half a second for $40

I got my car back from the bodyshop on Tuesday, and i started playing with it on the tazzo (www.tazzo.com) when i got it back.

When I started (with exhaust, no cats, j-mod, and dyno tune) i was running consistent 15.3's with a best of 15.07.

The first thing i did was to install an '02 GT airbox, which i had bought for $35. This airbox has a cone filter in it, and bolted to my stock MAF with some minor modification. I also cut the tube for it, and my stock tube. Then i had to put a piece of PVC in the stock tube, with some epoxy putty, clamped the new tube on the PVC. Of course, i used the thinner PVC, and i smoothed out the edges with a dremel (for that extra .005 hp ). Anyway, that knocked off a consistent .1 seconds. My car was running on occasional 14.9 or high 14.8, with consistent 15.1-15.2 times. The weather was slightly cooler after i put in the airbox, but less than 10 degrees. The fuel load was the same. Anyway, i felt justified in attributing a .1 second improvement to this modification.

The next step was to put in the 180 degree thermostat i've had on my desk for about a year now. It was just as much of a pain as i'd been expecting, but it was worth it. This morning the car was doing about the same as before (after the airbox), which was to be expected. The fuel load was about the same, and the temperature was about the same. After i got the thermostat in, it had cooled down about 5 degrees. Once it was up at operating temperature (the needle looked the same, though) i got a few good runs. I ran a 14.66, then turned around and ran a 14.68 going in the other direction. (fuel tank very low). I ran consistent 14.7's-14.8's.

So i went from a best of 15.07 to a best of 14.66, for $40. I went from a consistent 15.2-15.3 to a consistent 14.7-14.8. Now, if i can knock off another half a second for another $40...

The important thing here, is that i am now ahead of my friend who has a supercharged XR7. his best so far on my tazzo is 14.79.

My best 60' so far is still 2.37, so i have some definite improvements to make. The next step is gears, i think. That should help a lot.

RE: half a second for $40

Sweet, have you tested how accurate those are on the track before?
Speaking out of ignorance only, not questioning it or anything. Never used one yet.

RE: half a second for $40

I haven't tested it at the track yet, but it's supposed to be more accurate than a gtech, and i've seen people test gtechs at the track, and they're as they say in the commercials, within a tenth. As long as it is consistent, though, it's a pretty good guage of improvement.

RE: half a second for $40

As long as it is consistent.

Click to expand...

Yes, exactly! I think I should take a closer look at it.

RE: half a second for $40

.............My best 60' so far is still 2.37, so i have some definite improvements to make. The next step is gears, i think. That should help a lot.

Click to expand...

Sounds interesting Dave. You need to post pic's of your setup. I noticed my 60' times seemed to be off from what the track shows slightly also with my Tazzo. It could be an system flaw like the 1/4-mile trap speed with the G-Tech's.

** Bill **
1995 LSC-R'ed w/Recaro's and Cobra R's
Veteran of Carlisle 2000/01/02
[a href=//cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=258112]For Pic's and Mods click here[/a]

...Except for ending slavery, fascism, nazism, and communism, WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING...

RE: half a second for $40

Now you see..THIS is an interesting read. Sleeper, I never knew a 180 T-Stat gave actual gains. Actually, I thought everyone who installed them did so for efficiency sake..ala, keep the heat down. Eh hem..informationally challenged here...-=) That is really impressive off of a $40. part. Thanks for the info!

PS- how does it work? (I want to know the science behind this)
PSS- checking pockets for $40. can I borrow $40.?

http://pstr-m02.ygpweb.aol.com/data/001/08/B3/A3/C8/NM-FhQeBSH6UcCy5a-mp43aBaeSUjjc+0060.jpg

RE: half a second for $40

Now you see..THIS is an interesting read. Sleeper, I never knew a 180 T-Stat gave actual gains.

Click to expand...

I honestly didn't expect any measurable gains. But the temps were pretty close before and after and the car ran consistently faster, so i'm not complaining. We'll have to see what it does when i get it to the track. I'm definitely gonna take the Tazzo with me to see how it stacks up against the timing lights.

RE: half a second for $40

Sleeper, I never knew a 180 T-Stat gave actual gains....
PS- how does it work? (I want to know the science behind this)

Click to expand...

It's not so much the Tstat giving gains as it is the Tstat allowing gains.

What happens is controlled by the PCM. Most engines are more efficient at hotter temps but produce more raw power at slightly lower temps. The trick is not to go too low where the computer does not recognize the vehicle has reached operating temperature(or have the PCM reprogrammed to turn on the fan(s) at a lower temperature and recognize the 'lower' temp as normal operating temperature). If the PCM sees the engine is at operating temperature, it will adjust timing differently than at below operating temperature.

Now add the fact each engine is slightly different and peak power is attainable at a different temperature. With the appropriate thermostat more power can be generated even with the same timing signals. But, allow the PCM more latitude in advancing the timing and even more HP can be had - to a point. Remember that more HP = more heat also. Go too far though and the PCM quickly retards timing, pulling power back away. This is why bracket racers 'cool down' between runs.

RE: half a second for $40

driller,

That is definately interesting. Kinda similar to the idea of using 2 step colder plugs. Unfortunately, I have the 2 steps colder in mine and will be yanking them soon. They are too temp specific for my taste.

RE: half a second for $40


Unfortunately, I have the 2 steps colder in mine and will be yanking them soon. They are too temp specific for my taste.
[/quote]

You could look at the plugs in a similar light. 2 step colder plugs could allow more HP, but perhaps in your particular case, you may be better served with one step colder plugs. Only trial and error in your particular setup can determine the preferable combination. But what is almost certain is that nearly everyone(stock) will see some gains with a cooler Tstat and also running colder plugs. Many variables interact to determine exactly how much is enough. Unfortunately it is very easy to go over the top and see diminishing returns.

IMHO, if you feel the 2 step colder plugs were too 'temp specific', perhaps one step colder plugs would be a compromise that would give you satifactory gains with less detriment.

RE: half a second for $40

Would you guys recommend doing this to a daily driver?

Brent

http://www.eden.rutgers.edu/~brenth/markviii/Brent's-Mark-VIII.jpg

RE: half a second for $40

Would you guys recommend doing this to a daily driver?

Click to expand...

Far be it from me to recommend any particular product or mod, but IMHO certainly a 180 degree Tstat and one step colder spark plugs would have no adverse impact on a daily driver. Now perhaps the same could not be said for a 160 degree Tstat and two step colder plugs without extensive consideration. A lot depends on the personal expectations of the driver and what compromises are made.

RE: half a second for $40

Well, my car is a daily driver. I have no cats, full exhaust (2 x's, i went back for the second one to kill the drone), 2 steps colder spark plugs (as long as you get on it often enough, they won't foul, if you drive like a wuss, maybe only go one step colder), the '02 airbox, 180 thermostat, and a tune. I think that's it. I plan on going with 3.73's next, then probably a big stall, then maybe a cobra intake and spray. And it'll still probably be a daily driver, but i am looking into picking up a towncar cheap so that i can baby the mark more. Hmmm... where did i put that lotto ticket...