Well what can i say. I finally got my Jbl amp and i hooked up my one of my new Infinity Kappa speaker. At first it was so quiet i couldn't hear it. So I had to turn up the "gain" all the way up on the amp and then i could finally listen to the speaker. Overall It was alright i guess, but the hiss that i used to have and that i thought was associated with the stock stereo, is still there. What a bummer since I think it does not sound significantly better than the stock system. Once again i haven't had them installed in the old space but eh... just dissapointed for now. I wired up my subs and i hope they won't dissapoint. I dropped $490 on the interior speakers and amp... bummer.
Stereo Project dissapointment.
- Thread starter maxmk8
- Start date
RE: Stereo Project dissapointment.
For the heck of it... i installed the original headunit and listened to the radio on the original speakers... and you guessed it, it sounded much better than my current setup... i don't get it. The clarity isn't there. There is a hissing that the old system just doesn't have. On a scale of 1-10 old system is a 7 new system is a 5. Sigh... maybe you guys can shine some light on this.
For the heck of it... i installed the original headunit and listened to the radio on the original speakers... and you guessed it, it sounded much better than my current setup... i don't get it. The clarity isn't there. There is a hissing that the old system just doesn't have. On a scale of 1-10 old system is a 7 new system is a 5. Sigh... maybe you guys can shine some light on this.
MaddShadez
Registered
RE: Stereo Project dissapointment.
Several questions,
1. Was the speaker installed when you listened to it? Just hooking up an amp to a speaker in freeair will produce very little sound due to cancelation, it has to be in the doors or box.
2. Did you run all new wiring? I cannot recomend enough that you do NOT use the stock wiring. It's thin, junky (noisy) and there is the issue with crossovers to deal with. 16 gauge wiring is like .20 a foot. I ran 6 rows or wiring all through-out the car for under $20. You don't need nearly that much, especially if you mount the crossovers up front.
3. Are you using RCA (patch) cables fromm the head unit to the amp? If not, USE THEM! It makes a HUGE impact on noise. A set of Zero Noise 2.0 from Streetwires are fairly cheap, and help considerably. And don't run them near you amp power cables.
4. Turn down the gains!!!! It's the #1 mistake newer people make in car audio. The gains are not a volume control, they simply match the amp to the input voltage from your head unit. Ensure steps 1-3 are taken, then when you are ready, turn the gains all the way down on your amp. Turn the volume on the head unit up to 2/3 the way. Then slowly turn the gains up on the amp until you hear distortion. When your hear it, turn the gain back down a tad, and leave it.
dj
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/2/web/602000-602999/602027_21.jpg
^^^^^^My 3 Babies!!!^^^^^^
Several questions,
1. Was the speaker installed when you listened to it? Just hooking up an amp to a speaker in freeair will produce very little sound due to cancelation, it has to be in the doors or box.
2. Did you run all new wiring? I cannot recomend enough that you do NOT use the stock wiring. It's thin, junky (noisy) and there is the issue with crossovers to deal with. 16 gauge wiring is like .20 a foot. I ran 6 rows or wiring all through-out the car for under $20. You don't need nearly that much, especially if you mount the crossovers up front.
3. Are you using RCA (patch) cables fromm the head unit to the amp? If not, USE THEM! It makes a HUGE impact on noise. A set of Zero Noise 2.0 from Streetwires are fairly cheap, and help considerably. And don't run them near you amp power cables.
4. Turn down the gains!!!! It's the #1 mistake newer people make in car audio. The gains are not a volume control, they simply match the amp to the input voltage from your head unit. Ensure steps 1-3 are taken, then when you are ready, turn the gains all the way down on your amp. Turn the volume on the head unit up to 2/3 the way. Then slowly turn the gains up on the amp until you hear distortion. When your hear it, turn the gain back down a tad, and leave it.
dj
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/2/web/602000-602999/602027_21.jpg
^^^^^^My 3 Babies!!!^^^^^^
RE: Stereo Project dissapointment.
I'm using the RCA cables that came with my Knudosconcepts. The speakers are not mounted yet since i wanted to listen to them first and find out if they work. I'm sure that they could be louder than my factory setup even though they are hooked up free air now but that is NOT the issue. I wanted to improve sound quality. I hooked the crossover input wires DIRECTLY into the amp so there are no wires that could be causing this prob. I think it might be my SONY CDX M850 that is the prob with all this. Since the stock system produces a much clearer sound. I'm going to go and buy a new headunit today and hook it up for the heck of it in the back where my amp is and see if the noise is still there, if it is... well then i'm going to sell my amp and the 2 sets of kappas.
Btw thanks for all the help i really appreciate it.
I'm using the RCA cables that came with my Knudosconcepts. The speakers are not mounted yet since i wanted to listen to them first and find out if they work. I'm sure that they could be louder than my factory setup even though they are hooked up free air now but that is NOT the issue. I wanted to improve sound quality. I hooked the crossover input wires DIRECTLY into the amp so there are no wires that could be causing this prob. I think it might be my SONY CDX M850 that is the prob with all this. Since the stock system produces a much clearer sound. I'm going to go and buy a new headunit today and hook it up for the heck of it in the back where my amp is and see if the noise is still there, if it is... well then i'm going to sell my amp and the 2 sets of kappas.
Btw thanks for all the help i really appreciate it.
sleeper
Former LOD President
RE: Stereo Project dissapointment.
You are incorrect that the speakers could be louder than the factory speakers when hooked up free air. The speakers will bottom out and distort with less power when hooked up free air, and you will get cancellation because you are not separating the waves from the front of the speaker from the waves from the back of the speaker. Also, if the gain is turned up this will cause excess noise as well, and reduce sound quality.
Trust me, a pair of kappas and a mediocre amp will produce better sound than the stock system.
I'm currently running with just one pair of kicker components hooked up to an old-school Lanzar Opti-Drive 100 amp for mids and highs, and it's clear and loud. Clearer and louder than the factory JBL system.
You are incorrect that the speakers could be louder than the factory speakers when hooked up free air. The speakers will bottom out and distort with less power when hooked up free air, and you will get cancellation because you are not separating the waves from the front of the speaker from the waves from the back of the speaker. Also, if the gain is turned up this will cause excess noise as well, and reduce sound quality.
Trust me, a pair of kappas and a mediocre amp will produce better sound than the stock system.
I'm currently running with just one pair of kicker components hooked up to an old-school Lanzar Opti-Drive 100 amp for mids and highs, and it's clear and loud. Clearer and louder than the factory JBL system.
MaddShadez
Registered
RE: Stereo Project dissapointment.
[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
You are incorrect that the speakers could be louder than the factory speakers when hooked up free air. The speakers will bottom out and distort with less power when hooked up free air, and you will get cancellation because you are not separating the waves from the front of the speaker from the waves from the back of the speaker. Also, if the gain is turned up this will cause excess noise as well, and reduce sound quality.Trust me, a pair of kappas and a mediocre amp will produce better sound than the stock system.I'm currently running with just one pair of kicker components hooked up to an old-school Lanzar Opti-Drive 100 amp for mids and highs, and it's clear and loud. Clearer and louder than the factory JBL system.
[/div]
X2
It was in dave's car I first heard the kappa's and loved them. I've heard them several times since, and they really are a great bang for the buck. But they have to be installed. They will sound like azz freeair.
With the gains all they way up you will definalty get a hiss, keep them down for lower distortion. Install the speakers in the car, then listen to them. It will change everything. (and if you do buy a headunit, don't get a sony)
If after properly installing the speakers and hooking it all up you still think it sounds like crap, I may just buy it all off of you. My wife's stang could use a pick me up in the stereo department. But install it first, please!
dj
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/2/web/602000-602999/602027_21.jpg
^^^^^^My 3 Babies!!!^^^^^^
[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
You are incorrect that the speakers could be louder than the factory speakers when hooked up free air. The speakers will bottom out and distort with less power when hooked up free air, and you will get cancellation because you are not separating the waves from the front of the speaker from the waves from the back of the speaker. Also, if the gain is turned up this will cause excess noise as well, and reduce sound quality.Trust me, a pair of kappas and a mediocre amp will produce better sound than the stock system.I'm currently running with just one pair of kicker components hooked up to an old-school Lanzar Opti-Drive 100 amp for mids and highs, and it's clear and loud. Clearer and louder than the factory JBL system.
[/div]
X2
It was in dave's car I first heard the kappa's and loved them. I've heard them several times since, and they really are a great bang for the buck. But they have to be installed. They will sound like azz freeair.
With the gains all they way up you will definalty get a hiss, keep them down for lower distortion. Install the speakers in the car, then listen to them. It will change everything. (and if you do buy a headunit, don't get a sony)
If after properly installing the speakers and hooking it all up you still think it sounds like crap, I may just buy it all off of you. My wife's stang could use a pick me up in the stereo department. But install it first, please!
dj
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/2/web/602000-602999/602027_21.jpg
^^^^^^My 3 Babies!!!^^^^^^
RE: Stereo Project dissapointment.
What you're describing should not happen if everything is set right.
If your problem is a constant HISSSSS (not a buzz), then there's nothing at all wrong with your speakers or amp. If you had to turn the gain ALL the way up on your amp, then THAT'S where you're getting the hiss. The speakers have absolutely nothing to do with it. If your amp isn't getting a strong enough signal from your head unit, the signal (music) gets buried in with the noise that all stereo components generate. When you turn the gain up "all the way", you not only increase the volume of the music, but the noise along with it. You need a strong, clean signal that is far enough above the background noise to make the noise inaudible.
Are you absolutely sure you've got everything hooked up and set right on the amp? Does the amp come with a built-in crossover or something? What about settings for input voltage? If the amp has the ability to take regular speaker-level inputs and you've got it set for that, you'll get the effect you're talking about. Look at the manual and see if there's a switch for setting input voltage. If there is, set it to the LOWEST voltage setting. Just be sure to turn the gain back down before you fire it up again, or you'll get BLASTED! Then follow MaddShadez advice about setting levels (start with head unit's volume at 75%, THEN adjust the amp's gain).
It'd be a damn shame to take all that stuff back because you missed a switch somewhere.
What you're describing should not happen if everything is set right.
If your problem is a constant HISSSSS (not a buzz), then there's nothing at all wrong with your speakers or amp. If you had to turn the gain ALL the way up on your amp, then THAT'S where you're getting the hiss. The speakers have absolutely nothing to do with it. If your amp isn't getting a strong enough signal from your head unit, the signal (music) gets buried in with the noise that all stereo components generate. When you turn the gain up "all the way", you not only increase the volume of the music, but the noise along with it. You need a strong, clean signal that is far enough above the background noise to make the noise inaudible.
Are you absolutely sure you've got everything hooked up and set right on the amp? Does the amp come with a built-in crossover or something? What about settings for input voltage? If the amp has the ability to take regular speaker-level inputs and you've got it set for that, you'll get the effect you're talking about. Look at the manual and see if there's a switch for setting input voltage. If there is, set it to the LOWEST voltage setting. Just be sure to turn the gain back down before you fire it up again, or you'll get BLASTED! Then follow MaddShadez advice about setting levels (start with head unit's volume at 75%, THEN adjust the amp's gain).
It'd be a damn shame to take all that stuff back because you missed a switch somewhere.
RE: Stereo Project dissapointment.
Thanks for the tips guys. Well to clarify things first.
About the free air-I was just saying that clearly the kappas are louder than the stock speakers i can tell that already without having them installed.
About the Input Voltages/gain- Well i had it all the way down and there was BARELY any sound comming at all, so i have the gain set at about 1/2 right now now and it is at the levels the system was on before. I'm going to put them in now and wire everything back together since i relocated the speakers and my headunit in the trunk to make sure wiring wasn't the issue. Now i'm beeing REALLY picky here i mean that noise is noticable but i'd say 7/10 ppl won't notice it, I just wanted crystal clear sound (At low volumes) at high volume the sound is clear and the way it is supposed to be.
Thanks for the tips guys. Well to clarify things first.
About the free air-I was just saying that clearly the kappas are louder than the stock speakers i can tell that already without having them installed.
About the Input Voltages/gain- Well i had it all the way down and there was BARELY any sound comming at all, so i have the gain set at about 1/2 right now now and it is at the levels the system was on before. I'm going to put them in now and wire everything back together since i relocated the speakers and my headunit in the trunk to make sure wiring wasn't the issue. Now i'm beeing REALLY picky here i mean that noise is noticable but i'd say 7/10 ppl won't notice it, I just wanted crystal clear sound (At low volumes) at high volume the sound is clear and the way it is supposed to be.
RE: Stereo Project dissapointment.
By the way, I missed the part where you said you're using a crossover. I assume it's a line-level crossover. Make sure the OUTPUT on the high-pass is set at about 75%. If they're set too low, you WOULD have to turn the gains up on the amp, which will cause the hiss. Anyway, leave the outputs set high on the crossover, then make your "gross" level adjustment at the amp (so the tweeters are approximately balanced with the mids). Then you can tweak (minor adjustments) the highs with the crosover from then on.
Rule of thumb on level adjusting is that you ALWAYS start with the head unit and work back to the amp. At EACH component along the way, you want as strong (loud) a signal going out of it as you can without causing distortion.
By the way, I missed the part where you said you're using a crossover. I assume it's a line-level crossover. Make sure the OUTPUT on the high-pass is set at about 75%. If they're set too low, you WOULD have to turn the gains up on the amp, which will cause the hiss. Anyway, leave the outputs set high on the crossover, then make your "gross" level adjustment at the amp (so the tweeters are approximately balanced with the mids). Then you can tweak (minor adjustments) the highs with the crosover from then on.
Rule of thumb on level adjusting is that you ALWAYS start with the head unit and work back to the amp. At EACH component along the way, you want as strong (loud) a signal going out of it as you can without causing distortion.
RE: Stereo Project dissapointment.
The crossover came with the speakers. There are no adjustments possible on it.
Hey ... anyways.. if someone wants 2 sets of kappas and the JBL px300.4 amp for $400 for the whole set... basically brand new.... let me know... this is just not worth it.
The crossover came with the speakers. There are no adjustments possible on it.
Hey ... anyways.. if someone wants 2 sets of kappas and the JBL px300.4 amp for $400 for the whole set... basically brand new.... let me know... this is just not worth it.
MaddShadez
Registered
RE: Stereo Project dissapointment.
Anytime you play a speaker free air it will be quiet. WHen I first got my L7 I put 1000 watts on it free air, could hear a thing. Cancellation kills.
Once the speakers are in the doors, everything will change.
dj
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/2/web/602000-602999/602027_21.jpg
^^^^^^My 3 Babies!!!^^^^^^
Anytime you play a speaker free air it will be quiet. WHen I first got my L7 I put 1000 watts on it free air, could hear a thing. Cancellation kills.
Once the speakers are in the doors, everything will change.
dj
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/2/web/602000-602999/602027_21.jpg
^^^^^^My 3 Babies!!!^^^^^^
MaddShadez
Registered
RE: Stereo Project dissapointment.
[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
The crossover came with the speakers. There are no adjustments possible on it.Hey ... anyways.. if someone wants 2 sets of kappas and the JBL px300.4 amp for $400 for the whole set... basically brand new.... let me know... this is just not worth it.
[/div]
No one said car audio was easy. Run the wires, hook up the amp and install the speakers before making your opinion. You owe it to yourself. Don't spend that much only to give up when the going gets tough.
dj
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/2/web/602000-602999/602027_21.jpg
^^^^^^My 3 Babies!!!^^^^^^
[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
The crossover came with the speakers. There are no adjustments possible on it.Hey ... anyways.. if someone wants 2 sets of kappas and the JBL px300.4 amp for $400 for the whole set... basically brand new.... let me know... this is just not worth it.
[/div]
No one said car audio was easy. Run the wires, hook up the amp and install the speakers before making your opinion. You owe it to yourself. Don't spend that much only to give up when the going gets tough.
dj
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/2/web/602000-602999/602027_21.jpg
^^^^^^My 3 Babies!!!^^^^^^
RE: Stereo Project dissapointment.
[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]The crossover came with the speakers. There are no adjustments possible on it.Hey ... anyways.. if someone wants 2 sets of kappas and the JBL px300.4 amp for $400 for the whole set... basically brand new.... let me know... this is just not worth it. [/div]No one said car audio was easy. Run the wires, hook up the amp and install the speakers before making your opinion. You owe it to yourself. Don't spend that much only to give up when the going gets tough.djhttp://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/2/web/602000-602999/602027_21.jpg^^^^^^My 3 Babies!!!^^^^^^
[/div]
Thanks man. Thanks for the encouragement words... Wow... 4 hrs later I'm finally done with the fronts!!! They sound pretty darn good. I think this whole deal was worth it. Good bass good highs. Better than the stock setup for sure. And thats just with only the 2 fronts running. Phew... rewired the whole speakers... door panels off etc etc.... the rears are comming in some time by the end of the week. I think i'll try to put in my subs now... Man it was such a pain in the ass running the wire through the rubber connector in the door!! hehehe but once again thanks everyone for encouraging me...
[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]The crossover came with the speakers. There are no adjustments possible on it.Hey ... anyways.. if someone wants 2 sets of kappas and the JBL px300.4 amp for $400 for the whole set... basically brand new.... let me know... this is just not worth it. [/div]No one said car audio was easy. Run the wires, hook up the amp and install the speakers before making your opinion. You owe it to yourself. Don't spend that much only to give up when the going gets tough.djhttp://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/2/web/602000-602999/602027_21.jpg^^^^^^My 3 Babies!!!^^^^^^
[/div]
Thanks man. Thanks for the encouragement words... Wow... 4 hrs later I'm finally done with the fronts!!! They sound pretty darn good. I think this whole deal was worth it. Good bass good highs. Better than the stock setup for sure. And thats just with only the 2 fronts running. Phew... rewired the whole speakers... door panels off etc etc.... the rears are comming in some time by the end of the week. I think i'll try to put in my subs now... Man it was such a pain in the ass running the wire through the rubber connector in the door!! hehehe but once again thanks everyone for encouraging me...
MaddShadez
Registered
RE: Stereo Project dissapointment.
Running the wires through that grommet is the biggest PITA of the whole operation sometimes. I've had to do it dozens of times (I have 3 pairs or wires per door, grr) I'm glad you have it installed, and I'd definatly glad you like the sound. Although my wife is a little sad, she was hoping I would buy your system,
dj
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/2/web/602000-602999/602027_21.jpg
^^^^^^My 3 Babies!!!^^^^^^
Running the wires through that grommet is the biggest PITA of the whole operation sometimes. I've had to do it dozens of times (I have 3 pairs or wires per door, grr) I'm glad you have it installed, and I'd definatly glad you like the sound. Although my wife is a little sad, she was hoping I would buy your system,
dj
http://memimage.cardomain.com/member_images/2/web/602000-602999/602027_21.jpg
^^^^^^My 3 Babies!!!^^^^^^
RE: Stereo Project dissapointment.
I guarantee the JBL amp will be making almost no hiss of it's own, even at very high levels. You can check this out by disconnecting everything except the amps and speakers, (no crossovers, head unit, etc.). They're some of the quietest amps made!
John
[link:mark8.org/lodnca|NorCal Chapter Website]
http://mark8.org/users/johnaec/Mark_VIII_s.jpg
'97 Mark VIII LSC
'96 T-Bird 4.6L
I guarantee the JBL amp will be making almost no hiss of it's own, even at very high levels. You can check this out by disconnecting everything except the amps and speakers, (no crossovers, head unit, etc.). They're some of the quietest amps made!
John
[link:mark8.org/lodnca|NorCal Chapter Website]
http://mark8.org/users/johnaec/Mark_VIII_s.jpg
'97 Mark VIII LSC
'96 T-Bird 4.6L