Dyno runs with my 96

L

logres

Registered
Lonnie said I had bragging rights, so here I am. I've attached the dyno chart.

239 rwhp 250 rwtq on mostly stock motor and Lonnie's stage 3 tranny and prototype converter

Relevant mods:

AFPR set 5 psi above stock
Shaved intake tube
Removed silencer
Copper 2 steps colder plugs
Screamin Demon coil packs
Walbro 255 lph fuel pump
K&N air filter
Nology wires

"Other" mods:

Fuel line magnet
Fitch fuel catalyst

I won't pitch anything; I'll let you folks be the judge on where the power came from. If you want my opinion, send me a PM.
 
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driller said:
I'm most suprised by the torque. :wink2-green

What of the A/F ratio?
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Well...me in my infinite wisdom told the dyno guys not to take it because I thought my Xcal was taking it. Found out it doesn't after the fact...not unless you get some other equipment installed. Nobody's fault but my own. I assume the A/F ratio can't be too bad because I had a smog check done (in CA) about six months ago and the results were stellar...only NO, CO2 and water coming out the exhaust. Of course the smog guy doesn't redline it either, so who knows what it is when the IMRCs open up.
 
The biggest reason I ask is the AFPR setting above stock.

Now without getting into a huge debate on excess fuel pressure being tuned back out by the PCM, I have on several occasions fine tuned the AFPR at the track, particularly after the addition of any mods. I generally crank it up 1-2 psi until I do not see any 1/4 mile trap speed increase, then back it off a notch. After the intake swap last summer, the first track event found me 6 psi above where I started from.
 
driller said:
The biggest reason I ask is the AFPR setting above stock.

Now without getting into a huge debate on excess fuel pressure being tuned back out by the PCM, I have on several occasions fine tuned the AFPR at the track, particularly after the addition of any mods. I generally crank it up 1-2 psi until I do not see any 1/4 mile trap speed increase, then back it off a notch. After the intake swap last summer, the first track event found me 6 psi above where I started from.
Click to expand...

I admit, it's rough and dirty, but after all of the extensive research I did on cranking up psi, I figured I would try it. All indications, as weak as they are (smog checks, dyno runs, burnouts, etc.), say it has benefited. I was contemplating a full-on dyno tune to nail down fuel pressure, but decided against it because I'm putting in a turbo before the year is out.
 
driller said:
The biggest reason I ask is the AFPR setting above stock.

Now without getting into a huge debate on excess fuel pressure being tuned back out by the PCM......

John, your right about that! When I posted on the MarkVIII board that I had
bought a Kirban AFPR based on your recommendation, I got a bit of abuse.
I was wondering if someone was just waiting to jump me about that very thing. I recall when Geno (OnebadMark) was advocating putting a 2x4 under the stock FPR, a socket on top and smacking it with a hammer to increase the pressure.
Btw, have you had leakage problems with the Kirban units?
Thanks,

Mel C.
93 garnet/grey
Garage Queen
Click to expand...
 
logres said:
I assume the A/F ratio can't be too bad because I had a smog check done (in CA) about six months ago and the results were stellar...only NO, CO2 and water coming out the exhaust. Of course the smog guy doesn't redline it either, so who knows what it is when the IMRCs open up.
Click to expand...

I don't know, we have the emissions tests here and my results are stellar also, but my A/F ratio showed my car running extremely rich.

That was prior to my chip, I haven't had it dyno'd in a long time.
 
Mel, I'll share my logic. While the adaptive strategy of the PCM is often a wonderful thing, there are not only limitations but compromises.

As we all know, the amount of fuel delivery at any given demand is a function of the pulse width of the injector and the fuel pressure. But like a showerhead, the spray pattern of the injector can vary greatly with pressure, even more so with higher mileage injectors. The same fuel volume can be delivered at lower pressure with a wider pulse width as one with a higher pressure at a narrower pulse width. Somewhere between those extremes will be a fuel delivery spray pattern that is best for a complete burn for maximum power. Too low a pressure or to high a pressure will likewise yield less power. The trick is to find that 'sweet spot'. It may not mean much in terms of daily driving, but when you're trying to maximize performance, that little bit of difference at WOT can be quite definitive at the track.

'Course, that's just my opinion. :wink:

The only time I had a AFPR leak was when it was missing the lower o-ring on the mounting face.
 
John, your showerhead/pressure/spray pattern example sounds like an
excellent theory. Definitely a little too much pressure is better than a little
low. I bought a guage 6 mos. ago, but was missing the 1/16 to 1/8 adapter,
so I've never checked my stock regulator. I ordered the adapter with the
Kirban unit, but the UPS tracking says it's delayed by weather between
PA and IL. :-(

Mel C
93 garnet/grey
Garage Queen
 
Nice dyno numbers, what I would really like to see are 1/4 mile numbers though. Also, do you have a conical or panel K&N filter?
 
46callaway said:
Nice dyno numbers, what I would really like to see are 1/4 mile numbers though. Also, do you have a conical or panel K&N filter?
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Panel filter.

Track times will be irrelevant (slow) because I am still running stock 3.07 gearing - and have no intention of switching up. If I had some times, I would post them, but I've never been to the drag strip. Any guess at a 1/4 mile time would be a wild one because I don't think anyone else is setup the way I am...3.07 gears, Eaton posi, 2800 stall Lonnie converter, and Lonnie stage 3 tranny. Plus all of the supporting mods (poly everything, sway bars, etc.)

I know some people are thinking I'm a weirdo for staying with 3.07 gears and going turbo, but I want to have my cake and eat it too. In other words, cruise at 2000 rpms and still be able to smoke Corvettes. I'm funny that way.
 
46callaway said:
How are you liking the Lonnie stage 3 tranny?
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I can't tell any difference between it and the garbage trannies I've had in the past. But in all honesty, one buys a tranny for its longevity anyway. I'll consider marrying it if it goes 50K+ miles without an issue. And being that it costs about (within 15%) the same as the "other" trannies out there, it would be unwise to go with anyone that DOESN'T have a spotless reputation like Lonnie.

As I've told JP though, the immediately noticable item is the prototype converter. It is made better than the PI unit and is comparably priced. Contact Lonnie for more info on it.
 
Believe me, there is a vast difference between those faux performance or so called bullet proof trans that are being sold on the internet. You may not notice much of a difference right now with the stock engine but wait until you start throwing the serious power to it. Just had a Mustang Bullitt run 10.01 last weekend with the same package you have Wayne. And this was with the all time expert of these 4R70Ws Jerry W data logging every single parameter of the trans. He said this was the first fully automatic 4R70W that he has ever seen run that fast and that he wouldn't change a thing in it. Now that if anyone has ever met JW is probably the highest compliment ever. You see, no one else is able to build a trans capable of holding up to that power let alone getting it to operate correctly. Those that do have something like this trans end up going with a manual valve body to get it to work and then still have problems including loosing some drivability.

The acceleration rate was just amazing for a daily driver. In first gear this car was accelerating at about 35 MPH per second. This is about 3200 RPM per second. It takes a very good trans and some tuning to get those results. You won't see that from those faux and so call bullet proof trans other are pushing off.

As for you dyno numbers, what makes them impressive is that you have more drive train loss with my trans than you do with a stock trans. This is due to the increased clutches and materials used in it. We don't use those Alto reds like everyone else is doing to get more frictions in the stack heights. Those frictions are too thin to hold up to any real power and the abrasives on them are impregnated paper glued on. When they get hot the paper burns and peals away. Where as we use improved frictions from the same company that produces the factory pieces and then actually machine the internals to take more frictions.
 
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Sorry Lonnie, I didn't mean to take anything away from your tranny. I want to clarify that your tranny is indeed better, however with my stock engine I could not tell a performance difference between yours and the flimsy trannies I've had in the past. Obviously it will hold better in high power applications, but my main interest is in its ability to run flawlessly for an extended period of time in any application. Not many Mark VIII owners are boosted, so I would sell them on the fact that unlike Art Carr and American Transmission, it is indeed the last tranny you will ever buy no matter what power you are making. And the over-the-top customer service isn't bad either... ;)
 
I think you guys are just making excuses ahead of time for when i get my new dynotune next month. :p
 
logres said:
Sorry Lonnie, I didn't mean to take anything away from your tranny. I want to clarify that your tranny is indeed better, however with my stock engine I could not tell a performance difference between yours and the flimsy trannies I've had in the past. Obviously it will hold better in high power applications, but my main interest is in its ability to run flawlessly for an extended period of time in any application. Not many Mark VIII owners are boosted, so I would sell them on the fact that unlike Art Carr and American Transmission, it is indeed the last tranny you will ever buy no matter what power you are making. And the over-the-top customer service isn't bad either... ;)
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No, I knew what you meant, I just wanted to make it a little clearer.

John, It will be interesting to see what your results are with just the TC swap.
 
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