Blue Flame, All Out

driller

El Presidente
Staff member
I'm just starting to work on the Blue Flame (when I can find the time) and I have decided either before or just after the body work, I am going all out on the engine and doing a fully forged bottom end to go along with the already ported heads and custom cams.

I have had this in the planning stages for a while and I have decided to quit putting it off and just do it. I talked to the closest guy I trust around here and he graciously declined to build the motor but would be willing to do the install, break-in and help in the tuning.

I want it to be a high-compression naturally-aspirated build. I'm on the fence with the stroker kit, but I realize the value of the added cubes. Nitrous would likely be in the future for the track and possibly a water alcohol/methanol injection setup for the street.

The heads and cams were from Fox Lake Racing and he will be my first contact for the shortblock. MMR, Livernois and ModMax are also some places I've researched.

The driveline already has virtually everything else done including a built transmission, high-stall converter, MMX driveshaft, 4.30 gears with a Detroit Tru-Trak differential with just about every brace you could imagine except a true driveshaft loop.

So, let's get this discussion started. What are the best parts and what would your choices be? How much compression and how do we get there?

Anyone got a good spare Teskid block laying around? :D
 
Why didn't he want to do the engine build? Any reason why you want to stay away from forced induction?

He builds engines all the time and has built Ford modulars but just doesn't feel comfortable going to this level. Heck he has a couple 9 second shop cars.

"Everyone" does forced induction, I want to be different. ;)

I still want to put a mild Vortech setup on the '96 later. So, it's not like I'm against forced induction. :D
 
Sounds great, JP! lol Where to begin... :) If I were to do it again, I would first look into purchasing a FRPP 10:1 NA Aluminator - sell what you don't need, and be done with it. :)

If you must forge your stock block, the closest builder I know of to you is where my nephew Eric works: http://www.piedmontcustommotorsports.com/ They are in Raleigh, and can build your motor and a roll cage - if you plan to go better than 11.5 :)

As you know, I have every hook up possible here in the ATL, including ProLine Race Engines http://www.prolineracing.net/ if you really want to go nuts with your set up :)

The ProLine stroker kit on my motor, is all Manley parts. 9.5:1 compression, 3.572 Bore, 3.75 Stroke, H beam rods, .020 oversized 11cc dish pistons, ARP 2000 bolts.

Just let me know if I can help in any way :)
 
He builds engines all the time and has built Ford modulars but just doesn't feel comfortable going to this level. Heck he has a couple 9 second shop cars.

"Everyone" does forced induction, I want to be different. ;)

I still want to put a mild Vortech setup on the '96 later. So, it's not like I'm against forced induction. :D

What kind of build are you planning when you are scaring away a guy that build 9 second cars??? :)

I mean you can't beat the sound of a high compression motor with a nice cam.

If you are going to go all motor I would probably be worth stroking it to get the extra cubes. That in combination with 13:1 CR, some cams designed for the set up and its going to be a bad ass set up! Man...custom cams alone get expensive just because these motors have four of them.

I demand build progress pictures like Jeremi is putting up!
 
I have a good short block no heads though but its got 120000 on it

Only need the block, and that would be to just have the engine built beforehand to minimize downtime.

Sounds great, JP! lol Where to begin... :) If I were to do it again, I would first look into purchasing a FRPP 10:1 NA Aluminator - sell what you don't need, and be done with it. :)

If you must forge your stock block, the closest builder I know of to you is where my nephew Eric works: http://www.piedmontcustommotorsports.com/ They are in Raleigh, and can build your motor and a roll cage - if you plan to go better than 11.5 :)

As you know, I have every hook up possible here in the ATL, including ProLine Race Engines http://www.prolineracing.net/ if you really want to go nuts with your set up :)

The ProLine stroker kit on my motor, is all Manley parts. 9.5:1 compression, 3.572 Bore, 3.75 Stroke, H beam rods, .020 oversized 11cc dish pistons, ARP 2000 bolts.

Just let me know if I can help in any way :)

Oh I figure you (and some others) to have all the connections. That's one reason I'm posting this and not building it incognito. ;)

As far as the Aluminator, my only hesitancy would be the stock compression ratio. I think I am looking for more than 10.0:1 compression ratio. At least I'd like to think so. But, in all the research I have done, the Aluminator does keep coming to the forefront of options.

I already have the 'top end' and new timing chains, gears, etc... and I would be using the same accessories and intake I currently have. I am just looking to complete the package with a shortblock more than capable of whatever may come its way. I still want the car to be 4.6L platform, street capable and yes, naturally aspirated.

Nitrous would come much later and only at the track once I hit the wall on HP, so I'm not sure where the cage would come in. ;)
 
If you are staying at 10:1 why is your engine builder scared off?? Does he just not have a whole lot of background with the mod motors? You could always have Jeremi's Lideo at Alternative Automotive build your short block and have it shipped to you on a pallet.
 
If you are staying at 10:1 why is your engine builder scared off?? Does he just not have a whole lot of background with the mod motors? You could always have Jeremi's Lideo at Alternative Automotive build your short block and have it shipped to you on a pallet.

You misread... I am looking for MORE than 10:1, likely 12 to 13 or even higher. The only limit would be what is physically doable without decking that would require a change on the cam timing drive chains setup.
 
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Sounds exciting! :D
 
If you have the specs of the heads, (cc's), that FL did for you, there is a chart here that will show you the choice of piston configurations offered by Manley. I would think that as you approached the 11's you would be limiting yourself to Race Fuels. JMHO

http://www.manleyperformance.com/niche/ford_46_pistons.shtml

yea, don't go to high with the compression, or you may have to back off on the timing with pump gas and that sort of defeats the purpose.
 
If you have the specs of the heads, (cc's), that FL did for you, there is a chart here that will show you the choice of piston configurations offered by Manley. I would think that as you approached the 11's you would be limiting yourself to Race Fuels. JMHO

http://www.manleyperformance.com/niche/ford_46_pistons.shtml

Thanks for the info!

yea, don't go to high with the compression, or you may have to back off on the timing with pump gas and that sort of defeats the purpose.

I can be rather accomodating with the CR as I can run different tunes for different scenarios. One of the tunes would be for the street using pump gas and lower timing advance. Race gas, alky and/or nitrous at the track can all be done at the flip of the switch. ;)
 
You misread... I am looking for MORE than 10:1, likely 12 to 13 or even higher. The only limit would be what is physically doable without decking that would require a change on the cam timing drive chains setup.

haha I didn't see "MORE than" Sounds good, can't wait to see it take shape!
 
While I personally cannot offer you any advice on that high a compression built, you have a PM with other info ;)

... oh, and it's about damn time !
 
There is some more read for you in your SHM engine book on page 27 middle of the page.

"NA street 4 valve engines can run at 11.5:1 on 93 octane fuel. This can be achieved with a dome piston, with the dome milled down to .125 inch tall"

I would take what he says here as possible, but I still would want to see if my builder would buy into the notion. There is also a picture of the piston in the book also. It sure looks pretty with all the machining on it.
 
So is 11.5:1 the limit for this motor? Seems low.... Or is that because because of interference that a domed piston would have with the head design...?
 
According to SH they got as far as 13:1 in piston development and stopped. I suspect because of diminishing returns and issues with flame travel. He said he preferred .090" clearance from piston top to intake valve so that a dome head had to be machine either way (no off the shelf standard).

I only have been referring to SHM as a source for information that has at least been published from a respectable engine builder. "I have no dog in the fight", but this thread got me back to some of my old books that I highlighted in when I was doing my investigations into the transplant for "Whiner", and I found it fun and interesting to go back there and get reacquainted. Driller has us on the hunt, and we got the time and inclination to do it. Thank You Driller !!!
 
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