligned in spec and it still looks wrong and steers funny?

If so, could you post the alignment specs that the machine prints out?
 
If your car hit the subframe that hard against a curb your strut rods and or Lower control arms would be toast if your wheels moved as much as those pics show. This bouncing up and down makes me curious as to how old your air springs are, They shouldn't be bouncing up and down unless the strut inside of them is shot, in which case they need replacing.

Clearly you have the wrong Caster on the car which reads in my manual as +5.50 degree nominal at curb height with 1/2 tank of gas (+4.75 min & +6.25 max). Also note that the proper sequence to align our cars is to adjust the Camber first, then Caster, and finally toe. I have a feeling this sequence has not been followed by the previous techs.
 
it has an american air 1.5" set on it, it's about 4 years old now, the struts may be a little worn. The car hit the tip of the rail at a pull through car wash. It hit the front of the subframe just at the left of where the drivers side strut goes through it.It's always drug a little bit through there but that day I guess someone else had peeled the top of the rail up just enough to catch my subframe I'll go take some pics of it here in a few, as well as the drivers side wheel. that way everyone can get the full picture.
 
Nevermind the wet stuff, the rack leaks a bit, this is the drivers side, which is worse than the passenger side, which makes sense considering where it was hit.
 

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Now knowing you are on Coil Springs that are lowered 1.5" I would suggest you get a hold of Eddie Spinks at American Air and ask him what he would use for new alignment standards with the car that much lower than curb height.

Wheel base is 113.", and your picture doesn't show much other than a small split on the cross member for the radiator support.
 
Stick your camera up under the front of the subframe and take a pic of the alignment holes!
 
Put the car on jack stands and support the k-member (but not with the weight of the car on the k member).

Loosen up the bolts that mount the k-member and whack it forward if you can. There won't be much play here, but if you knocked it backward at a car wash you might be able to knock it forward a bit. Get a good, close look at the area where the strut rods mount to the k-member to make sure that area isn't bent. Get everything lined up as it should be, and tighten the bolts up good.

Then, realign the car. Make sure they swing caster before AND after making other adjustments. Usually the techs are lazy and / or incompetent, so they don't check caster after changing camber. If you change camber, it will affect caster and toe. if you change caster, it will affect camber, and possibly toe. the only thing you can change without affecting other measurements is toe. Problem is, to check caster, you have to get up in the car, turn the wheel to the left and right as the computer tells you, that way it can measure inclination of the axis about which the wheels turn (ie: caster). Most techs are too lazy and / or stupid to repeat this procedure after making other adjustments.

If you get the printout from the rack, and they changed anything, make SURE that the caster readings before and after are NOT the same. If you don't change anything and take the measurement twice, you will come up with a very slightly different reading, it's just the nature of the beast. If they swing caster, then change camber and call it a day, your readout will show the same caster reading before and after. That tells you that they didn't measure caster after changing camber, and it could be WAY out. If they tell you "don't worry about caster, it doesn't affect tire wear" they are right, but who cares, it affects driveability, get it back on the damn rack and fix it.

It's damn hard to get a good alignment. Especially on these cars. YOU have to know how to do it, and watch them like a hawk.

BTW, alignment specs should be the same with the car lowered.
 
OK, so it seems I'm a victim of a stupid/lazy alignment tech, i crawled under it & the K member alignment holes are dead on the mark. All the tech did was toe & camber. the work was free & I got what I paid for. Apparently he had been BS'ing me for more than a year on this. Oddly enough Midas did the first alignment after i did the front end replacement & didn't get it right either. I'll be taking it back to them to request that they fix it right since they were the folks that I had paid to do it. I've just been wanting to get this right before I make the 720 mile trip to Carlisle again. From my best guess, the incorrect caster is pulling on the tie rods unevenly as the front suspension travels up & down causing the pulling I had described earlier. It's almost a non issue at street driving speeds but it multiplies itself at highway speeds. Thanks for the detail Sleeper, i'll take this with me when I show the retards what needs to be done.
 
If caster is way out, the car probably hunts around and wanders a bit. When it's fixed the car should have better on center feel and should drive straighter.
 
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