TOP GUN!

RE: TOP GUN!


That's a nice picture. I would like to sit around all day and snap shots of you and see what I could come up with.

Again, you’re taking this out on me, not the discussion.

A man without religion is a lost soul. I will pray for you.

Please see my other post regarding this issue.

So in less than two years, Bush made the world hate us. Not Clinton, Not Carter, Not even holier-than-thou Kennedy?

No, of course not, every single person on this earth has the right to have mistakes, but Bush has outnumber every other person significantly, so your agreeing that he's stupid, but you want me to remember what the other presidents did? I don’t care about what they did back then. If this discussion was 10, 20 years ago, it might have been about another president, but this is TODAY, not yesterday. I’m not going to dwell on George Washington’s mistakes today for example, because there is no need for that.

I would never run for public office. What a joke. Skeletons? I've got a closet full. GPA? HA! I was too smart!:) DUI? Me? YES! Over 20 years ago, Halloween night. Lots and Lots of POT back then. Never been busted. Unlike Clinton, I would be man enough to admit I inhaled...several times. No regrets in my life. Thanks.

Why are you trying to justify every mistake bush made by comparing him to another president else mistake? I'm going to comment when someone does something wrong, regardless of who it is, I don’t give a crap about Clinton, who do you think I am? Clinton’s lawyer?


Share your wisdom. Instead of criticizing everything you see or read, give us something constructive. Something to chew on. Maybe you can convert me.

Sure, I would but I’m afraid you might miss read them again :p

I guess an Iraqi life is worth far less in your mind than a Canadian, Venezuelan, Nigerian, Icelander,etc. You get the point. Saddam decided to kill thousands of his own people. It was unfortunately necessary to kill those thousands to save hundreds of thousands. And that's bad? Millions have a chance at freedom. Too bad you have never known what it is like to live in fear every day as millions of those Iraqi men, women and children did. What? We didn't need to kill thousands? What should we have done? How would you have solved the situation. 4000 Americans, (innocent people), (without provocation), were MURDERED. Because you have no religion,(as you stated) I can see how that might sit easy in your conscience.

Don’t give me that, the Bushes never care for Iraqis, this has been going on for 20years, and no one has said anything, all of the sudden he cares?? Bush also doesn’t give a rat’s ass for Arabs without any oil. I don’t see him in Sudan helping those dying of starvation everyday.
Again, 9/11 has noooooooooooooothing to do with Iraq, I’m sorry your stuck in the bubble still. This is the very exact problem I’m attacking Bush of, but since you have already eaten the bait, don’t expect me to able to convince you otherwise.


I'm listening!!!! Actually reading and typing, typing and reading!!!
And Moe, if you can't keep it clean, don't bother.

I’m sorry if I said something that offended you, honestly.
 
RE: TOP GUN!

I looked around the internet and found a bunch of things that state that it can't be proved that Bush wasn't a deserter. I have found nothing proving he was AWOL or a deserter. Last time i checked, it's innocent until proven guilty. Do you have proof?
 
RE: TOP GUN!


So in less than two years, Bush made the world hate us. Not Clinton, Not Carter, Not even holier-than-thou Kennedy?

No, of course not, every single person on this earth has the right to have mistakes, but Bush has outnumber every other person significantly, so your agreeing that he's stupid, but you want me to remember what the other presidents did? I don’t care about what they did back then. If this discussion was 10, 20 years ago, it might have been about another president, but this is TODAY, not yesterday. I’m not going to dwell on George Washington’s mistakes today for example, because there is no need for that.

[/i]

I didn't see any agreement that he's stupid. Please cite some of these mistakes. Also, how, after 8 years under a democrat, did Bush manage to piss off the entire Arab world in less than a year?


I would never run for public office. What a joke. Skeletons? I've got a closet full. GPA? HA! I was too smart!:) DUI? Me? YES! Over 20 years ago, Halloween night. Lots and Lots of POT back then. Never been busted. Unlike Clinton, I would be man enough to admit I inhaled...several times. No regrets in my life. Thanks.

Why are you trying to justify every mistake bush made by comparing him to another president else mistake? I'm going to comment when someone does something wrong, regardless of who it is, I don’t give a crap about Clinton, who do you think I am? Clinton’s lawyer?


I haven't seen you cite any mistakes that affect public policy, so it seems to me that Bryan is simply justifying the mistakes that we all know about. The gist here is that he can't condemn a man for mistakes he's made in the past, in his personal life (nor can I). This is why i don't care that Clinton was a philanderer, just that he's a socialist.


Share your wisdom. Instead of criticizing everything you see or read, give us something constructive. Something to chew on. Maybe you can convert me.

Sure, I would but I’m afraid you might miss read them again :p


That's taking the easy way out, buddy. Why don't you try to convince us? We're all reasonable, intelligent people here. Just please try to back up what you say with facts from a reliable source.


I guess an Iraqi life is worth far less in your mind than a Canadian, Venezuelan, Nigerian, Icelander,etc. You get the point. Saddam decided to kill thousands of his own people. It was unfortunately necessary to kill those thousands to save hundreds of thousands. And that's bad? Millions have a chance at freedom. Too bad you have never known what it is like to live in fear every day as millions of those Iraqi men, women and children did. What? We didn't need to kill thousands? What should we have done? How would you have solved the situation. 4000 Americans, (innocent people), (without provocation), were MURDERED. Because you have no religion,(as you stated) I can see how that might sit easy in your conscience.

Don’t give me that, the Bushes never care for Iraqis, this has been going on for 20years, and no one has said anything, all of the sudden he cares?? Bush also doesn’t give a rat’s ass for Arabs without any oil. I don’t see him in Sudan helping those dying of starvation everyday.
Again, 9/11 has noooooooooooooothing to do with Iraq, I’m sorry your stuck in the bubble still. This is the very exact problem I’m attacking Bush of, but since you have already eaten the bait, don’t expect me to able to convince you otherwise.


Well, the last time a Republican was in office, we went to war with Iraq. Then we had 8 years of Clinton, and he launched plenty of missiles at them, and nobody protested. Now we have a Republican in office again, and we took them out. And prior to all of that (back in the days of the Iraq-Iran war), he was our friend.

Keep in mind, the whole humanitarian side of this conflict is just a bonus, to make us all feel warm and fuzzy inside. The real reason for this war was to protect our national security. Not to free the Iraqis. If we made it a policy to go and fight in every country that oppresses it's people, we'd be in trouble quick. China anyone?


I'm listening!!!! Actually reading and typing, typing and reading!!!
And Moe, if you can't keep it clean, don't bother.

I’m sorry if I said something that offended you, honestly.


I'm not offended. Just not swayed. Please enlighten me.

And please answer my question above, what is the "actual problem"? I'm just dying to find out.

What's wrong witht the quote function on this board? You can't quote more than one passage?
 
RE: TOP GUN!

Its way too beautiful outside to be reading/posting on this right now, but I did/will.

I doubt very seriously that 95% of the world hates us. The only ones who claim to hate us are the ones whom we threaten. Hate is a result of anger, anger is a product of fear, fear is a lack of faith. The faithless will lash out in fear of losing. The lashing out is viewed as "news". Who will report on the complacent and/or agreeables? The news is top heavy with "interesting" footage of America bashers. Face it, the reporters are just trying to make a living too.

If we continue to point out the fallacies of the world, we will be hated by some, but cherished by the fruits of out labor. We are the leaders of the world because the world wants us to be. We are sorely outnumbered, yet we still prevail. The world is wise enough to know that our causes are just. Have faith.

Its a good thing that we aren't a democracy, but a republic. We elect leaders to represent our views in controlled debate forums, not easily swayed by polls. However, the information age somewhat corrupts the debate process with "news" reports of political unrest. The elected leaders are increasingly subject to the tides of public opinion. A great example of a true democracy is a lynch mob- All in favor of hanging _________, say I... OK, majority rules, let's hang 'em. If we lived in a democracy, we would cause damage without individual accountability. At least we have a presidential figurehead to blame for our woes.

Thank God for the freedom to debate in America (even with the influence of outsiders).
 
RE: TOP GUN!

eave because you never get a leave. That is something the active military gets.

When in the Reserves you have an obligation to make X number of meetings per year. If you don't, you will be put on active duty. If you miss meetings and get behind, you will be given a chance to make them up before that would happen.

If all of this were true, they should court marshall whoever gave him an honorable discharge.

This is just more "Mean Spirited Liberal BS"

http://members.tccoa.com/lastmrk/Images/lastmrk2.jpg
 
RE: TOP GUN!

Moe, sorry I haven't got back to you sooner. I just walked in the door. I went to the office at 4:40 this morning. I was tired last night and should not have posted.

I apologize for mis-reading your post. I thought you had stated that you didn't have a religion. My mistake, my apologies again. Yes, I did read, and re-read, and re-read your post as I was posting. Sorry.

Look, everybody has skeletons. I have my share, I'm sure you have yours, etc. How somebody behaves in OFFICE is what counts. What you have done before or do after serving in office does not matter to me. I think Clinton did a great job of dimishing the Presidential Office. That is my opinion. I'll stand by it today or 30 years from now. I partied big-time in college. I'm sure I was over the limit in half my classes just de-toxing after a big night. I'm sure Bush did much the same. It is a phase of life. Do I want to 20 year old to be President? No. So who cares what somebody did 20 years ago. If Bush didn't get good grades, so what! Does that make him stupid? Most of the wealthiest people in this country didn't get a college degree. I don't hire people with a college degree because they have one. Especially if they throw their resume in my face. Doesn't mean a thing in the real world. How you handle life's tosses and turns is what matters. In regards to my comment using the word "correct", I was not saying you are wrong. Maybe the word "adjusted" would be more appropriate.:p Bush inherited a sinking economy. Clinton stayed in office because of a bubble. Bush has deal with the new world threats that Clinton ignored. Those are the facts.

Ron, I'm sorry. I do not know anything about the AWOL issue. I will do some research into it and give you my opinion. I will call a spade a spade. If somebody's got it coming to them, everybody knows I won't pull any punches, no matter who it is.

Scott. Your right. I don't know if Gore would be making decisions 1/2 wrong. I think he is so far to the left that it scares the dickens out of me. You know, if he had been elected President, he would be trying to take the car keys out of your pocket right now. He is a liar, and when you lie when your in office, or running for it, that is a huge problem in my book.

Dr.Dave and Dave. I want to respond to you guys. I am proud to be going to my son's Confirmation and 1st Communion right now. I will post tonight after I've had 10 beers.:+ OK?

And Moe, we are still waiting for your opinion of the "Real Problem" so we all can solve it together.



'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
 
RE: TOP GUN!

What we know is that there is no record of him serving from May 1972 to May 1973.

[a href="http://www.boston.com/news/politics/campaign2000/news/One_year_gap_in_Bush_s_Guard_duty+.shtml"]One-year gap in Bush's National Guard duty[/a]

If he HAD served during that time, you'd think there would have been an effort by now to prove it. Yet no attempt has ever been made, other than a few lame excuses like "I don't remember what I was doing at that time".

It's also important to remember is that his father was a high-ranking official at that time, having been appointed as UN Ambassador by Nixon (and later as Chairman of the Republican National Committee). So it's not like he didn't have friends in high places. If it weren't for that, it's very likely he would have been serving in Vietnam rather than in the Texas Air National Guard.

It may be mean-spirited, but it's not BS.
 
RE: TOP GUN!

Bush wasn't active duty though. I did a quick search (yes that is the extent of my research on this subject) and sure enough, all the sites i've read (most were liberally biased) mention that he didn't show up for a year. None offer proof that he deserted or went AWOL, but they cite an absence of proof that he showed up. Either way, if he wasn't on active duty, he wasn't AWOL or a deserter. From what i've read, he dicked around for awhile (actually helped with a senatorial campaign), then went back and crammed in all his necessary service right before the deadline. His commanders thought that was sufficient to not force him into active duty (well maybe being a Bush helped, but so what). Either way, he served this country in the military, to the satisfaction of his superiors, and is not guilty of any crime. From what i've gathered. From the liberal sites.

Does anyone have anything to add?
 
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Not much to add Dave. It'd be a stretch to call him a deserter or AWOL, but it's equally a stretch to call him any kind of military hero. It certainly seems he was more interested in politics than performing his duties. Did he break the rules? Did his father play a role? We don't know and probably never will. Does any of this even matter? As has been pointed out already, we've all done stupid things in the past. But if we're going to use that argument, we can't be selective in who we apply it to.
 
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Dave,

I was told that even if you are not on active duty, showing is NOT optional. You have to be there for the training. Surely someone here has served in the National Guard? Please enlighten us. I was in the Canadian Reserves, and you had to show up, or else...although they did have a deal that if you didn't like being in, you were able to make the choice to stay or leave after basic training.
 
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See post #25 above. I don't know how it is now but when I was in the reserves you could miss occasionally. You may not get promoted but you could miss without being AWOL. I never heard of that in the reserves. Like I said, if you missed too much you would be put on active duty.

If when on your annual 2 week active duty you would leave without permision, that probably would be AWOL.

http://members.tccoa.com/lastmrk/Images/lastmrk2.jpg
 
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Well, it's obvious that "important" people get special treatment. It is unfair to lambast Bush for taking advantage of the special treatment available to him. It is a very long stretch to call it a crime. Irresponsible, maybe, but the guy was working on a senatorial campaign, so obviously some strings could be pulled.
 
RE: TOP GUN!

This topic is very interesting, controversial and pointed. Reminds me a lot of why we take up arms in the first place -- Freedom of Speech. Plus, add in all the other freedoms. Hmmm. Are there really any wrongs here?
Also, remember "the facts" always change. The "Truth" is always constant and never wrong. I seem to recall a few years back -- 511 to be exact -- that it was a fact that our earth was flat. The truth was different.
 
RE: TOP GUN!

Who says the Earth is not flat?:7
Click to expand...

I dunno, I have always driven on flat roads.



By the way, there are still, till this day organizations that believe the earth is really flat, and that NASA used computer graphics to refine the satellite photos.
 
RE: TOP GUN!

"Hero" is really stretching it. "Veteran" probably implies a lot more service than was actually rendered, although it might technically be accurate.

However calling W a veteran IMHO really dilutes the 23 years my Dad gave the USAF on active duty, and the Nipponese bullets my grandfather took in the Phillipines or the H-bomb experiments he was exposed to at Bikini Atoll. Those guys and people like them are veterans, and heros.

Bush is the "Commander in Chief" because he is President, not because of any military credentials on his resume.
 
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Personally I'm impressed he has what it takes to fly jet fighters, and is in fact a good pilot and a good thinker according to his evals. Being a good jet fighter pilot is no small thing IMO.

-Joel.
 
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