My 4r70w story

Mad1stGen

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My transmission story:

Few months ago I bought this 98 CE from Jeff. It came loaded with a Dennis Reinhart built transmission. During a testdrive I noticed the trans didn't shift to my liking. At that time I blamed poor tuning and stock gearing.

Few days later the car was re-tuned by Lidio, and while not overwhelming, it definitely shifted a little better. There were big plans for the car, so I just let it go. Lidio also noted that the trans shifted very soft for being built. :confused:

The new motor went into the car couple months ago, and it was time to dynotune it. After couple pulls the motor tune was done, no big surprises there.

However, during the test drive my jaw dropped. The car wouldn’t shift 1-2 at all under WOT; it would over rev the shift and slip like crazy. All right, let’s try pure 2nd gear. From 2.5k RPMs we would get clutch chatter beyond my understanding. 2-3 was equally weak and over revved. OD wouldn’t engage under anything other that light throttle. Can you say slippage?

I didn’t know what to think then. I called Jeff to question the transmission he installed in the car. Everything checked out and I was back to now “my” problem.

I pulled the trans the next day, and took it all apart with a friend’s supervision. What we found was very, very surprising.

The trans was built in a really old 94 style case (very bad), using stock (??) alto rebuilt kits for clutch packs, stock 94 one way roller (instead of mechanical diode clutch), old design intermediate shaft, and topped off with a shift kit made by TRANSGO :eek: . The frictions were worn completely, the OD band was worn to the rivets, all in 10k miles. We were lost for words. Jeff paid almost $2200 for this performance built transmission. It performed worse than a stock 98 trans would.

I decided to let this one go, as almost all parts would need to be replaced with updated 98+ style parts. I couldn’t sleep at night thinking what a rip off this really was. I will refrain from using foul language, but you can imagine what was going thru my mind. :fart

I picked up a 2001 core and decided to rebuild it. Friend of mine put me in touch with a old Ford trans builder, who didn’t mind my endless questions while the trans was being built to MY specs.

We have 01 core, with mechanical OWC, spiral lock kit, 4 frictions in the intermediate, 7 frictions in the direct, and 6 frictions in the forward. Valve body has been drilled to highest specs, and only top 1-2 brown spring was used. OD servo was updated as well as other miscellaneous upgrades were performed. All was done in one day without any problems.

built_4r70w.jpg


The result? 1-2 shift is brutal ! It burns 315/35 Drag Radials thru the shift :D . The 2-3 is even better, as the car twists from the TQ. I hope to back down some pressure via the tune to soften up partial throttle shifts. I waited long for this day though when I can finally go fast again !

Overall, these transmissions are not built by rocket scientists. Yet, the DR trans was definitely a work of (con) art !

Thanx for reading :cool:
 
Congratulations, Jeremi. These cars really wake up with a built transmission , high stall torque converter, and a sc. I am still a little chicken to turn off my traction control while on the street. From a medium throttle dig, my 1-2 will bark the tires with the traction control on. Gotta love it. :)
 
I don't like high stall TCs nor do I need one. 440 ft/lb at 2800rpms is more than enough to move the car.

Leave the TC off you're hurting more than you're helping it.
 
im not sure about on 2nd gens but i know on 2st gens the traction control goes away at 45 mph. i read on the net that the TC starts going away at about 25mph and it all gone by about 45mph. which is fine for a stock car there aint no way your going to smoke the tires at 45mph with just about any stock car. like i said i not sure how it works on 2nd gens.

how much do you think you have into your built trans? including the 01 core about how much do you think you have in parts total?
 
Yep, that's true. You have a different animal than mine. You are not the first person to tell me to leave the tc off. In fact, Aric wanted to make it so it was off all the time, and you would have to turn it on if you wanted it. I still might do just that.

Again, glad to hear you are happy with your transmission build. What a great car you have built. Can't wait to see it next month... :)
 
The trick is to start with as new a core as possible. I won't quote numbers as deals come and go. It wasn't $2200 though ... not even close ;)

Unfortunately you can't make teh TC stay off upon start up with SCT. It's possible in the mustang, but on the m8 you'd have to wire in a circuit to do it for you.
I enjoy driving this car so much, that the whole prep(including tc off) before take off ;) takes few seconds, almost like a ritual ;)
 
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My transmission story:

Few months ago I bought this 98 CE from Jeff. It came loaded with a Dennis Reinhart built transmission...

After reading that far I knew the 'rest of the story'. :(

Sounds like you came out of it better than most. ;)

Now excuse me while I go out and kiss my transmission. :D
 
Jeremi... we already knew about this BS... well documented... I think Art Carr built those crappy transmissions.

Sad part is the OEM trans was probably better. Why was it changed out?
 
Now excuse me while I go out and kiss my transmission. :D

You should JP, but then again these transmissions are not as weak as people make them out to be. Especially when they are properly modified, even only at the VB level. If it dies, build it yourself, trust me it's easier than you think.

Max, I guess Jeff got sucked into the whole "built trans' gimmick run by many sellers. The stock 98 trans with modded VB and PROPER shift tune would've held up fine to that wimpy 100 shot that was installed on this car.
 
J, nice write up. I'm thinking I may go a similar route in the near future. The trans in mine feels like there some slippage when I'm heavy on the throttle on a 1-2. Also it flares somewhat on a down shift from 4-3, even under pretty light throttle conditions. How much of the trans work did you do yourself?
 
Are you talking about the 97 ?

Is there slippage while in gear, or during the shift ? I never felt anything wrong, but I could always feel the tires slip. Check the rear view mirror after this occurs ;) But then again the trans in that car is a stock 03 unit, with no internal upgrades other than VB mod. FYI it was installed at 103k miles and never run without boost of some kind ;)

4-3 flare is unavoidable with anything more than stock gearing. You HAVE to stay out of OD when heavy on the throttle.

I suspect that the shift points need a little adjustment since the car wasn't retuned with the smaller pulley. HP difference might not be great, but TQ is up there, for sure.

If I had the sleeve tools for the lip seals on the clutch pistons, I would do it all myself. I had the friend mechanic assemble the clutch packs. Then we reinstalled the whole thing into the case together. The last part is figuring out the pump clearance and you need a special gauge bar to do this. It's really not a big deal, just pay attention to details. Then check it again ;)
 
Yea it's the 97. 99% of the time I manually shift out of OD if I'm on the highway and know I'm going to be getting on it. That flare has only happed once or twice when I first picked it up and was on the way home. With the 1-2, it will light up the tires with ease as you know but I think I'm feeling a little slippage, but I'll have to have to check out the rear view next time. My 95 will light up the tires with ease on the 1-2 so I know the feeling of tire slippage vs trans. Anyway, what do you think a reasonable price for a late model core? I've seen a few in the 600 range or so, some more.
 
You have the best core in there already (short of 5.4 planetary). Use that. It's not like you'll be pushing snow with the car over the winter ;)

Remember that chirping or blowing tires on a 1-2 shift is not really a good sign. If your stock car does it, it's tuned too harsh. Once you make some power they feel a lot different, and it won't shift as firm as a stock car with overbuilt trans.
 
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If your stock car does it, it's tuned too harsh.
Agreed, a few months back I had the tune revised and the line pressures lowered a back to stock for the 1-2 shift. Big improvement. I need to take one of the shims out of the 1-2 accumulator to get it perfect. Next trans flush that will happen.


It's not like you'll be pushing snow with the car over the winter
The only time it will even see snow is if I open the garage and a flake blows in! =)
 
I spoke with Lidio today about the issues you're having.

The 4-3 flare is unavoidable. It's caused by extra torque (about the only bad reason LOL) and lack of tunning options in our older ECUs. In 03-04 Ford introduced the torque reduction parameter and the flare can be significantly reduced with tuning. Our computers are like old 96-98 mustang gt style, and lack all the cool new stuff.
 
J, thanks for the heads up. I had a feeling it was due to the torque but I didn't know that it wasn't fixable with a tune. No biggie, I just hit od off any time I get on it on the highway.

Did I mention I love driving it? I look forward to every time I get in it!
 
OK, so since it seems that rienhart trans are not so good, who makes a good performance trans for our cars, or at least who makes a good rebuild kit for them? So I can start preparing for it this winter.
 
Ford makes the best rebuild kit. You can build that trans with OEM parts and it can be stronger that any aftermarket stuff. Frictions are better, steels are proper thickness, OD band is fine. The only area that might require some aftermarket is the VB, but if you start with a brand new one, it shouldn't be needed.
 
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