$837.93 and it still idles very, very badly
- Thread starter fernleybjk
- Start date
This coming from someone with wholesale access and free donor cars everywhere.
I was just saying...lets not try to completely backseat quarterback this guy with limited information.
Budd...glad to see you came back...I'm all for handing the BS first so no worries man!
fernleybjk
Registered
The f----ing nightmare continues
The f----ing nightmare continues
I picked the car up Friday morning. They told me that one of their techs had driven it home, about 30 miles, road tested it around the area where the shop is numerous times, and just let it idle for about an hour with absolutely no problem. I was elated because I was going to drive the car I love to California and pick up my wife.
I got the keys, stepped into the car and turned on the ignition. It started up a little rough but I thought that it might just be a momentary fluke. I drove it down the street and it got rougher and the check engine light began flashing. I began to sense this rage erupting and told myself to calm down, that anger wasn't going to solve this problem. Now here is where the horror begins.
I really believe that what they told me about the testing they performed was true. They were pretty upset when I drove it back and apologetic to the point that I knew they weren't lying.
The guy told me that he had 2 techs on my car. He stated that his most knowledgeable guy had worked on it and couldn't believe what was happening. The tech removed the valve cover - the cover that is over the coil packs and plugs - and my immediate gut reaction was disgust and rage. They had stripped away the entire coil pack harness so that only the bare wires showed leading to the coil packs. Two of the wires were electrically taped. I am going back into town today and take a picture so that I can post it. It is so unprofessional looking that you have to see it to believe it.
I asked them why, why, why they hadn't replaced the coil pack harness. They told me that a replacement wasn't available; they could only find a used one and who would want to replace it with a potential problem. I couldn't believe their logic after what I saw they had done.
The tech told me that he had separated the wires because if one were overheating it wouldn't cause damage to another one. I was furious and told them that just stop and I would find a replacement harness. If anyone knows where I can get one, please let me know right away so that I can get my car back.
thank you for all of your assistance and yes, I am definitely going to print out and show them all of the comments on this site regarding my problem.
Budd
The f----ing nightmare continues
I picked the car up Friday morning. They told me that one of their techs had driven it home, about 30 miles, road tested it around the area where the shop is numerous times, and just let it idle for about an hour with absolutely no problem. I was elated because I was going to drive the car I love to California and pick up my wife.
I got the keys, stepped into the car and turned on the ignition. It started up a little rough but I thought that it might just be a momentary fluke. I drove it down the street and it got rougher and the check engine light began flashing. I began to sense this rage erupting and told myself to calm down, that anger wasn't going to solve this problem. Now here is where the horror begins.
I really believe that what they told me about the testing they performed was true. They were pretty upset when I drove it back and apologetic to the point that I knew they weren't lying.
The guy told me that he had 2 techs on my car. He stated that his most knowledgeable guy had worked on it and couldn't believe what was happening. The tech removed the valve cover - the cover that is over the coil packs and plugs - and my immediate gut reaction was disgust and rage. They had stripped away the entire coil pack harness so that only the bare wires showed leading to the coil packs. Two of the wires were electrically taped. I am going back into town today and take a picture so that I can post it. It is so unprofessional looking that you have to see it to believe it.
I asked them why, why, why they hadn't replaced the coil pack harness. They told me that a replacement wasn't available; they could only find a used one and who would want to replace it with a potential problem. I couldn't believe their logic after what I saw they had done.
The tech told me that he had separated the wires because if one were overheating it wouldn't cause damage to another one. I was furious and told them that just stop and I would find a replacement harness. If anyone knows where I can get one, please let me know right away so that I can get my car back.
thank you for all of your assistance and yes, I am definitely going to print out and show them all of the comments on this site regarding my problem.
Budd
Is this a FORD/LINCOLN garage????? I would calmly ask for my money back, and if that fails, contact the States Attorney Generals office and see what they can do for you...you was ROBBED! Also contact your Better Business Bureau and file a complaint - IF you do not get satisfaction. Did you pay by credit card? Contact the CC company and file a complaint there too and see if THEY can void the charge.
Bare wires and electrical tape? Sound like a driller worked on it.
Seriously, I don't know if a replacement harness for the COPs is available, but if not, I know any reputable shop will have wire, soldering tools, heat-shrink tubing and even pin terminals for such wiring repairs.
We have peeps here that have converted from the spark plug wires to COP ignition, so I know it can be made to work!
Seriously, I don't know if a replacement harness for the COPs is available, but if not, I know any reputable shop will have wire, soldering tools, heat-shrink tubing and even pin terminals for such wiring repairs.
We have peeps here that have converted from the spark plug wires to COP ignition, so I know it can be made to work!
jamies98lsc
Registered
i have a few harness's the reason you cant get the harness you need is because it is part of the entire engine harness which consists of much more than 8 coil packs. you can cut the coil plug harness off the main engine harness and splice it to your motor but no matter what you are gonna have a splice somewhere and solder and tape/shrink tubing so.....
jamies98lsc
Registered
almost brings a tear to your eye hah Jeremi? ALMOST!!!
The attorney general and better business bureau are good suggestions, but here in Cali and in Nevada (guessing thats where you live), you should contact the BAR (Bureau of Automotive Repair) and tell them whats going on.
On a side note, being a mechanic for 13 years, I'm not going to completely jump to conclusions.
I think what he is saying here is that they removed the wire loom and factory electical tape exposing the original melted down wiring. Then they replaced the burnt wiring with new stuff and did not replace the wire looming to prevent the overheating of the wires again. To the "average Joe" (no offense Budd), the heat shrink tubing (as indicated in the invoice) can appear to look like black electrical tape.
Not saying you need to let them continue to fix your car, but I would recommend you do NOT pay them anymore money until they can make it right. Once they make it right, get a second opinion to double check their work.
On a side note, being a mechanic for 13 years, I'm not going to completely jump to conclusions.
I think what he is saying here is that they removed the wire loom and factory electical tape exposing the original melted down wiring. Then they replaced the burnt wiring with new stuff and did not replace the wire looming to prevent the overheating of the wires again. To the "average Joe" (no offense Budd), the heat shrink tubing (as indicated in the invoice) can appear to look like black electrical tape.
Not saying you need to let them continue to fix your car, but I would recommend you do NOT pay them anymore money until they can make it right. Once they make it right, get a second opinion to double check their work.
fernleybjk
Registered
What could cause this intermittent problem
What could cause this intermittent problem
I went to the repair shop this morning and talked with Terry, the mechanic working on it.
Last Friday, when I went to pick up the car and it began misfiring again, Terry took the valve cover off to show me what had been done. When he started it up in the shop area, the idle seemed to be ok but I was in a hurry since I had to go to CA to pick up my wife and won't swear to it.
I drove back to Reno this morning to discuss the situation with the tech. I told him that I had found some harnesses on the internet and would order one. I went back home and did some more research on this site and found out that people who had idling problems stated that it could also be the IAR, Cam position sensor, and fuel injector.
I told the tech this and he said he would check out the injector. He called back to tell me that he had started it up and it was running great with no idle or misfire problem. He did state that he tested the injector and that there was no problem but then it's running great at the moment.
I told him about the cam shaft sensor and it's function of syncing the fuel injector and coils on start-up. I asked him could that explain the intermittent idle problem. He told me that when the cam sensor goes bad it usually stays bad.
Anybody have any suggestions as to what could cause this intermittent type of problem?
He seems to think that vibration is causing the problem in the harness.
Humbly,
Budd
What could cause this intermittent problem
I went to the repair shop this morning and talked with Terry, the mechanic working on it.
Last Friday, when I went to pick up the car and it began misfiring again, Terry took the valve cover off to show me what had been done. When he started it up in the shop area, the idle seemed to be ok but I was in a hurry since I had to go to CA to pick up my wife and won't swear to it.
I drove back to Reno this morning to discuss the situation with the tech. I told him that I had found some harnesses on the internet and would order one. I went back home and did some more research on this site and found out that people who had idling problems stated that it could also be the IAR, Cam position sensor, and fuel injector.
I told the tech this and he said he would check out the injector. He called back to tell me that he had started it up and it was running great with no idle or misfire problem. He did state that he tested the injector and that there was no problem but then it's running great at the moment.
I told him about the cam shaft sensor and it's function of syncing the fuel injector and coils on start-up. I asked him could that explain the intermittent idle problem. He told me that when the cam sensor goes bad it usually stays bad.
Anybody have any suggestions as to what could cause this intermittent type of problem?
He seems to think that vibration is causing the problem in the harness.
Humbly,
Budd
The cam sensor can be intermittent but there is no reason to suspect it in a 'running' vehicle, even if it idles badly. two things about the cam sensor... One, it is frequently an intermittent harness connection to the embedded pins in the harness connector. What happens is over time, vibration breaks the wire at the pin connection and then you are subject to intermittent continuity. Second, if and when the sensor itself does fail, the PCM simply guesses the injector timing based on the crank sensor signal. It has a chance to guess correctly! Therefore, the vehicle may not start, then may start, like Russian roulette. That is where the intermittent no start condition comes from when it is truly a cam sensor issue. Another oddity on the cam sensor... The PCM only requires the cam sensor signal to correctly synchronize the injector firing with the intake stroke of the piston. Once the sequence is determined, the PCM does not need the cam signal to enable the car to continue to run since the sequence is synchronized at the start up. Therefore it is entirely possible for the cam sensor to literally be unplugged on a running engine with no ill effects. If the cam sensor is truly faulty, and the PCM guesses correctly upon startup, the car is just fine to start and run.
By the way, the crank sensor is responsible for ignition timing and oddly enough it too suffers from a harness connection issue, but usually it is a corrosion problem causing intermittent continuity simply due to the proximity of the sensor harness to the elements. But unlike the cam sensor, the crank sensor signal is required at all times for the vehicle to operate.
The one "left field" idea that comes to mind is a cracked reluctor wheel which is where the crank sensor gets it's signal from.
Besides vibration, the only other suspect I could think of would be a load sensitive issue. This could or should be easy to determine and usually it is traced back to a fuel delivery issue.
But back on the topic of the amount of the invoice, it at least sounds like they are trying to address the recurring fault on their own dime?
By the way, the crank sensor is responsible for ignition timing and oddly enough it too suffers from a harness connection issue, but usually it is a corrosion problem causing intermittent continuity simply due to the proximity of the sensor harness to the elements. But unlike the cam sensor, the crank sensor signal is required at all times for the vehicle to operate.
The one "left field" idea that comes to mind is a cracked reluctor wheel which is where the crank sensor gets it's signal from.
Besides vibration, the only other suspect I could think of would be a load sensitive issue. This could or should be easy to determine and usually it is traced back to a fuel delivery issue.
But back on the topic of the amount of the invoice, it at least sounds like they are trying to address the recurring fault on their own dime?
fernleybjk
Registered
A special thanks to Jamie and everyone
A special thanks to Jamie and everyone
I want to personally thank Jamie from The New Lincoln Auto Parts in Florida. I was talking with him and he was in the middle of a bad lightning storm. He gave me some good advice which I questioned them about. They told me that they had switched the number 7 coil with the one next to it to insure that the problem did not follow.
I have taken all of the very good advice on what can cause this idling problem from this and past posts on the forums and addressed it to the tech. I really just want to scream, jump up and down, and accuse them of incompetence but that wouldn't get me anywhere.
Yes, they are doing all of this extra work without charging me. I do talk directly with the tech working on it; he seems very sincere and is as frustrated as I am. I tried calling the Ford dealership and repair facility to talk to a tech there but they told me that they don't allow their techs to talk directly with customers.
I just have this feeling that it is not the harness because you should be able to just move the harness with your hand and be able to make the problem appear and disappear. I am going to be talking to the tech this morning again and be sure that they are still working on it. I just wanted to take the time to thank everyone again.
Budd
A special thanks to Jamie and everyone
I want to personally thank Jamie from The New Lincoln Auto Parts in Florida. I was talking with him and he was in the middle of a bad lightning storm. He gave me some good advice which I questioned them about. They told me that they had switched the number 7 coil with the one next to it to insure that the problem did not follow.
I have taken all of the very good advice on what can cause this idling problem from this and past posts on the forums and addressed it to the tech. I really just want to scream, jump up and down, and accuse them of incompetence but that wouldn't get me anywhere.
Yes, they are doing all of this extra work without charging me. I do talk directly with the tech working on it; he seems very sincere and is as frustrated as I am. I tried calling the Ford dealership and repair facility to talk to a tech there but they told me that they don't allow their techs to talk directly with customers.
I just have this feeling that it is not the harness because you should be able to just move the harness with your hand and be able to make the problem appear and disappear. I am going to be talking to the tech this morning again and be sure that they are still working on it. I just wanted to take the time to thank everyone again.
Budd
You have a point there...if the harness IS the issue, you should be able to simulate it by moving and contorting it.
Your symptoms sound like ONE cylinder going bad. If it was more than just one, you'd definitally be able to tell. Although they swapped coils, it could still be that same bad coil and they didn't double check it. This is just speculation because we aren't there working on it.
jamies98lsc
Registered
they told him number 7 was misfiring, so i told him on the phone to have them take number 7 coil pack and switch it with any other one and see if the misfire then moves to the new cylinder, if not, take the spark plug out of number 7 cylinder and replace that plug, if that doesnt fix it, cylinder 7 needs a compression check and if that isnt the problem burn the car and call the insurance company!!