Congress approved a "cash for clunkers" program

steve

With "LOD" Since 1997
Is the Mark VIII eligible?

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/aut...xNDkEc2VjA2ZwLXRvZGF5BHNsawNjYXNoLWNsdW5rZXJz

By Ken Thomas, Associated Press Writer
WASHINGTON (AP) -- Congress approved a "cash for clunkers" program Thursday to provide government incentives of $3,500 to $4,500 to motorists who trade in their gas guzzlers for more fuel efficient vehicles after Senate Democrats narrowly defeated a Republican effort to kill the plan.

Auto state senators said the program would help hard-pressed car dealers and automakers by bringing buyers into showrooms, and they got help from President Barack Obama and Vice President Joe Biden, who made calls to wavering Democrats urging them to keep the plan alive.

"This is an emergency for families and small businesses -- for an industry that has been the backbone of our economy for a generation," said Sen. Debbie Stabenow, D-Mich., who sponsored the proposal.

Opponents said it would increase the federal debt without doing much to get expensive-to-operate vehicles off the roads.

Senate supporters of the program overcame a procedural hurdle by the plan's leading opponent, Sen. Judd Gregg, R-N.H., on a 60-36 vote, winning the minimum number of votes needed to keep the program in a $106 billion war-spending plan that the Senate passed later Thursday.

The House approved the cash for clunkers bill last week on a vote of 298-119 and Senate Democrats attached it to the war-spending bill. The overall bill now goes to the White House for Obama's signature.

Four Republicans -- Kit Bond of Missouri, Thad Cochran of Mississippi, Susan Collins of Maine and George Voinovich of Ohio -- voted with two independents and 54 Democrats in favor of the clunker measure, while Democrat Ben Nelson of Nebraska was opposed along with 35 Republicans.

Sen. Maria Cantwell, D-Wash., changed her vote to support the vehicle incentive plan and spoke by phone with Obama during the vote.

Cantwell spokeswoman Ciaran Clayton said Obama "acknowledged Senator Cantwell's concerns that the cash- for-clunkers program ... did not do enough to meet our nation's urgent need to reduce foreign oil dependence" and vowed to work with Cantwell and others to "maximize the number of efficient cars on America's roads."

In addition to Cantwell, Obama and Biden reached out to Democrats Patrick Leahy of Vermont, Claire McCaskill of Missouri and Michael Bennet of Colorado, according to two people familiar with the outreach. They spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly.

Obama has encouraged Congress to approve the consumer incentives for new car purchases as part of the government's efforts to restructure General Motors Corp. and Chrysler Group LLC. The bill provides $1 billion for the program from July through November.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein, D-Calif., who supported a plan with more stringent requirements to receive the vouchers, said she received "absolute assurance" from Senate leaders that if the program was continued beyond November it would be modeled after the bill she pushed.

Supporters said the program, which would be implemented by the Transportation Department, was expected to be implemented by early August.

The auto industry and its union lobbied heavily for passage of the cash for clunkers plan as GM and Chrysler have received billions of dollars in government-led bankruptcies and the entire auto industry has dealt with plummeting car sales. In May, overall sales were 34 percent lower than a year ago.

Under the proposal, car owners could get a voucher worth $3,500 if they traded in a vehicle getting 18 miles per gallon or less for one getting at least 22 mpg. The value of the voucher would grow to $4,500 if the mileage of the new car was 10 mpg higher than the old vehicle. The miles per gallon figures are listed on the car window's sticker.

Owners of sport utility vehicles, pickup trucks or minivans that get 18 mpg or less could receive a voucher for $3,500 if their new truck or SUV got at least 2 mpg higher than their old vehicle. The voucher would increase to $4,500 if the mileage of the new truck or SUV was at least 5 mpg higher than the older vehicle.

Dealers participating in the program would receive an electronic voucher from the government for the trade-in to apply to the purchase or lease of a qualifying vehicle. The bill directs dealers to ensure that the older vehicles are crushed or shredded to get the clunkers off the road.

The program was intended to help replace older vehicles -- built in model year 1984 or later -- and would not make financial sense for consumers owning an older car with a trade-in value greater than $3,500 or $4,500.

The U.S. industry is expected to generate about 9.5 million vehicles sales in 2009, compared with more than 13 million in 2008 and more than 16 million in 2007.

Associated Press writer Matthew Daly contributed to this report.

The bill is H.R. 2346.

Copyright © 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. The information contained in the AP News report may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed without the prior written authority of The Associated Press.
 
Try inputting into THIS database to find out which cars will be on the hit list.

Our '98's aren't listed, but the other years don't seem to be considered as clunkers.
 
Yea, the MPG on my sticker is 18 city and the highway 26, the combined mpg would need to be 18 or less. Oh well.
 
You also have to factor in the Retail Value I believe. That's why they ARE in the Edmunds list.

You can voucher in any car based on the MPG, but it would make no sense to get back $3,500 or $4,500 on a car that is worth more. Edmunds took that into account to list cars that would make sense based on their resale value and combined MPG. M 97 is worth less then $3k.
But our Marks for being as old as they are (16 to 11 years old) have good MPG values and probably won't qualify. Edmunds has the combined MPG at 19 for the 97 and 18 for the 98 (that is why the 98 is on their list), but that database from Last Mark has it at 20 and that is more inline based on what the window sticker has and that is what is going to be used.
 
I can't imagine getting rid of the Mark. I get 22-25mpg consistantly, *and* I love driving it.

I'm slightly more tempted with my rusty-but-trusty 1986, 320,000 mile Town Car. but it'd still be a difficult decision. That, and I'd probably want to replace it with a pickup, or Jeep Wrangler. neither of which do much better for fuel economy. <sigh>
 
What makes me mad, is they want the dealers to crush, shred or otherwise scrap the trade-in vehicle "to get them off the road". All this does is make older cars and parts less available. It has little to do with mileage or emissions and even less to do with protecting the auto industry. It's an underhanded way of social engineering as I see it. :mad:

I urge everyone to join the SEMA Action Network to fight these misguided regulations both on the federal and state/local levels.
 
Let's see.. I could trade in a Mark VIII, pay thousands of more dollars, and get a new Focus.

No thanks.
 
There's one aspect of this wacky bill that everyone is ignoring... if you're ready to buy a new car then go out and find a beater with lousy MPG and buy it for $300. Then use that to take advantage of the clunker law and save $3500 off the new car. Trouble is, when enough people catch on to this there won't be any really cheap beater cars on the market any more.
 
Here's the deal... at the allocated 1 billion dollars and an average $4000 voucher, you're talking 250,000 cars. With predicted annual sales numbers at a low 9 million units, the impact is minimal at best.
 
There's one aspect of this wacky bill that everyone is ignoring... if you're ready to buy a new car then go out and find a beater with lousy MPG and buy it for $300. Then use that to take advantage of the clunker law and save $3500 off the new car. Trouble is, when enough people catch on to this there won't be any really cheap beater cars on the market any more.

You just can't do that, read the bill, the car must have been continuously insured consistent with State laws and registered to you for at least one year immediately prior to trade-in. Also the car must be drivable.
 
What makes me mad, is they want the dealers to crush, shred or otherwise scrap the trade-in vehicle "to get them off the road". All this does is make older cars and parts less available. It has little to do with mileage or emissions and even less to do with protecting the auto industry. It's an underhanded way of social engineering as I see it. :mad:

I urge everyone to join the SEMA Action Network to fight these misguided regulations both on the federal and state/local levels.

Here's the deal... at the allocated 1 billion dollars and an average $4000 voucher, you're talking 250,000 cars. With predicted annual sales numbers at a low 9 million units, the impact is minimal at best.

So if the impact is minimal why do you care if they are scraping them? They can part out the cars as well, the cars just can't be resold.
 
So if the impact is minimal why do you care if they are scraping them? They can part out the cars as well, the cars just can't be resold.

The impact is minimal on "helping" the automobile industry - which is what the purported intent is. It is also minimal on emissions impact or fuel savings.

The reason I care is that it is the taxpayer's money paying for this nonsense.
 
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