Anything You Might Say

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96 GoldBird

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May be used against you in a court of law.

A "word to the wise" to owners, mods, administrators and members:

If you have anything negative to say about a vendor, be careful how you say it, or perhaps keep it to yourself. I'm not sure if this is true of all vendors, but in the case of at least one vendor, it is true.

A certain vendor, through his attorney, has sent letters recently to two websites threatening to sue them, seeking to shut them down and obtain damages for things that were posted on their site. This same vendor has sent essentially the same letters to individual members threatening to sue them for damages for things they have posted.

I know this may sound like "old news," but it is not. These letters were received this week.

If you would like to read the full text of one of these letters, and the comments of the members, I refer you to this thread:

http://forums.tccoa.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=48495

-mike


1996 Thunderbird LX
Renegage Heads / CompCamns / OEM Cork NPI intake
245rwhp
13.71

Presently Morphing in Atlanta
 
RE: Anything You Might Say

Did LOD get the same letter ?

I'm so glad I don't have to buy anything from DR.
 
RE: Anything You Might Say

On the bottom of every page...



he Lincolns of Distinction Car Club, Inc., its officers, members, and webmasters assume no liability for any damage, fines, punishment, injury or death resulting from information obtained from this site.


ALSO...


INDEMNIFICATION
Use of this site, signifies your agreement to indemnify and hold harmless Lincolns of Distinction, its officers, members, authors, and webmasters from all claims arising out of or related to your access or use of, or your inability to access or use, our Web site or the information contained in our Web site or other Web sites to which it is linked, including but not limited to claims that you have found something you have heard, viewed or downloaded from our Web site or another website to which it is linked to be obscene, offensive, defamatory, or infringing upon your intellectual property rights.
In no event will Lincolns of Distinction or the contributors of information to our Web site be liable to you or any third party for any decision made or action taken by you in reliance on such information or for any consequential, special or similar damages, even if advised of the possibility of such damages.
By using the Lincolns of Distinction message boards, you agree to indemnify and hold harmless Lincolns of Distinction, its officers, members, and webmasters from any and all claims with respect to any advice, recommendations or information provided therein. Lincolns of Distinction can assume no responsibility or liability for any interaction between people. Those who participate in LOD message board relationships are entirely responsible for their participation, and for the use of the information placed on the message boards, and do so at their own risk.
 
RE: Anything You Might Say

TCCoA and MD have similar type of language in their membership and usage agreement, but that has not stopped the vendor from threatening and attempting to bully the sites. As far as I know, no actual suit has been filed as yet, and whether there is actually a cause of action is a question for an attorney qualified in that field. Apparently the vendor's attorney thinks there is cause, or at least he says he does.

I think what is really scarey is the threats to individuals to suppress honest opinion and experience.

I guess what really matters is whether the owners of the site and/or we as individuals are intimidated into silence by threats of a law suit??


1996 Thunderbird LX
Renegage Heads / CompCamns / OEM Cork NPI intake
245rwhp
13.71

Presently Morphing in Atlanta
 
RE: Anything You Might Say

He's just trying to scare everyone, he doesn’t really have a case, but even if he somewhat remotely MIGHT have one in a blue moon, he just killed most of his business right there which defeats the purpose of trying to sue and protect.

Say... does Dennis sell any performance parts for Lexus'? http://www.z06vette.com/fcalmes/rofl.gif
 
RE: Anything You Might Say

The 1st amendment pretty much protects most of us on this one. We can post pretty much anything we like. This is a public discussion board, not a newspaper.
 
RE: Anything You Might Say

This is an interesting subject. In business, you have two options:
1)to do business with
2)NOT to do business with

I dont know about you folks, but I have discovered the whole concept of "Customer Service" has gone way downhill in the last 10 years. In turn, this has changed what has become expected by customers of the business.

What used to be known as the "motto" of most businesses was "the customer is always right." That is now as ancient history.

I have never done business with the vendor that is the topic of this thread. I cannot give you my opinion of the company, or its owner(s).

But I have heard arguements from both sides of this discussion, and before I would ever consider doing "online" business with ANY vendor/supplier/business, I would have to realize the most commonly over-looked practice, which is: Buyer beware.

There are several reasons why buyers need to watch their own back.
1) product quality
2) where is it coming from
3)who is inspecting these products?
4)who's name is on these products?
5)am I getting what I am paying for(name/size/model)?

The list goes on.

As an example, I recently purchased a Addco rear sway bar for my Mark VIII. I ordered it from a company other than the vendor we are referring to. The "seller" of the part, does NOT stock the part, manufacter the part, or even ever see the part. It is a "farmed out", or "sub-contracted", or "drop-shipped" part. What would I do if the part turned out to be defective? or if it was the wrong size? What if it broke on the road, flew off my car, and punctured one of my tires, sending me into an uncontrollable spin, and forcing me into a cement wall, totalling my car? Would I go after the vendor I purchased the part from, or the manufacturer?

I suppose I could call the place I bought it from, and ask them to reimburse me for the loss of my vehicle while it was in the shop, the added insurance premiums from my high-dollar claim, not to mention the amount of money I would lose since my insurance company would never pay me the amount of money my car is worth plus mods/add-ons, etc.

My whole point is: when you go to make a purchase for your car, or anything for that matter, you have to first choose to do business with a company you think you can trust. You ask around. Once you decide who you are going to hand your money over to, you pretty much have to trust that they are going to provide you with a quality part/job in exchange for the price they are asking.

But if anything should go wrong, that company should stand behind their work. If you find that there is no warranty, or they wont stand behind their work, perhaps you should have known that before ever doing business with them. This is refered to as "doing your homework". Businesses rely alot on their reputation.

In the case of "what if my swaybar broke while...", think about it. Who would you expect to compensate you for your damages? The company you bought the part from, or the company that actually built the bar?

I am amazed at how so many people can do business with a vendor, but as soon as something goes wrong, the first thing they want to do is blame the company who's name is on the invoice.

Lets face it folks. There is an order of "blame", and we all know, it starts with us. If I bought a Addco bar, and it turned out to be junk, I would have to say it was my fault for buying a Addco bar.

If you buy a transmission from someone, I would assume you went with that vendor because they had a good reputation for quality parts, at the right price. If you simply made the purchase because you "heard" that vendor sold quality products, but didnt bother to ask who was building them, then you would have to blame yourself.

Now, on the flip-side(since I know there are alot of hands up right now), if I bought a Addco bar, as advertised, and what I ended up with was a cheap sway bar, made by some half-wit company, painted to look like a Addco bar in every way, that was nothing close to what I ordered, then of course, I could go straight to the seller and ask them why I was sent the wrong part. If the seller explained to me that they did in fact tell Addco to send me the correct bar, and then they found out that I wasnt getting what I paid for, I would expect the seller to rectify the situation the very best way they could.

Ok, enough dribble. I think that these websites are truely exempt from any form of lawsuit. Message boards cannot be held responsible for what its members write. The most they can do is monitor it, and delete/modify/edit anything they see as "not fitting".

But lets face it. The vendor we are talking about has more to lose than any of the poor guys who ended up with the wrong part. he not only has to try to rectify that situation, but he has to try to regain the trust of many of his past, and future customers.

This is a true example of "one bad apple". He had a good thing going. He just made a bad decision with his choice of who to do business with. I think he needs to tell his lawyers to concentrate on the tranny builder, not the angry customers.

This isnt the first time a vendor is suffering from the free-communication of online web-forums. lets face it-when you get screwed, you want payback. The fastest gratification is "getting them back", and what better way to do that, than hit them right in the pocket-book, like they did to you.

But when all is said and done...the only one to blame...is the customer. They took the initial risk. There are hundreds of thousands of transmission builders around.

One more example: you took your car to the Lincoln dealer for a tranny service, that advertised a 25-point inspection, new filter, new Mercon V, and a tranny cooler install for $279.00. Then the tech screwed it up, didnt install a cooler, installed the wrong filter, and used Mercon 3. Who would you go after, the President of Ford Motor Company? Did the service manager tell the tech to cheat? How about the owner of the dealership? Maybe he told the service writer to tell the tech to cheat...

...who really KNOWS what happened. All I know is...things will never be the same. Once a business gets a bad rep. in a certain community, it is almost impossible to repair.

You all have to believe what you want to believe. No matter what happens from here, we can only hold ourselves responsible for the outcome.
 
RE: Anything You Might Say

Lots of interesting points, but you fail to address the legal concepts of "privity of contract," and "implied warranty."

When an item is purchased from a retail vendor, "privity of contract" exists only between the buyer and the retail vendor and does not extend to the manufacturer or distributor.

When an item is purchased from a retailer, an "implied warranty of merchantability" exists. That means that the item is fit for the ordinary purposes of THEIR USE. There is also the common law concept of "Warranty of Fitness For a Particular Use." This means that the seller is aware of the particular use of the item, and by selling it, he implicitly warranties that the item is fit for the its purpose.

So if I buy a sway bar from a retail vendor that is advertised and expected to be used on my car under certain driving conditions, and that bar breaks under those conditions, in most states I cannot look to the manufacturer for re-imbursement because I have no contract with that manufacturer, my contract is with the retail vendor. The deal was struck with him, he took my money, and his name is on the invoice (contract) for that item.

Now the seller has privity of contract with the manufacturer or distributor and he can seek recourse from them, but I cannot. I am legally barred from action against someone with whom I have not dealt directly. The manufacturer has not agreed to provide me with anything... I have no contract with him.

It is absurd to think that if I go to Home Depot and buy a John Deere tractor, and that tractor breaks, I should consider taking the tractor back directly to John Deere and expect a refund. They don't have my money, Home Depot does, and that is where I have to go to get it back.

If a vendor sells an item, no matter who's name is on it, under the doctrine of "implied warranty," the vendor is responsible.. especially if they advertise it as being up to certain specification... they cannot pass the buck to the manufacturer.. It is especially true if the name of the manufacturer is nowhere on the item, nor does the seller disclose that information, and actually puts his own name on the item. It us up to the vendor to verify what they sell and take the heat if it turns out to be bogus..

-mike




1996 Thunderbird LX
Renegage Heads / CompCamns / OEM Cork NPI intake
245rwhp
13.71

Presently Morphing in Atlanta
 
RE: Anything You Might Say

The LOD is not being sued. No threat to sue has been made. There is a battle being waged against a person all over the internet. When certain individuals found out that this person was associated with this site, they quickly came here. Over night new members started popping up and are attempting to bring the war to our board. This war is not welcome here. Attempts to bring a war to our board will be met with deleted posts and accounts. Everybody is welcome here so long as they come in peace. Our board has worked too hard to become a family again.

Adam
Head moderator

If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests?
 
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