GM Sales Collapse in October: Market share plummets to 20.5%

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General Motors in crisis as its car sales plummet

By : Tracey Boles Chief Reporter October 30, 2005

GENERAL Motors will this week reveal that sales collapsed in October, taking its US market share to a 25-year low and fuelling fresh fears that the world’s largest carmaker is heading towards bankruptcy. Its US sales dropped 26% compared with the same month last year, according to early estimates, putting its monthly US market share at 20.5% – the lowest since at least 1980.

The figures were compiled by Deutsche Bank analyst Rod Lache. Goldman Sachs also believes October will be the worst month for US car and truck sales in years. GM – whose brands include Cadillac, Pontiac and Hummer – is confronting its biggest financial crisis for 13 years. A bankruptcy filing by the Detroit carmaker would spell the end of an era for US industry and change global car manufacturing for ever.

Last week, it emerged that Toyota is poised to unseat GM as the world’s biggest carmaker measured by units produced. The Japanese giant, which already dwarfs the US carmaker in profitability and value, intends to ramp up production next year.

The GM sales slump – blamed on high fuel prices, unease about the US economy and the end of special summer offers for its staff -– is the latest in a stream of bad news to hit GM, all sparking market fears that the carmaker could go bankrupt. General Motors has denied it is drawing up any plans to declare Chapter 11 bankruptcy. Last week, America’s Securities and Exchange Commission (SEC) intensified an inquiry into how GM accounts for its pensions and employee benefits.

So far this year, GM has posted record losses of $3.8bn (£2.1bn, E3.2bn) and its crucial credit ratings have been reduced to junk by the main rating agencies. The company is burdened by $90bn in pension obligations and a $77bn healthcare plan. Two weeks ago, it was forced to renegotiate the terms of its healthcare plan with the United Autoworkers Union. It managed to agree a deal that will cut $3bn a year from costs.

On Friday, General Motors recalled 106,000 sports utility vehicles (SUVs) to fix a door latch. Sales of the SUVs have been falling faster than those of other vehicles as fuel prices remain high.

The spectre of bankruptcy at GM loomed again last week as the markets digested the news that the SEC had issued subpoenas related to GM’s financial reporting for pension and other post-employment benefits, and to transactions and obligations between the company and auto-parts supplier Delphi, which itself entered Chapter 11 earlier this month.

Until now, the SEC inquiry, which is also looking at other companies including rival carmaker Ford, has been informal. GM is Delphi’s former parent and its biggest customer. The carmaker may be responsible for $12bn in benefits at Delphi because of guarantees it offered when it spun off its former parts arm in 1999.

Analysts have warned that Delphi’s Chapter 11 filing under the weight of high wage, healthcare and pension costs, may foreshadow a similar drastic move by the world’s largest auto maker, whose labour woes could be compounded by the crisis at its supplier.

Bank of America analyst Ron Tadross said earlier this month: “It is our view that bankruptcy protection for GM is increasingly looking like a reasonable way to properly address the company’s retirement liabilities and job security benefits.” Steve Miller, chairman and chief executive of Delphi, said last week that unless Delphi’s bankruptcy process goes smoothly, it could “fatally wound” GM.

GM’s North American operations have been in crisis for some time, with commentators accusing it of spotting consumer trends too late. It has lagged Toyota in developing fashionable petrol-electric hybrids and launched the retro Chevrolet HHR after sales for retro vehicles peaked at other carmakers.

Last week the Detroit car company revealed plans to launch several crossover models – vehicles that have the interior space of SUVs but are built on the car rather than truck chassis. But the new models in the Buick, GMC and Saturn brands will have to compete with the crossover models that Toyota, Ford and DaimlerChrysler already have on the market.

In another desperate bid to get the ailing carmaker back on track, chief executive Richard Wagoner is seeking a buyer for all or part of the General Motors Acceptance Corporation, its finance arm. But there are fears the SEC investigation will hinder the sale. GM is hurting the most among the US carmakers but Ford and the Chrysler arm of DaimlerChrysler all experienced dismal sales performance last month.


http://www.thebusinessonline.com/St...2E-D07EB5AA1CEE
 
RE: GM Sales Collapse in October: Market share plummets to 20.5%

Gulp! :eek: Very sad news for American automakers.
 
RE: GM Sales Collapse in October: Market share plummets to 20.5%

I am not surprised by this. GM has been selling inferior products for at least the last 5 years. GM doesn't have a single car to compete with the Camry/Accord. The new Impala looks bad, and platform and shares a single platform with every single other 4 door sedan about the same size produced by GM. The engines offered are a gas guzzling V8 small block coupled to FWD??? or a lame 3.8L V6 that only produces around 200hp. The camaro is gone. Their trucks are 3 years behind the competition. No hydroformed steel in the frames, engines are weak etc. GM also has pathetic mid size SUVs, nothing to compete with 4 Runner/Explorer.
GM just sold Subaru??? WHyyyy?
And GM ran SAAB into the ground.
 
RE: GM Sales Collapse in October: Market share plummets to 20.5%

Max, the Vette has had hydroformed frames and AL in the new Z06.

The problem with GM is they need to fire all the people responsible for their interiors. They just plan suck, even in the Cadillacs. I sat in the 2005 XLR and was like WTF, this is no 80k interior. The GTO interior was nice for its class, but the exterior styling sucked.

My co-worker was in the market to get a car last month. She is married with one kid and wanted something sporty. I recommended that she look at the Pontiac G6 since it is a chick car. She liked the exterior styling, the response of the engine and road feel, but was not too thrilled about the interior. Then she wanted to go look at Acura’s, the RSX, did not like that then TL even though it was more money. I said once you sit in the TL's interior that is what you will get even though it has 4 doors and is plain looking. Well, even her 9 year old daughter after wanting to get the G6 exclaimed “mommy this is nice!” when she sat inside the TL. And that is what she got.
 
RE: GM Sales Collapse in October: Market share plummets to 20.5%

I really think that American car companies as a whole are going down the drain, and will never come back. Id also be willing to bet that sometime in the next 50-100 years that all American car companies will ban together to fight against Japanese and European car companies. It could end up being like a mini world war for the car companies! "The Great War of the Automotive World" or something like that....:9
 
RE: GM Sales Collapse in October: Market share plummets to 20.5%

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
Max, the Vette has had hydroformed frames and AL in the new Z06.The problem with GM is they need to fire all the people responsible for their interiors. They just plan suck, even in the Cadillacs. I sat in the 2005 XLR and was like WTF, this is no 80k interior. The GTO interior was nice for its class, but the exterior styling sucked.My co-worker was in the market to get a car last month. She is married with one kid and wanted something sporty. I recommended that she look at the Pontiac G6 since it is a chick car. She liked the exterior styling, the response of the engine and road feel, but was not too thrilled about the interior. Then she wanted to go look at Acura’s, the RSX, did not like that then TL even though it was more money. I said once you sit in the TL's interior that is what you will get even though it has 4 doors and is plain looking. Well, even her 9 year old daughter after wanting to get the G6 exclaimed “mommy this is nice!” when she sat inside the TL. And that is what she got.
[/div]

TL has a very impressive Interior, both fit and finish. Its like a mini 7 series.
 
RE: GM Sales Collapse in October: Market share plummets to 20.5%

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
Max, the Vette has had hydroformed frames and AL in the new Z06.The problem with GM is they need to fire all the people responsible for their interiors. [/div]

I was talking about their bread and butter vehicles. GM trucks. Dodge was first to use hydroforming, then Ford, GM has yet to follow, it has the weakest frame out of the three, not acceptable for a truck. Toyota is bringing out the new Tundra as an 07 model. Since it is comming out 2-3 years after the competition, it will probably be better than anything Gm or Ford or dodge have to offer right now. Toyota at this point is almost unstoppable, and I don't see them loosing ground to any domestics unless they bring out some killer cars (ya right, fusion is the closest thing, nothing like that from GM) or the government steps in. Toyota builds new cars cheaper than ford and gm and sells them for more.

Another great thing to consider is a new ford explorer looses 10k in its first year, where as a 4 runner looses 3.5k, i see no economical reason to buy a new american car, with a few exceptions.

Btw I was wrong about the impala, it actually offers a choice of 3 different engine 211hp 249hp and 303 hp. But it still doesn't change the fact that resale is probably going to tank and the car looks terrible.
 
RE: GM Sales Collapse in October: Market share plummets to 20.5%

I think the new Impala isn't a bad looking car at all...

I agree that some people seem to think Toyotas and Hondas are such great cars, but you want to talk about boring cars... I don't know I single person who owns one and isn't boring themselves... I’ve also known more then one newer Camry with some problems, the worst being ironically the new Camry my old mechanic bought for his wife that needed 3 transmissions within the first 20K miles.


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RE: GM Sales Collapse in October: Market share plummets to 20.5%

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
I think the new Impala isn't a bad looking car at all... I agree that some people seem to think Toyotas and Hondas are such great cars, but you want to talk about boring cars... I don't know I single person who owns one and isn't boring themselves... I’ve also known more then one newer Camry with some problems, the worst being ironically the new Camry my old mechanic bought for his wife that needed 3 transmissions within the first 20K miles.http://www.lincolnsclub.org/forum/images/loveit.gif -JLOD - New England Member--> www.ivotedblue.com www.airamericaradio.com--> www.bradleyreport.net www.npr.org
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The impala looks like an oversized cavalier. Too rental looking for everyday use.

Are you also suggesting that all the cool people somehow buy Domestic? Regardless of how "FUN" Honda’s and Toyota’s are, they out last many domestics on paper, and surveys. I seriously hope your not implying that what ford and GM has to offer are actually "FUN"... if so, please name a few that are comparable with Honda, and Toyota, save for the fusion (not that its fun, but I haven’t taken a closer look yet.)

We come to you with JP power surveys, and sales records, and market trends, and you say they are “boring”? Numbers speak for themselves.

If you are talking about Camry class type cars… They aren’t supposed to be the coolest cars out there, and their target customers don’t seem to care about the cool factor.

If you still like to hide behind a Curtin, and not admit Domestic auto makers have a problem, then you’re only fooling yourself.
 
RE: GM Sales Collapse in October: Market share plummets to 20.5%

We’re clearly not going to agree in the looks of the Impala, I think it’s nicer looking with it’s freshening then the last generation was.

Am I suggesting that “cool” people buy domestic vehicles? I don’t think so, since I didn’t say that. I think that regardless of foreign vs domestic, every person that I know well, people who are friends of mine, who own either one of those two types of vehicles, are people who lead generally boring lives. Thank goodness they know me! They buy cars not because they like cars, or know anything about cars, or want cars with whatever… they buy cars to go from point A to B with the thought that they won’t ever have to do anything but put gas in them.

I probably made the mistake of only putting half of a thought into my last post. The conversation never really revolved around what cars are “fun or cool”, the conversation was more in reference to what qualities a vehicle has, in both actual build quality and ascetic quality.

“We come to you…” I’m curious if you are now plural Moe? If, not I’d hope at least pluralistic. Sure Toyotas may be better on paper, but that doesn’t negate the fact that I think they are bland (and have ridiculously tall back ends). I would rather drive a car that will theoretically have more problems over the long run, but is engaging. So I do, I drive my MK8. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you drive a Lexus now? There hasn’t been a Lexus made yet that I would willingly give up my MK for.

I openly admit that Domestic cars as well as makers have problems, but that’s not going to stop me from buying them. I’m not trying to fool anyone, lest myself, I’m merely giving my opinions. I think the new Caddy interiors leave much to be desired, but I would drive one without a second thought. I’ve been in late model Acura RLs (which handled amazingly well) and TLs (the TL was on it’s 2nd tranny) and I thought they had comfy seats, but the rest of the car was just cheap looking. I’ve been in a brand new LS430, and was impressed by all the buttons, the leather smelled nice as well, but again… after 3 minutes, the car was eh… Must be my automotive ADD, but they don’t hold my attention.

It’s also worth saying that numbers can be interpreted numerous ways.


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LOD - New England Member

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RE: GM Sales Collapse in October: Market share plummets to 20.5%

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
We’re clearly not going to agree in the looks of the Impala, I think it’s nicer looking with it’s freshening then the last generation was.Am I suggesting that “cool” people buy domestic vehicles? I don’t think so, since I didn’t say that. I think that regardless of foreign vs domestic, every person that I know well, people who are friends of mine, who own either one of those two types of vehicles, are people who lead generally boring lives. Thank goodness they know me! They buy cars not because they like cars, or know anything about cars, or want cars with whatever… they buy cars to go from point A to B with the thought that they won’t ever have to do anything but put gas in them. I probably made the mistake of only putting half of a thought into my last post. The conversation never really revolved around what cars are “fun or cool”, the conversation was more in reference to what qualities a vehicle has, in both actual build quality and ascetic quality. “We come to you…” I’m curious if you are now plural Moe? If, not I’d hope at least pluralistic. Sure Toyotas may be better on paper, but that doesn’t negate the fact that I think they are bland (and have ridiculously tall back ends). I would rather drive a car that will theoretically have more problems over the long run, but is engaging. So I do, I drive my MK8. Correct me if I’m wrong, but you drive a Lexus now? There hasn’t been a Lexus made yet that I would willingly give up my MK for.I openly admit that Domestic cars as well as makers have problems, but that’s not going to stop me from buying them. I’m not trying to fool anyone, lest myself, I’m merely giving my opinions. I think the new Caddy interiors leave much to be desired, but I would drive one without a second thought. I’ve been in late model Acura RLs (which handled amazingly well) and TLs (the TL was on it’s 2nd tranny) and I thought they had comfy seats, but the rest of the car was just cheap looking. I’ve been in a brand new LS430, and was impressed by all the buttons, the leather smelled nice as well, but again… after 3 minutes, the car was eh… Must be my automotive ADD, but they don’t hold my attention. It’s also worth saying that numbers can be interpreted numerous ways. http://www.lincolnsclub.org/forum/images/loveit.gif -JLOD - New England Member--> www.ivotedblue.com www.airamericaradio.com--> www.bradleyreport.net www.npr.org
[/div]

Well, my response was toward the famous notion that Domestics are better, and imports are garbage on every matter, regardless.

I'm just tired just tired of hearing die hard GM/Ford fans routing for their favorite brand based on loyalty, rather then logic, and what’s really out there. So by far, this wasn’t directed at you personally.

Now I’m not going to venture off and talk about cars that I hear about, but cars I’ve ridden in, and drove, and got to know well. Not sure if you know, but I had my Mark VIII for some time, it was a good car, loved the style, and interior and exterior of the second gens, especially when slammed. However, from one Ford product to another, (we have bought SO MANY fords over the last 15 years in my immediate family… about 5vics, 3grand monkey’s and 4 town cars… I might have missed one or two) and the cars get cheaper, and cheaper. I'm not sure how ford does it, but they have these genius people that can find ways to make stuff look cheaper, and feel like zero grade plastic. Look through the years of the panther platform (crownvic, Marquis, town car) and you will notice an obvious degradation in quality. Wish they put more effort into making these cars better.

Now that we’ve discussed quality, let’s talk about how often these cars are updated, lets see… the vics interior hasn’t been completely updated since 92, there was some changes in the 95 models, but not much. Same goes for the Grand Marquis. Compare that with how often Toyota, and Honda updates their cars. I believe Toyota updates the chassis every 3-5 years or so. Ford? Anywhere between 10-15years. GM’s average? 12+. Don’t quote me on that, because it was in one of the cases we did a few years ago, but you get the point.

Sex Appeal? While I will admit the best selling Toyota’s are not very engaging models, like the Camry, and Echo, or matrix, however, many that made the switch to the dark side after being burned several times by ford, which brings me to my next point.

Customer service… I don’t think I need to talk much there, because we ALL been screwed by ford at one point or another, unless your uncle owns the dealership.


Now, you want to talk about numbers? Okay:

Better resale value, higher quality, more reliable and higher volume sales, what more numbers do want?

Not to mention domestics answer to declining sales… so what do they do? Introduce employee pricing, bye bye resale value, and a clever new way to screw over existed customers. Don’t you notice how Honda never sells to fleets, or rental companies, even if it meant to increase profits? EVEN jaguar sells to Enterprise.

I cant even put words together anymore, its been a lond day, and i think its right about bed time.
 
RE: GM Sales Collapse in October: Market share plummets to 20.5%

Of course i own a Mark VIII. But im just wondering what you guys see in todays american cars. to be honest, NOTHING interests me. a few BMWs and Mercedes have my attention. and maybe one or two lexus. and the lincoln towncar is nice in my opinion (probably only cuz my dad has one). and the new mustang is pretty cool. but other than that!!!! IMO american cars right now are garbage! Id buy a super nice pristine low mileage mark viii or a old 80s buick grand national if i had the money...:)
 
RE: GM Sales Collapse in October: Market share plummets to 20.5%

Here is my take on American cars.

Ford:
Ford 500- Nice big family cruiser much cheaper than avalon although slower and less luxurious.
Ford Fusion- Very nice competitor to the Camry/Accord looks good, priced aggressively, from what I hear handles nicely as well. Resale is probably going to suck, but it should be fairly reliable.
Ford Freestyle-Odd rather large crossover which is basically a ford 500, so once again it does it's job.
Mustang- Very nice. Enough said.

GM Cars:
Pontiac Soltice- Very nice little coupe, killer looks, but awfully small, and production needs to keep up with demand.
Corvette- Same as mustang, very nice. Enough said.

Chrysler:
300C, 300 srt 8 awsome looking cars from the front, rather heavy though, and hideous from the back. SRT8 is fast but expensive.
Dodge Charger- 300 clone but uglier (except for the SRT-8), yet it is cheaper so i guess it does it's job.
Neon SRT4- Biggest bang for the buck ever, very nice car for the money. It is getting discontinued and replaced with a cross-over WTF?!
Chrysler PT cruiser- Neat little Crossover that has been around for a few years does it's job well.

Lincoln:
Towncar- big relatively cheap, reliable and proven. Yet very outdated chassis, and suspension, it needs to have at least that new 3 valve V8.
Zephyr- Fusion clone, reasonably priced at 29,995 even with options still in a good price range, looks ok, yet it will never compete with a 3 Series or the new IS (Athough the new IS is very ugly). Good competitor to the ES330 and perhaps the CTS.

I think that is IT for American cars, cadillac, buick and others are not even worth mentioning, they build inferior cars to competitors and I have no idea why people buy them. Brand loyalty or big discounts I guess.
 
RE: GM Sales Collapse in October: Market share plummets to 20.5%

So it dawned on me that we look at this from two entirely different perspectives Moe, because I will most likely never own a new car. Short of winning a major lottery or some other amazing thing happening to me, I can’t rationalize the cost of a new car no matter what type of car it is. For me a new car is something that is 2-3 years old. Because most often at that point I can buy what ever said car for half it’s original price. Since I don’t like the majority of forign cars anyway, what do I care if they have higher resale value? That’s not helping me to buy them, and by the time I’m done with a car anyway, it’s got so many miles on it, it’s not worth much.

A great example of a car that I would have bought if I had been in the market for it at the time was a 03 Navigator Ultra, this thing was super loaded, power rear gate, power step things, HIDs, DVD navigation, heated/ cooled seats, probably a truck that stickered new somewhere in the $65K neighborhood. Now at 25K miles, this truck sold for $23,500. If I’ve got 10-15K to spend, I want a 40-50K dollar car. If I had 40-50K to spend I’d want an 80K dollar car.

Now as far as customer service goes, it all depends on the dealership, and there are plenty of bad ones out there. I’ve been lucky that Cape Cod Lincoln Mercury is awesome. I’ve been burned by Concord Lincoln Mercury in NH, so when I was living up there, I never went back. I used to have work done at the Buick dealer directly across the street from the Lincoln dealer.

Anyway, as for newer American cars that I think are sharp, I think the Buick Lacross isn’t a bad looking little car, the inside is pretty nice. I think the new Buick Lucerne (formerly Park Ave?) from the pics I’ve seen is a sharp looking ride. Pontiac’s little sports car is not to bad looking, I’ve seen a few running around here, and I think the Saturn version from the pics looks pretty mean. I would take any Caddy you give me, the new DTS is very hansom, beware its crazy bright back up lights if you’re behind one. I think the 500 isn’t a bad looking car either, the more of them I see, the more I like em’, the 300C has the best nose and worst ass end of any car out there.

Oh, I was just thinking, having now ridden in a brand new CTS-V… wow… Mercedes and BMW better really bring something special to the table with the next generations of their cars, cause that Caddy is amazing.



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