Top Cash for Clunkers Trade-Ins and New Cars

steve

With "LOD" Since 1997
America has a lot fewer functioning Ford Explorers these days.

The number one vehicle destroyed under the Cash for Clunkers program, the Transportation Department says, was the Ford Explorer (1998 edition). Number two, the Ford Explorer (1997). Number Three...you guessed it. The '96 model.

The top eight, Jalopnik reports, were all SUVs. In fact, they were all various editions of the Ford Explorer and Jeep Grand Cherokee. A pair late ‘90s of minivans, the ‘97 Ford Windstar and '99 Dodge Grand Caravan, round out the top ten. All ten were domestic vehicles.

Domestics claimed a decent share of the new vehicle sales generated by the program as well. The Detroit News notes, "Detroit's automakers accounted for 47 percent of the first 80,000 ‘Cash for Clunkers' sales, the Obama administration said today...which is above their overall share in the auto market of about 45 percent." The top-selling vehicle under the program so far is the Ford Focus. "Four of the top 10-selling vehicles are manufactured by Detroit's Big Three. Of non-Big Three purchases, the Transportation Department's preliminary analysis suggests that more than half of these new vehicles were manufactured in the United States."

Autoblog adds, "White House spokesman Robert Gibbs says the average fuel economy increase so far is 9.4 mpg; a 61% increase." Based on the first 80,000 sales, "83% of the vehicles traded in have been trucks, while 60% of the vehicles purchased under the program have been cars."

The Top Ten Cash for Clunkers Trade-Ins:
1. 1998 Ford Explorer
2. 1997 Ford Explorer
3. 1996 Ford Explorer
4. 1999 Ford Explorer
5. Jeep Grand Cherokee
6. Jeep Cherokee
7. 1995 Ford Explorer
8. 1994 Ford Explorer
9. 1997 Ford Windstar
10. 1999 Dodge Caravan

The Top Ten Cash for Clunkers New Cars:
1. Ford Focus
2. Honda Civic
3. Toyota Corolla
4. Toyota Prius
5. Ford Escape
6. Toyota Camry
7. Dodge Caliber
8. Hyundai Elantra
9. Honda Fit
10. Chevy Cobalt
 
Considering the backlog of application and the fact they don't even know how much the program has cost yet, I don't put a lot of faith in these statistics they are coming out with.
 
The climate experts aren't impressed with the program, say it is just helping stimulate the auto industry.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090805/ap_on_sc/us_cash_for_clunkers_pollution

Cash for clunkers' effect on pollution? A blip
By SETH BORENSTEIN, AP Science Writer Seth Borenstein, Ap Science Writer
Wed Aug 5, 9:33 am ET

WASHINGTON – "Cash for clunkers" could have the same effect on global warming pollution as shutting down the entire country — every automobile, every factory, every power plant — for an hour per year. That could rise to three hours if the program is extended by Congress and remains as popular as it is now.

Climate experts aren't impressed.

Compared to overall carbon dioxide emissions in the United States, the pollution savings from cash for clunkers do not noticeably move the fuel gauge. Environmental experts say the program — conceived primarily to stimulate the economy and jump-start the auto industry — is not an effective way to attack climate change.

"As a carbon dioxide policy, this is a terribly wasteful thing to do," said Henry Jacoby, a professor of management and co-director of the Joint Program on the Science and Policy of Global Change at MIT. "The amount of carbon you are saving per federal expenditure is very, very small."

Officials expect a quarter-million gas guzzlers will be junked under the original $1 billion set aside by Congress — money that is now all but exhausted.

Calculations by The Associated Press, using Department of Transportation figures, show that replacing those fuel hogs will reduce carbon dioxide emissions by just under 700,000 tons a year. While that may sound impressive, it's nothing compared to what the U.S. spewed last year: nearly 6.4 billion tons (and that was down from previous years).

That means on average, every hour, America emits 728,000 tons of carbon dioxide. The total savings per year from cash for clunkers translates to about 57 minutes of America's output of the chief greenhouse gas.

Likewise, America will be using nearly 72 million fewer gallons of gasoline a year because of the program, based on the first quarter-million vehicles replaced. U.S. drivers go through that amount of gas every 4 1/2 hours, according to the Department of Energy.

For individuals, the program scores big. Vehicle owners who trade in an older, gas-guzzling truck or car for a newer fuel-efficient vehicle can get $3,500 to $4,500 in rebates. On average each year, they will save 287 gallons of gas, more than $700 in fuel costs and close to 3 tons in carbon dioxide pollution.

The problem is, there aren't enough of these individuals to dent the national or global energy and environmental problems.

"There's 260 million vehicles on the road and you're talking a quarter-million vehicles. It's not even close. It's just a drop in the bucket," said Bruce Belzowski, a scientist at the University of Michigan's Transportation Research Institute. "It's really small numbers. But if you don't start somewhere, where are you going to start? It heads the country in the right direction."

The House has passed a bill at President Barack Obama's request to pump an additional $2 billion into the program. If the Senate follows suit, the potential effect on pollution and energy would triple. But experts say that it is still not much compared to the overall problem.

One benefit of cash for clunkers is that it takes some of the dirtiest cars off the road for good — their engines are immobilized with "liquid glass" and the rest of the vehicle can be recycled. Otherwise, these cars could have been on the road for several more years, polluting more each year. So the pollution reductions keep adding up.

Americans are holding on to their cars longer than they used to, with the median age of cars on the road in 2008 rising to a record high of 9.4 years, according to R.L. Polk & Co.

While some people have worried that there might be an added environmental and energy cost to recycling the metal in the junked cars, experts said that is not the case. Generally, it saves energy to use recycled steel in cars rather than newly made steel, Belzowski said.

The cars being bought aren't just more gas-stingy than what they're replacing — they are 18 percent more efficient on average than other new cars, according to the Department of Transportation.

"This is a win-win program for everybody," said National Highway Traffic Safety Administration spokesman Eric Bolton. "The program is raising the average fuel economy of the fleet while getting the dirtiest vehicles off the roads."

Bolton said there is another benefit to the program: Newer cars "are considerably safer than the old clunkers they are replacing."

But some energy experts say the country is overpaying for the pollution reductions, mostly because cash for clunkers is more about stimulating the economy than cutting pollution.

Paying up to $4,500 per clunker means the government is spending more than $160 for every ton of carbon dioxide removed over 10 years, said MIT's Jacoby, co-author of the book "Transportation in a Climate-Constrained World."

That's five to 10 times more than the estimated per-ton cost of carbon dioxide for power plants in the cap-and-trade system passed earlier this year by the House.

Michael Gerrard, director of the Center for Climate Change Law at Columbia University, who examined the clunkers program in an academic journal, said there are far better ways to cut energy use and greenhouse gases.

"It's not that it's a bad idea; just don't sell it as a cost-effective energy savings method," he said. "From an economic standpoint it seems to be a roaring success. From an environment and energy perspective, it's not where you would put your first dollar."

___

Associated Press Writer Ken Thomas in Washington contributed to this report.
 
Well do the "climate experts" expect a full turnaround in 1 month of the program being around? That's just retarded. If it already saved 1 hr of pollution per day... Imagine if it ran for longer...?! Not only that but the 9/10 cars that are being bought get REALLY good MPG (nearly 10mpg better than the "clunker" that was traded in) which should lessen our addition to foreign oil.

Granted I am disagreeing with a lot of the aspects of the program, mainly that newer vehicles can be traded and have to be destroyed in I have seen youtube vids of them destroying 2001 Grand Cherokee Limited and nice expeditions. :(
 
Well do the "climate experts" expect a full turnaround in 1 month of the program being around? That's just retarded. If it already saved 1 hr of pollution per day... Imagine if it ran for longer...?! Not only that but the 9/10 cars that are being bought get REALLY good MPG (nearly 10mpg better than the "clunker" that was traded in) which should lessen our addition to foreign oil.

Granted I am disagreeing with a lot of the aspects of the program, mainly that newer vehicles can be traded and have to be destroyed in I have seen youtube vids of them destroying 2001 Grand Cherokee Limited and nice expeditions. :(

It is not 1 hour a day, it is 1 hour a year.
 
It is not 1 hour a day, it is 1 hour a year.

Well typo on my part. 1 hr per day means that after 24 months of this program there would be no more pollution.

It is a wasteful government program, but really compare that with what we spent on Iraq. And somehow this makes a whole lot more sense.
 
Well typo on my part. 1 hr per day means that after 24 months of this program there would be no more pollution.

It is a wasteful government program, but really compare that with what we spent on Iraq. And somehow this makes a whole lot more sense.

Since we own GM at least some of our money is comming back to us but more is going to Japan :rolleyes:
 
Since we own GM at least some of our money is comming back to us but more is going to Japan :rolleyes:

That's fine most of those are built here anyways. Including Camry and Corolla. Last I checked the Japs are not running US dealerships.

GM can go F itself. I don't think I will own another.
 
That's fine most of those are built here anyways. Including Camry and Corolla.

Umm maybe, but the profits are not here.

"Climate Experts" is an oxymoron. The climate has been changing for eons and suddenly someone from the last couple of decades is an expert? That's almost laughable.

The entire concept of carbon dioxide as a pollutant is a farce in my opinion. Our planet has been emitting carbon dioxide through natural causes more than the industrialized civilizations could ever contribute. Every life form known produces carbon dioxide and the planet itself spews out tremendous amounts of the greenhouse gas. The burning of fossil fuels is but a small percentage of the sum sources of the gas but yet we have been made to believe virtually the opposite. When you take all the other sources into consideration, the price we pay to reduce carbon dioxide emissions from the burning of fossil fuels by 1 hour per year is a financial boondoggle and an insult to our intelligence.
 
Congress OKs $2B refill of 'cash for clunkers'
2 more Billion aproved, at least our tax money is going to the working people an not the rich bankers. I think all tax payers should get a voucher to spend.
 
Umm maybe, but the profits are not here.

I don't care. GM and Chrysler can't run a car company in the first place with 80!!! Billion in government money.

That is enough for 6 years of cash for clunkers.

Ford on the other hand is admirable.
 
I don't care. GM and Chrysler can't run a car company in the first place with 80!!! Billion in government money.

That is enough for 6 years of cash for clunkers.

Ford on the other hand is admirable.

Max, it is the tax payers money. I don't like any of this bail out BS, Laissez-faire i say.
 
Well typo on my part. 1 hr per day means that after 24 months of this program there would be no more pollution.

It is a wasteful government program, but really compare that with what we spent on Iraq. And somehow this makes a whole lot more sense.

Ahhh...the "since we've already goofed up, we might as well throw in the towel" philosophy...:p
 
Umm maybe, but the profits are not here.

"Climate Experts" is an oxymoron. The climate has been changing for eons and suddenly someone from the last couple of decades is an expert? That's almost laughable.

The entire concept of carbon dioxide as a pollutant is a farce in my opinion. Our planet has been emitting carbon dioxide through natural causes more than the industrialized civilizations could ever contribute. Every life form known produces carbon dioxide and the planet itself spews out tremendous amounts of the greenhouse gas. The burning of fossil fuels is but a small percentage of the sum sources of the gas but yet we have been made to believe virtually the opposite. When you take all the other sources into consideration, the price we pay to reduce carbon dioxide emissions from the burning of fossil fuels by 1 hour per year is a financial boondoggle and an insult to our intelligence.

Well said.
 
Considering the backlog of application and the fact they don't even know how much the program has cost yet, I don't put a lot of faith in these statistics they are coming out with.

SPIN METER: $3 Billion Buys Not-So-Green Vehicles

Full Story >>>
http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/aut...xNDkEc2VjA2ZwLXRvZGF5BHNsawNjbHVua2VyLXNjYW1z

WASHINGTON – Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood, the nation's top car salesman in recent weeks, has cited the Obama administration's best-seller list of mostly smaller, fuel-saving cars like the Ford Focus to describe the success of the Cash for Clunkers rebate program.

But what LaHood and other administration officials usually don't mention is that some trucks and sport-utility vehicles that get less than 20 miles per gallon, like the Ford F-150 truck and one version of the Cadillac SRX Crossover, also are being purchased with the new government subsidies. Both are bulky vehicles weighing more than 6,000 pounds when loaded that boast at least 248 horsepower.

Just how many consumers used the federal rebates to buy these larger, not-so-green vehicles is unclear. The Obama administration has declined so far to release detailed records of purchases under the program being compiled by the Transportation Department, listing every clunker deal requesting rebates. The Associated Press requested the data July 31.

...
 
Cash for Clunkers to end on Monday

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090820/ap_on_bi_ge/us_cash_for_clunkers

WASHINGTON – The Obama administration plans to end the popular $3 billion Cash for Clunkers program on Monday, giving car shoppers a few more days to take advantage of big government incentives.

The Transportation Department said Thursday the government will wind down the program on Monday at 8 p.m. EDT. Car buyers can receive rebates of $3,500 or $4,500 for trading in older vehicles for new, more fuel-efficient models.

...
 
Problem is the dealers are NOT getting their money for these clunkers!

My guess is there are three reasons for that:
1) The government does not have a lot of people to process the claims and they just added more to speed things up.
2) I bet a lot of the paper work is not correctly submitted by the dealers and therefore needs to be resubmitted with the proper paper work correctly.
3) I bet some of the cars dealers took in as clunkers were not eligible.
 
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