Just another day at the track

[driller]

I took the Blue Flame out for a track rental at the Mason Dixon Dragway this past Saturday.

I had just picked the car up from Rodeheavers Hot Rot Shop where they installed a spanking new torque converter, one of the myriad of problems I've been dealing with as of late. I replaced the DirtyDog Performance converter with one from Circle D - a 4200 stall Stage 3 Multi-disc lockup converter. I basically planned on continuing the track tuning process from where I left off last fall. With the MTF dialed in it was time to concentrate on turning up the timing to see where the peak power would come in.

I had high hopes but left somewhat disappointed. I started with the timing where it was last fall for a baseline. I had the chip pre-programmed with zero degrees added, then plus 2 degrees, plus 4 degrees and plus 6 degrees. The adjustments were not global but only added at high load and the upper rpms... right where the car runs WOT going down the track.

The first pass confirmed the new torque converter was indeed now locking. The datalog showed the trap rpms were several hundred rpms below what had previously been when crossing the beams at the end of the 1/4 mile strip. Good news for once.

Engine temperatures remained well controlled, so no apparent worries with the cooling system. Engine temps peaked at high 180s at the end of the run and quickly returned to the mid 170s when off the throttle.

The new alternator was sustaining over 13 volts throughout the run which was an improvement over the previous alternator which would drop down in the 12.3 to 12.9 volt range.

After the initial base runs I returned to the pits and reviewed the datalogs. I then switched the tune to the +4 degrees and returned to the staging lanes. I ran a couple passes showing some MPH gain in the traps. Another pit stop, switch to the +6 degrees tune and finished out the day looking for more.

I basically felt the car was definitely pulling harder with the added timing but despite picking up a couple MPH in the traps, the best ET I could muster was a 13.462. My highest MPH was 102.59.

The bog at the launch was still present and the best sixty foot time was a disappointing 1.994. With the new converter, I had to be even more careful at the tree so as not to push through the staging lights.

So, at the end of the day we had 11 more passes under our belt but still remain lost as where to go next. I am running out of ideas and even more so, running out of excuses. I could tweak the 2-3 shift point up a few hundred rpms and play with the converter lockup timing but I don't see that netting any huge gains. My gains are going to have to come from the first 60 feet.

I still need to dissect the timeslips and study the datalogs, but when I looked at the datalogs I found an oddity. The "Fuel Source" was logged as "1". According the the SCT software, Fuel Source 1 is "Cylinder cutout - Stabilized - Short Term Fuel Trim at lean stability limit."

I plan to pull the plugs for close examination of any detonation and do a compression test. I have a gut feeling the car is running these numbers on 7 cylinders.

 

[fastmark]

I have a couple of questions for you. What size fuel pump do you use and how old is it? Have you replaced the valve springs with heavy duty ones? I started drag racing in 1969 and come from the old school of basics. Mark

 

[driller]

I have an external Weldon fuel pump with -8 lines for both feed and return as I long ago suspected fueling issues would soon be a problem with bigger mods in the works. I use a pressure transducer and a 0-5 VDC signal from the Zietronix sideband setup to monitor fuel pressure. Datalogs confirm good fuel pressure at all times.

The heads are built and ported B-heads from Fox Lake. I forget the actual components used but they were not stock springs, that's for sure. Previous leak down tests showed no leakage in the valve train (but definite blow-by to the crankcase on 2 cylinders).

 

[fastmark]

It sounds like you have things well in hand. It would seem to me that your down in power some where. Best of luck as you move forward. Mark

 

[97MarkJA]

Driller, you've been fighting with this motor for quite some time now.
Have you looked at the injector timing? I thought I read in your build thread it had custom cams.
I would do another compression check and compare your numbers from last year, make sure you've got good flow at the suspect injectors, and then the timing/components.
I would think if it was running on 7, you would be able to feel that at RPM with those mounts.

 

[Ford nut]

I plan to pull the plugs for close examination of any detonation and do a compression test. I have a gut feeling the car is running these numbers on 7 cylinders.

It is real low on power right out of the box

Do you have a temp gun?
Hit each pipe and see if there is a temp difference after a run, if your dropping a hole it will show.
Or stall the converter on jack stands, hit pipes, read plugs.
Follow your gut.

 

[mlschultz]

JP, My thoughts from the peanut gallery regarding your bog at the line...

If I recall, you no longer have IMRC's. To compensate for that decision of IMRC delete, it is my opinion you really need to be aggressive launching the Blue Flame by either using a trans brake or even at a minimum, a 2 step. Hopefully, your cams were ground with the deleted IMRC's in mind to take full advantage. I don't think launching from idle is an option for you, if that is your current method.

 

[driller]

It sounds like you have things well in hand. It would seem to me that your down in power some where. Best of luck as you move forward. Mark

Not so sure on having things well in hand, but yes, we obviously are down in power. Thanks for the well wishes.

Driller, you've been fighting with this motor for quite some time now.
Have you looked at the injector timing? I thought I read in your build thread it had custom cams.
I would do another compression check and compare your numbers from last year, make sure you've got good flow at the suspect injectors, and then the timing/components.
I would think if it was running on 7, you would be able to feel that at RPM with those mounts.

Yeah, it's been a battle for far too long. Mostly because of lack of real time to put into the project but there has been several other issues that have plagued the car as well and it has just taken some time to get them sorted out.

I went through a slew of calculations on injector timing but came up with an infinitesimal correction and concluded I had more serious corrections to make at this time. Also, without a stable STFT, I have hesitated making some of the less obvious changes in the tune.

The compression check will hopefully put all this in perspective.

It is real low on power right out of the box

Do you have a temp gun?
Hit each pipe and see if there is a temp difference after a run, if your dropping a hole it will show.
Or stall the converter on jack stands, hit pipes, read plugs.
Follow your gut.

Man, great idea. I've used a temp gun for all sorts of diagnostics at work so I'm quite sure that should show a problem with a suspect cylinder. Almost makes me wish I had individual EGT sensors on each header pipe like the big boys do.

If I recall, you no longer have IMRC's. To compensate for that decision of IMRC delete, it is my opinion you really need to be aggressive launching the Blue Flame by either using a trans brake or even at a minimum, a 2 step. Hopefully, your cams were ground with the deleted IMRC's in mind to take full advantage. I don't think launching from idle is an option for you, if that is your current method.

Thing is, the deletes have been on the whole time with the stroker 5.0 block and the car ran pretty darn well before it started going downhill. At the time, lack of data logging capability was seen as the next hurdle. It was then we decided to convert it to OBD2.

As far as launching, I have found with the high stall converter hits best when foot braking aggressively as the brakes will allow. The two step or trans brake has certainly been considered but other challenges have bumped them down the list.

I appreciate the feedback and suggestions from all.

 

[Ford nut]

Man, great idea. I've used a temp gun for all sorts of diagnostics at work so I'm quite sure that should show a problem with a suspect cylinder. Almost makes me wish I had individual EGT sensors on each header pipe like the big boys do.

Its a old trick, used to use a squirt bottle with water when the numbers were low to find a small problem before it becomes a big problem.
Everyone wants to see a better 60 foot out of this car, no one more then you.
FWIW
I hope your wrong and its not dropping a hole.

 

[KStromberg]

Sorry to hear of your racecar "woes". It's just crazy how the car runs a 12.550 at one point in time and then backsteps the entire way since. I remember being a big mouth to my dyno tuner and it costed me a couple tenths or more factoring in weight reduction and such when I went too high with my shift points, but it is obvious this is a much more complicated issue that you have at hand. I at least can give you pretty big props for trying to see how far you can get on a naturally aspirated setup on the Blue Flame. I've been addicted to the boost game since I started playing with Big Red but I really wanted to get low 13s out of Frosty and it never happened. You've already been there and beyond with this same car, so you must be beyond frustrated. Something has to give somewhere. If I recall correctly, this car is definitely making the power to be a deep 12 car all day long. I hope you figure it out.

IMRCs? Naaah. They were gone on Doug's car and his short times were right in line with his ETs on the footbrake and was trapping almost 105 mph still in 13 second territory. That oddity that you discovered though........hmm.

 

[mlschultz]

Not so sure on having things well in hand, but yes, we obviously are down in power. Thanks for the well wishes.



Yeah, it's been a battle for far too long. Mostly because of lack of real time to put into the project but there has been several other issues that have plagued the car as well and it has just taken some time to get them sorted out.

I went through a slew of calculations on injector timing but came up with an infinitesimal correction and concluded I had more serious corrections to make at this time. Also, without a stable STFT, I have hesitated making some of the less obvious changes in the tune.

The compression check will hopefully put all this in perspective.



Man, great idea. I've used a temp gun for all sorts of diagnostics at work so I'm quite sure that should show a problem with a suspect cylinder. Almost makes me wish I had individual EGT sensors on each header pipe like the big boys do.



Thing is, the deletes have been on the whole time with the stroker 5.0 block and the car ran pretty darn well before it started going downhill. At the time, lack of data logging capability was seen as the next hurdle. It was then we decided to convert it to OBD2.

As far as launching, I have found with the high stall converter hits best when foot braking aggressively as the brakes will allow. The two step or trans brake has certainly been considered but other challenges have bumped them down the list.

I appreciate the feedback and suggestions from all.

Sorry to hear of your racecar "woes". It's just crazy how the car runs a 12.550 at one point in time and then backsteps the entire way since. I remember being a big mouth to my dyno tuner and it costed me a couple tenths or more factoring in weight reduction and such when I went too high with my shift points, but it is obvious this is a much more complicated issue that you have at hand. I at least can give you pretty big props for trying to see how far you can get on a naturally aspirated setup on the Blue Flame. I've been addicted to the boost game since I started playing with Big Red but I really wanted to get low 13s out of Frosty and it never happened. You've already been there and beyond with this same car, so you must be beyond frustrated. Something has to give somewhere. If I recall correctly, this car is definitely making the power to be a deep 12 car all day long. I hope you figure it out.

IMRCs? Naaah. They were gone on Doug's car and his short times were right in line with his ETs on the footbrake and was trapping almost 105 mph still in 13 second territory. That oddity that you discovered though........hmm.

Kirk, My opinion, you can't compare Doug's to JP's setup. JP's engine is in another time zone. Foot braking JP's car is not good enough. Like he said, he is overpowering the brakes, and I am sure he is nowhere near where that car needs to be to capitalize on the high stall tc and just below peak engine torque. He needs a trans brake to load that car up and launch in the sweet spot to see 1.6-5's consistently.