Thinking about trucks... (Navigators)
- Thread starter HOTLNC
- Start date
RE: Thinking about trucks...
RE: Thinking about trucks...
Diesel, dude, diesel!
7.3L Powerstroke - Intercooled
F250 SuperDuty - Extended Cab 4X4
6 speed w/ Manual Transfer case & Manual Hubs
I KNOW I'm prejudiced, I drive mine daily.
Put on a set of gauges. Monitor your EGTs for a while. Then open up the intake, throw in a 4" downpipe from the turbo, and then go with a full 5" open exhaust. Look at how much lower your EGTs are. Then get a power programmer of your choice and crank up the HP until the EGTs are back up to where they were. More HP and better mileage.
If it's a 'truck' you want, I don't believe you would be happy with a Navigator. Now if you want a 4WD 'utility vehicle' and not necessarily a truck, then I would opt for the Navi.
RE: Thinking about trucks...
Diesel, dude, diesel!
7.3L Powerstroke - Intercooled
F250 SuperDuty - Extended Cab 4X4
6 speed w/ Manual Transfer case & Manual Hubs
I KNOW I'm prejudiced, I drive mine daily.
Put on a set of gauges. Monitor your EGTs for a while. Then open up the intake, throw in a 4" downpipe from the turbo, and then go with a full 5" open exhaust. Look at how much lower your EGTs are. Then get a power programmer of your choice and crank up the HP until the EGTs are back up to where they were. More HP and better mileage.
If it's a 'truck' you want, I don't believe you would be happy with a Navigator. Now if you want a 4WD 'utility vehicle' and not necessarily a truck, then I would opt for the Navi.
RE: Thinking about trucks...
RE: Thinking about trucks...
BTW - as far as mileage, my '02 7.3L Powerstroke only gets 14 mpg highway and 12.5-13.5 mpg mixed driving. Before the breathing mods it would get 12 mpg, period. With the cost of diesel fuel today, they are not as cheap to drive as they were once upon a time.
The cost of maintenance can also be pricey on a diesel. Resale value is generally good to very good. But you may luck out and find one someone is dumping to get a hybrid compact.
RE: Thinking about trucks...
BTW - as far as mileage, my '02 7.3L Powerstroke only gets 14 mpg highway and 12.5-13.5 mpg mixed driving. Before the breathing mods it would get 12 mpg, period. With the cost of diesel fuel today, they are not as cheap to drive as they were once upon a time.
The cost of maintenance can also be pricey on a diesel. Resale value is generally good to very good. But you may luck out and find one someone is dumping to get a hybrid compact.
sleeper
Former LOD President
RE: Thinking about trucks...
RE: Thinking about trucks...
Hence my originally wanting the diesel. However i probably will not be able to afford to spend 20k on a truck this winter anyway, and I really don't need a diesel to tow 7000 lbs a dozen times a year, so i think the navigator is a good choice, epecially for 13k or less. Plus, a navigator is like a beefy mark 8, i already know how it works. (not that i don't understand diesels).
And the mod potential of a diesel is a good reason not to buy it. It's just too tempting, and when stuff breaks, expensive. I already have a fountain. Go read the forums at www.offshoreonly.com if you want to see mod potential. 1 motor or two? mercruiser makes motors up to 800 or so HP out of the box. And you can make 1000+ hp with a BBC. etc. etc. Bottom line, i don't need anything else that i'll want to mod. The mark didn't get much attention itself this year.
I figure a navi will get much better gas mileage than my 91 suburban. If i can pull 16 highway out of it, that's a 33% improvement and a 25% cost savings with a lower maintenance cost. With an excursion (cheaper than the pickups for some reason) maintenance costs will be higher, fuel costs will be similar (more with current diesel prices). So I operating costs between a diesel and a navigator will be close to even. navi will be easier to park, and will still tow the boat just fine. I'll just know it's back there, unlike with the diesel.
RE: Thinking about trucks...
Hence my originally wanting the diesel. However i probably will not be able to afford to spend 20k on a truck this winter anyway, and I really don't need a diesel to tow 7000 lbs a dozen times a year, so i think the navigator is a good choice, epecially for 13k or less. Plus, a navigator is like a beefy mark 8, i already know how it works. (not that i don't understand diesels).
And the mod potential of a diesel is a good reason not to buy it. It's just too tempting, and when stuff breaks, expensive. I already have a fountain. Go read the forums at www.offshoreonly.com if you want to see mod potential. 1 motor or two? mercruiser makes motors up to 800 or so HP out of the box. And you can make 1000+ hp with a BBC. etc. etc. Bottom line, i don't need anything else that i'll want to mod. The mark didn't get much attention itself this year.
I figure a navi will get much better gas mileage than my 91 suburban. If i can pull 16 highway out of it, that's a 33% improvement and a 25% cost savings with a lower maintenance cost. With an excursion (cheaper than the pickups for some reason) maintenance costs will be higher, fuel costs will be similar (more with current diesel prices). So I operating costs between a diesel and a navigator will be close to even. navi will be easier to park, and will still tow the boat just fine. I'll just know it's back there, unlike with the diesel.
sleeper
Former LOD President
RE: Thinking about trucks...
RE: Thinking about trucks...
Well i'm approved for a loan. Good for 30 days. Gonna be shopping. I kind of want a black one with chrome wheels to match the mark. But shopping used means shopping for condition and not necessarily color.
Looks like i can buy one of the cheaper ones listed and still borrow enough extra to pay off the mark. but that kind of forces me to be a little less picky, or to buy off of a private owner. I think i'm going to be looking for good mechanical condition and a good looking body and i'm not going to be picky about stuff like worn leather or floor mats or not having all the options. Honestly, i don't care if the rear seat passengers have to sit on a bench or in buckets... they'll still be happy to be in a navigator. nav system would be kinda cool though. Moonroof would be a plus and a minus. moonroofs are cool but they all leak when they get old enough. any other major options on these things to look for?
looked at one today for 11k, but it had already sold this morning (i looked at lunch). The airbag was a slightly different color from the steering wheel. I didn't pop the hood or get underneath so i can't really tell if it was wrecked or how bad, but i'd say better than 50/50 chance that airbag isn't original.
RE: Thinking about trucks...
Well i'm approved for a loan. Good for 30 days. Gonna be shopping. I kind of want a black one with chrome wheels to match the mark
. But shopping used means shopping for condition and not necessarily color.Looks like i can buy one of the cheaper ones listed and still borrow enough extra to pay off the mark. but that kind of forces me to be a little less picky, or to buy off of a private owner. I think i'm going to be looking for good mechanical condition and a good looking body and i'm not going to be picky about stuff like worn leather or floor mats or not having all the options. Honestly, i don't care if the rear seat passengers have to sit on a bench or in buckets... they'll still be happy to be in a navigator. nav system would be kinda cool though. Moonroof would be a plus and a minus. moonroofs are cool but they all leak when they get old enough. any other major options on these things to look for?
looked at one today for 11k, but it had already sold this morning (i looked at lunch). The airbag was a slightly different color from the steering wheel. I didn't pop the hood or get underneath so i can't really tell if it was wrecked or how bad, but i'd say better than 50/50 chance that airbag isn't original.
RE: Thinking about trucks...
RE: Thinking about trucks...
Dave,
I have an 04 Navi which has some different options, but should be about the same as far as mpg goes. I get anywhere from 13-15 mixed highway and city. As for towing it tows pretty good. Of course it cannot keep up with the diesel in the towing compartment.
Not sure how the older ones are, but I have had a few issues with the quality of the driver seat. It has been replaced 2 times in the past year and had a problem with the tire pressure sensor (dont think the older ones have this sensor). The sensor problem was caused when they put on new tires and hit the sensor. Just waiting on a replacement for them to put in.
One bad thing with the Navi is that when the last row seat is up there is no cargo storage what so ever. I mean your lucky to fit a bag or two back there with the seat up.
RE: Thinking about trucks...
Dave,
I have an 04 Navi which has some different options, but should be about the same as far as mpg goes. I get anywhere from 13-15 mixed highway and city. As for towing it tows pretty good. Of course it cannot keep up with the diesel in the towing compartment.
Not sure how the older ones are, but I have had a few issues with the quality of the driver seat. It has been replaced 2 times in the past year and had a problem with the tire pressure sensor (dont think the older ones have this sensor). The sensor problem was caused when they put on new tires and hit the sensor. Just waiting on a replacement for them to put in.
One bad thing with the Navi is that when the last row seat is up there is no cargo storage what so ever. I mean your lucky to fit a bag or two back there with the seat up.
RE: Thinking about trucks...
RE: Thinking about trucks...
Dave, we have a '00 Gator. It does have the 5.4 DOHC.
Haven't towed much with it, the most was maybe a trailer weighed down to 3000lbs. Most towing goes to the F250. Around town we see anywhere between 12-14 mpg. On the interstate usually averaging around 17 or so, but I have seen it up to 19.
Handling of the car SUCKS. Horrible. I have driven an 04 though and its much improved on the handling. My biggest complaint about it is that they should've added more wood trim to it. Other than that the 5.4 is a fairly good powerplant for it. Its perky and I've pushed it to 120mph and it still had some left. The Auto 4WD is nice for down here and I'm sure it would be for up there as well.
The coolest thing about it was my dad ended up getting his F250 stuck in the mud. Covered all 4 wheels about 3/4 of the way up with mud. My mom had the Gator out there too on top of the hill on dry ground. For shits and grins we thought we'd try pulling it out before we called a tow truck. The Gator just dug in and pulled the truck out. When it was all over it had dug about a foot deep rut in the ground and just slowly inched its way backward and pulled the F250 out. So its got some grunt to it also.
There was a recall on the cruise control as well... something about them catching on fire. No tire sensors on the 00. Cargo storage like said above is very limited with the 3rd row seat in. However its is about a 2 minute job to pull that seat out. But it is heavy.
RE: Thinking about trucks...
Dave, we have a '00 Gator. It does have the 5.4 DOHC.
Haven't towed much with it, the most was maybe a trailer weighed down to 3000lbs. Most towing goes to the F250. Around town we see anywhere between 12-14 mpg. On the interstate usually averaging around 17 or so, but I have seen it up to 19.
Handling of the car SUCKS. Horrible. I have driven an 04 though and its much improved on the handling. My biggest complaint about it is that they should've added more wood trim to it. Other than that the 5.4 is a fairly good powerplant for it. Its perky and I've pushed it to 120mph and it still had some left. The Auto 4WD is nice for down here and I'm sure it would be for up there as well.
The coolest thing about it was my dad ended up getting his F250 stuck in the mud. Covered all 4 wheels about 3/4 of the way up with mud. My mom had the Gator out there too on top of the hill on dry ground. For shits and grins we thought we'd try pulling it out before we called a tow truck. The Gator just dug in and pulled the truck out. When it was all over it had dug about a foot deep rut in the ground and just slowly inched its way backward and pulled the F250 out. So its got some grunt to it also.
There was a recall on the cruise control as well... something about them catching on fire. No tire sensors on the 00. Cargo storage like said above is very limited with the 3rd row seat in. However its is about a 2 minute job to pull that seat out. But it is heavy.
RE: Thinking about trucks...
RE: Thinking about trucks...
I have an 03 that I use to pull a motorcycle trailer. Last week I towed my gf's Taurus with a Uhaul trailer. With the air ride you can barely tell a trailer + 3000lb car is back there. My previous truck was a 2000 that ended up being a lemon. So although the 00 felt quicker the 03 has a night/day advantage for handling. I believe power running boards, power 3rd row seat, power hatch - all that stuff adds weight. Both required quite a few visits to the dealer - really think Ford needs to step it up regarding quality control from vendors. With fuel prices the way they are you should be able to find a clean example.
RE: Thinking about trucks...
I have an 03 that I use to pull a motorcycle trailer. Last week I towed my gf's Taurus with a Uhaul trailer. With the air ride you can barely tell a trailer + 3000lb car is back there. My previous truck was a 2000 that ended up being a lemon. So although the 00 felt quicker the 03 has a night/day advantage for handling. I believe power running boards, power 3rd row seat, power hatch - all that stuff adds weight. Both required quite a few visits to the dealer - really think Ford needs to step it up regarding quality control from vendors. With fuel prices the way they are you should be able to find a clean example.
sleeper
Former LOD President
RE: Thinking about trucks...
RE: Thinking about trucks...
What do you mean by "handling sucks"?
My requirements for handling are that it handles turns as well as my 91 suburban, and tracks straighter down the highway. I don't expect mark 8 handling. Does it have a lot of body roll?
I've been looking mostly online so far. I've gone to look at 2, one was sold already and the other was off the lot at the time, so i still haven't driven one.
Thanks for the info guys. I'd probably pull out the 3rd row seat and not use it very often. I believe they got the folding third row in 03, so i'll end up having to pull it out. Didn't they get a 5 speed tranny in 03 also? Do the 00's have a 4r70w?
RE: Thinking about trucks...
What do you mean by "handling sucks"?
My requirements for handling are that it handles turns as well as my 91 suburban, and tracks straighter down the highway. I don't expect mark 8 handling. Does it have a lot of body roll?
I've been looking mostly online so far. I've gone to look at 2, one was sold already and the other was off the lot at the time, so i still haven't driven one.
Thanks for the info guys. I'd probably pull out the 3rd row seat and not use it very often. I believe they got the folding third row in 03, so i'll end up having to pull it out. Didn't they get a 5 speed tranny in 03 also? Do the 00's have a 4r70w?
RE: Thinking about trucks...
RE: Thinking about trucks...
handling sucks - yes they have tons of body roll. As in those yellow signs on offramps are there for a reason. It will track straight down the highway, as in you can turn around and grab stuff out of the middle row if you want, look back up and still be in the same lane.
The '00 does have the 4r70w, I'm not sure about the 03. Performance wise I would definetly give the edge to the 00 over the 03-04. Like said above the newer style added even more weight. I'm not a big fan of the power running boards... not like your going to take it offroad much anyhow. But if you want to the car will do it. The power folding seat is nice though. If you take out the 3rd row in the older models you still have the seat track there and a metal bar that does fold down. Not to comfortable to lay on.
Let me look on my other comp. and see if I have any pics of it. If not I'll be able to get some this weekend when I'm at home.
RE: Thinking about trucks...
handling sucks - yes they have tons of body roll. As in those yellow signs on offramps are there for a reason. It will track straight down the highway, as in you can turn around and grab stuff out of the middle row if you want, look back up and still be in the same lane.
The '00 does have the 4r70w, I'm not sure about the 03. Performance wise I would definetly give the edge to the 00 over the 03-04. Like said above the newer style added even more weight. I'm not a big fan of the power running boards... not like your going to take it offroad much anyhow. But if you want to the car will do it. The power folding seat is nice though. If you take out the 3rd row in the older models you still have the seat track there and a metal bar that does fold down. Not to comfortable to lay on.
Let me look on my other comp. and see if I have any pics of it. If not I'll be able to get some this weekend when I'm at home.
RE: Thinking about trucks...
RE: Thinking about trucks...
only pics of it that I have here. If you want something else let me know I can grab it this weekend.
http://www.mark8.org/users/jayello/gator.jpg
http://www.mark8.org/users/jayello/Navigator1.JPG
http://www.mark8.org/users/jayello/Navigator2.JPG
RE: Thinking about trucks...
only pics of it that I have here. If you want something else let me know I can grab it this weekend.
http://www.mark8.org/users/jayello/gator.jpg
http://www.mark8.org/users/jayello/Navigator1.JPG
http://www.mark8.org/users/jayello/Navigator2.JPG
sleeper
Former LOD President
RE: Thinking about trucks...
RE: Thinking about trucks...
Looked at an 02 and an 01 today, i'm going to look at an 00 tomorrow. I'd buy the 02 over the 01, but i'd have to get a slightly larger loan. That shouldn't be a problem though, and i'd probably get a better rate. The 02 looked good and drove good. I may have to take another look at it before i decide. The 00 i'm looking at tomorrow is 4 grand cheaper, but it does have more miles too.
One more question: Do all the 4x4 models have full time 4x4? The 02 and the 01 did, does the 00? The selector had A4WD, 4HI and 4LO. I expected a 2WD mode also. But if i can get 16-17 highway mpg in A4WD, that's fine too.
RE: Thinking about trucks...
Looked at an 02 and an 01 today, i'm going to look at an 00 tomorrow. I'd buy the 02 over the 01, but i'd have to get a slightly larger loan. That shouldn't be a problem though, and i'd probably get a better rate. The 02 looked good and drove good. I may have to take another look at it before i decide. The 00 i'm looking at tomorrow is 4 grand cheaper, but it does have more miles too.
One more question: Do all the 4x4 models have full time 4x4? The 02 and the 01 did, does the 00? The selector had A4WD, 4HI and 4LO. I expected a 2WD mode also. But if i can get 16-17 highway mpg in A4WD, that's fine too.