Yes, I've got all four corners provided by Eddie. Don't have much mileage on them yet (20K), but they are working flawlessly.
Bumpy ride - considering conversion - is the time right?
- Thread starter jrm94mark8
- Start date
Yes, I've got all four corners provided by Eddie. Don't have much mileage on them yet (20K), but they are working flawlessly.
Eddie is re-selling Arnott struts?! Aren't those the ones that fail within 24 months?! And if I remember correctly they don't change the "shock" portion out anyways.
If you want to do it right you need to buy struts from a dealer... $370 a pop is the cheapest way to go. If you want to retain the air ride and not bounce up and down on the freeway.
I rode in cars with coils and they ride just fine. In most cases better than air suspensions due to the fact they (air suspensions) are all worn out at this point unless they were recently replaced.
And no they (air suspensions) won't last 200k miles in a "normal" mark VIII that is driven about 20k miles per year.
Most people with Mark VIIIs are on a budget now and It makes more sense for them to spend "less money" and "not worry about other components" failing.
Yes there are other components like the relay, the air lines, the solenoids, compressor, air ride module, etc. Air ride sensors. I have heard of EVERYTHING failing at one point or another, with the exception of the computer. The system isn't as simple as 4 air bags and a compressor.
So saying that air bags are just as reliable is not accurate.
If you want to do it right you need to buy struts from a dealer... $370 a pop is the cheapest way to go. If you want to retain the air ride and not bounce up and down on the freeway.
I rode in cars with coils and they ride just fine. In most cases better than air suspensions due to the fact they (air suspensions) are all worn out at this point unless they were recently replaced.
And no they (air suspensions) won't last 200k miles in a "normal" mark VIII that is driven about 20k miles per year.
Most people with Mark VIIIs are on a budget now and It makes more sense for them to spend "less money" and "not worry about other components" failing.
Yes there are other components like the relay, the air lines, the solenoids, compressor, air ride module, etc. Air ride sensors. I have heard of EVERYTHING failing at one point or another, with the exception of the computer. The system isn't as simple as 4 air bags and a compressor.
So saying that air bags are just as reliable is not accurate.
sleeper
Former LOD President
DRIVERS SIDE NEW FRONT AIR STRUT for a '93-'98 Lincoln Mark VIII(8)
Details
*NEW STRUT...NOT REBUILT* Replace those leaking and/or binding struts by installing our New, NOT REBUILT, aftermarket strut for your 93-98 Lincoln Mark VIII(8). This is a 100% New product. "Flat Rate" shipping is $15 to anywhere in the cont. USA. Strut kit includes o-rings to reseal your solenoids. (This is for the drivers side only)
List Price: $190.00
Price: $169.00
Nope, incorrect. There's the aforementioned arnott... although they are hit and miss at best. Then there's what I posted above, Eddie, and new air struts for $170 a pop
My car(s) with air suspensions have ridden pretty well. My gen 2 definitely rode smoother than my gen 1, but that's a difference in shock valving. Both had factory struts... one failed them at 130k or so and got replaced at stock, one was still going strong at 110k when i sold it.
Nor will normal spring struts. I've seen springs break in thunderbirds, i've had friends break torsion bars, and I've personally broken leaf springs. In all cases... shocks need replacement well before 200k miles. The only difference between a mark 8 and a thunderbird in this respect is that when you pony up the dough to replace the whole strut, you get an air bladder on the mark 8 instead of a spring.
Given the money a lot of people talk about spending on gears, converters, superchargers, intakes, hoods, etc., it doesn't seem to me like $238 saved for the whole suspension is that much, especially since it costs more up front for the coil springs than just replacing failed air suspension parts piecemeal.
Air bags have been very reliable in my experience. No less reliable than the shocks on my navigator, all of which were replaced before 70k miles. I replaced the air shocks on my navigator because of poor damping... not leaking air.
I Emailed arnott about 8 months ago and asked them about their all new struts. And they confirmed that it was just the bladder that was replaced. Unless they started replacing the entire shock/bladder assembly I stand corrected.
Once again I am not arguing the fact that the air suspension is inferior because IMO it is superior. It gives you load leveling, lowered ride on the freeway and the ability to lower a car by simply relocating sensors.
I have personally had sensor failures with the suspension. And I have worked on some Mark VIIIs with broken compressors etc. I don't see how you can argue that the air suspension is more reliable when it clearly isn't. Coils are more reliable end of story. Are they as cool? No. Do they have the same features? No. Would I choose them if money and reliability wouldn't be an issue? No.
Most Marks are pretty old at the moment and I would utilize a regular coil setup on any mark that is worth less than several thousand dollars which applies to most.
Once again I am not arguing the fact that the air suspension is inferior because IMO it is superior. It gives you load leveling, lowered ride on the freeway and the ability to lower a car by simply relocating sensors.
I have personally had sensor failures with the suspension. And I have worked on some Mark VIIIs with broken compressors etc. I don't see how you can argue that the air suspension is more reliable when it clearly isn't. Coils are more reliable end of story. Are they as cool? No. Do they have the same features? No. Would I choose them if money and reliability wouldn't be an issue? No.
Most Marks are pretty old at the moment and I would utilize a regular coil setup on any mark that is worth less than several thousand dollars which applies to most.
Coil Spring Conversion FRONT AND REAR $390
Stock FRONT ONLY Air Struts $350-500 (add $200 for new rear air springs)
Now.....you've just converted to coils and you never have to replace ANY other part of the "suspension" until the struts go again(your broken spring theory is 1 in a million, so its not valid)
Here is a list of ALL the parts related to the factory air suspension.....how much are you really saving in the long run? If the compressor fails next month because its been working soo hard to pump up bad bladders, or a failed level sensor, or a stuck open solenoid...its another 300 bucks(or whatever they are)....
Air Dryer
Air Line
Air Line Grommets
Air Spring/Front Left
Air Spring/Front Right
Air Spring/Rear(X2)
Air Spring Solenoid Valve/Front Left
Air Spring Solenoid Valve/Front Right
Compressor
Compressor Bushings
Compressor Relay
Damping Control Actuator
Level Control Solenoid Valve
Ride Control Solenoid Valve
Ride Height Sensor/Front Left
Ride Height Sensor/Front Right
Ride Height Sensor/Rear
Suspension Control ( Automatic - Electronic Level )
Suspension Control Module
Suspension Control Module Wiring/Electical
Suspension Mode Switch
Vehicle Speed Sensor(Signal for Module)
Its your call JRM.....you want functionability w/worry for the dreaded "Check Air Suspension" or do you want reliability, economical, replacement with the same or better ride quality(matter of opinion I guess)?
sleeper
Former LOD President
I never said it was more reliable, I said reliability isn't really an issue with the air suspension.
Struts with coil springs fail just as frequently as struts with air springs, it's just different failure modes. The shock is what fails first, most people just keep driving on spring struts with failed shocks.
Don't keep citing dealer prices for air suspension crap and then telling me it's cheaper than an aftermarket suspension kit. If you're going with dealer prices, price out new factory struts, springs, shocks, etc. for a thunderbird. If you're going to use the $400 for a coil conversion quote, don't try to tell me I need to spend $300 on a solenoid when Eddie has them for $12.
If EVERYTHING failed, yes, it's a no brainer to go with the coil springs.
The most common failures are front struts and compressors. I've heard of a handful of rear bag failures, sensor failures, stuck relays, and solenoid problems. I've never heard of the computer failing. The vehicle speed sensor isn't an air suspension component... if it goes you have to replace it for other reasons as well. When you buy a new compressor it comes with a new dryer.
If you want coil springs, fine, go with the coil springs. But don't tell me it's because of the cost savings and "it's not worth it on this car" when the only failure you've had is front bags and you could have replaced those cheaper than converting to springs.
Don't tell me it's not worth extra cost to maintain the system because the car's not worth that much, then go spend $5000 in mods, either.
Struts with coil springs fail just as frequently as struts with air springs, it's just different failure modes. The shock is what fails first, most people just keep driving on spring struts with failed shocks.
Don't keep citing dealer prices for air suspension crap and then telling me it's cheaper than an aftermarket suspension kit. If you're going with dealer prices, price out new factory struts, springs, shocks, etc. for a thunderbird. If you're going to use the $400 for a coil conversion quote, don't try to tell me I need to spend $300 on a solenoid when Eddie has them for $12.
If EVERYTHING failed, yes, it's a no brainer to go with the coil springs.
The most common failures are front struts and compressors. I've heard of a handful of rear bag failures, sensor failures, stuck relays, and solenoid problems. I've never heard of the computer failing. The vehicle speed sensor isn't an air suspension component... if it goes you have to replace it for other reasons as well. When you buy a new compressor it comes with a new dryer.
If you want coil springs, fine, go with the coil springs. But don't tell me it's because of the cost savings and "it's not worth it on this car" when the only failure you've had is front bags and you could have replaced those cheaper than converting to springs.
Don't tell me it's not worth extra cost to maintain the system because the car's not worth that much, then go spend $5000 in mods, either.
sleeper
Former LOD President
ALL NEW NOT REBUILT (emphasis not mine) should mean all new... new shock portion and everything.
You are correct that Arnott's rebuilt struts don't have new shocks, which is why arnott sucks.
I'd go to Eddie for the bags. Chances are the only air suspension problems you'll have are front struts and the compressor... which means you're looking at maybe $50-$100 more in air suspension maintenance than you would have spent going to coil springs.
and you lose the ability to do this if you go with coil springs
Sorry but my mark 8 is driven far more than 20K a year and I got 200K out of my original parts, so far 150,000 out of the replacements.
Could be that because I drive alot of miles that the bags aren't getting hard, dried out and deteriorating like the 20K and less per year cars are.. but that is only speculation.
I drive my car harder than most, considering the incessant non stop trips to the dragstrip.
Tiffs original air ride in her 93 made it to over 180,000 miles before having any problems.
So there you have two seperate cars, driven by two seperate people that got between 180,000 and 200,000 out of their original bags.
It's been many MANY miles/years since I saw a "check air ride" message.
And for the record...
I've NEVER replaced:
Air Line
Air Line Grommets
Damping Control Actuator
Level Control Solenoid Valve
Ride Control Solenoid Valve
Ride Height Sensor/Front Left
Ride Height Sensor/Front Right
Ride Height Sensor/Rear
Suspension Control ( Automatic - Electronic Level )
Suspension Control Module Wiring/Electical
Suspension Mode Switch
Vehicle Speed Sensor(Signal for Module)
We rebuilt Tiffs air ride with the required components for 650.00.
For the record, I still have 1 original rear bag on my car.
Only 1 leaked and only 1 was replaced, just for clarifications sake.
I am on my third compressor
My original died,because I ignored a leaking front strut so I replaced the compressor.. but not the STRUT.
The second compresser died in a short time due to the fact that I never fixed the problem that made the compressor fail.
When I put the 3rd compressor on my car I replaced both front struts..
The third compressor has been on my car ever since and has buttloads of miles on it
Only 1 leaked and only 1 was replaced, just for clarifications sake.
I am on my third compressor
My original died,because I ignored a leaking front strut so I replaced the compressor.. but not the STRUT.
The second compresser died in a short time due to the fact that I never fixed the problem that made the compressor fail.
When I put the 3rd compressor on my car I replaced both front struts..
The third compressor has been on my car ever since and has buttloads of miles on it
jrm94mark8
Registered
Wow, this is definitely a hot issue. I'm here to report that I've decided to go with coils. I live in the city and while I don't put on a ton of miles per year, the street takes it's toll. I really want to most reliable solution. Also, the mechanic I have is really solid. He specializes in air ride and has always given good advice, been honest etc. He's worked on tons of Marks and has a lot of customers who put on aftermarket front struts only to have them fail or freeze within a year or 2. He said they use really cheap rubber on the bags which a lot of times is the culprit. I know there will always be exceptions - folks here who've had nightmare issues and some with no problems at all. I think if I had a 97 or 98 I wouldn't think twice about staying stock. But again I feel that coils give me the best price, reliability, and chance for fewest headaches.
I'll let everyone know how it turns out and how the ride is.
Thanks
I'll let everyone know how it turns out and how the ride is.
Thanks
hahahaI never said ANY/ALL those things are going to fail....I was merely pointing out the FACT that ALL those parts are part of the air suspension. IF(key word) any of those fail, you're paying more and more depending. If you do the conversion, you'll never have to worry about those. Its not a matter of opinion, its a FACT. Parts fail, some more common than others.
I never quoted dealer prices, I have no idea what all that stuff costs. And when you say that you can "do this with air"(lower a car), thats personal opinion of how YOU want your car to look, PLUS ontop of that you're paying MORE money to make the system functional.
Technically NO, but.....the VSS is required by the Module to supply it with the vehicle speed so it knows when the car reaches 54MPH and than lowers/raises the car. Obviously the VSS has other jobs than this, but according to AllData...the VSS(signal) is part of the Air Suspension(lol, I know it just sounds funny).
This is the answer we needed in the beginning.
I'm glad you guys posted what you Have/Haven't replaced, this will help others out in the future
I never quoted dealer prices, I have no idea what all that stuff costs. And when you say that you can "do this with air"(lower a car), thats personal opinion of how YOU want your car to look, PLUS ontop of that you're paying MORE money to make the system functional.
Technically NO, but.....the VSS is required by the Module to supply it with the vehicle speed so it knows when the car reaches 54MPH and than lowers/raises the car. Obviously the VSS has other jobs than this, but according to AllData...the VSS(signal) is part of the Air Suspension(lol, I know it just sounds funny).
This is the answer we needed in the beginning.
I'm glad you guys posted what you Have/Haven't replaced, this will help others out in the future
By the way, these cars do not have the ride quality you'd expect from a Lincoln. Fortunately they don't have the handling and steering feel you'd expect, either.
I used to own a '93, a friend of mine has a '93, and I currently have a '95 that had all 4 air springs replaced ~10k miles ago. They all have firm rides, and they can be downright harsh on bad roads. I also had a '93 Cougar, which was on the same platform but with coil springs, and it rode the same or slightly worse.
If all the suspension components are in good shape, you aren't hearing any clunking or creaking, and the shocks aren't binding (can you bounce all 4 corners?), then your suspension is probably behaving normally. In that case, your best bet would be to buy a set of tires that are geared toward ride quality and run them with the lowest recommended air pressure.
I used to own a '93, a friend of mine has a '93, and I currently have a '95 that had all 4 air springs replaced ~10k miles ago. They all have firm rides, and they can be downright harsh on bad roads. I also had a '93 Cougar, which was on the same platform but with coil springs, and it rode the same or slightly worse.
If all the suspension components are in good shape, you aren't hearing any clunking or creaking, and the shocks aren't binding (can you bounce all 4 corners?), then your suspension is probably behaving normally. In that case, your best bet would be to buy a set of tires that are geared toward ride quality and run them with the lowest recommended air pressure.
jrm94mark8
Registered
Just want to let everyone know I got my car back a few days ago since converting to struts and springs. Very happy with the ride. My mechanic said my struts were gone...really frozen up. So it's def better but really hard to say if air ride is better or worse because I think my front struts were shot for a while. All I know is it absorbs bumps better, rides firmer and doesn't clunk like before. I also noticed how nice it was on the highway. I really feel the gradual,slow almost gliding-like bounce on the highway. It's very smooth. I think I made the right choice with the age of the car and all the stop and go city driving I do. I did notice that the car seemed a little higher off the ground but it's very minor. Also, my mechanic says that the struts will soften up more in a few weeks.
Happy here-
Thanks for all the input-
Happy here-
Thanks for all the input-