4R70W from 5.4L swap

C

cragus

Registered
Hey guys,

My car (1993) has 175k, and the tranny is on its way out I think. Starting out it will rev past where it used to shift into 2nd, and you have to let off the gas completely to let it shift. I am thinking it is probably the one way clutch from the reading I have been doing. The Jerry article on tccoa really makes it sound like a 4R70W from a 5.4L truck is the best option. But you have to swap a valve body from a car (preferably 99 and up) to the trans to make it work. I priced a new valve body and they are $250. So, I am trying to decide what to do and wanted to get some opinions. I am also going to be getting a new torque converter so the price for all this is going to be a bit higher than I was hoping if I go this route.

First, are there any sources you know of where I can get a valve body, maybe used but not abused for cheaper? Second, how much better do you think a truck trans would be? Third, would it be bolt my 1993 valve body on there? The future of the car probably holds 4.10's and a driveshaft, chip, maybe a small NOS shot but I doubt anything extreme. On Greenleaf, I am finding transmissions from Mustangs, Grand Marquis, etc. with about 10k for around 8-900 bucks. My main goal is to get something in there that will give good performance and last another 100k. And I do plan to do a jmod to the separator plate.

Here is a rough breakdown:

trans: $900
converter: $800
valve body: $250

What are your thoughts?
 
RE: 4R70W from 5.4L swap

Find a trans from a '98-up 4.6L car. On the '98's, you have to move one or two pins in the connector to make it work, then it just plugs right in. i don't know about the newer ones, but i'm sure they're not that much harder to plug in.

You shouldn't need to get a new valve body to work in a 5.4L trans. At most maybe swap the electric parts from yours into the valve body on the new trans. but i don't know of anybody that's done it so i don't know. i'd say just get a trans from a '98 mark and be done with it.
 
RE: 4R70W from 5.4L swap

The upgraded valve body in 1999-up 4R70W trannies allow for a quicker forward clutch engaugement. I.e. quicker 1st get engagements either putting it into D, or downshifting into 1st @ WOT. Notice the "delay" our cars have when putting them into Reverse or Drive and 'waiting' for the transmission to engage (about a 1 to 2 second delay)? The newer valve body has a larger exhaust port on the forawrd clutch allowing it to engage must faster.

You are on the right track. Just make sure the tranny is out of a 2WD and not a 4WD truck. They can have up to 60 to 90k miles on them, as the 5.4L gear set in the tranny is an excellent piece.

Make sure the tranny is from a 1998 and up truck with the 5.4L. In 1998, they went to the higher friction material that doesn't slip, nor wear no where near as much.

The last note, when using the newer valve body; the connect pins have been "moved". It's the same connector, but some pins will need to be re-wired in the plug. It's an easy fix, but you have to know which ones to change (I think the new valve body requires like 2 additional power if I remember). A wiring diagram from a 1993 and 1999 4R70W will take care of u there (I would, but busy at the moment).



Good luck! I was in the same boat as you. But after adding in the cost of additional clutch patchs, rebuilding the tranny, adding in the extra cooling of extra oil passages, valve body, etc. I just ended up buying one from Dennis Reinhart. He did me VERY well (good deal). Still about $300 or $400 more then going with a new OEM. But jez, the performance you can get out of this unit is awesome.

Dennis was using ArtCarr, but switched to American Transmissions for 3 or 4 buildups and those were pieces of crap. He refunded those people thier money and has switched back to ArtCarr for the newer units (like mine). But there seems to be some issues with some local guys talking crap about Dennis' shop. Hell, Dennis went the extra mile and refunded their money instead of saying "Go to who built ur tranny" or whatever. He took care of them, and took care of me.

And MY GOD, is this the perfect tranny. ArtCarr builds them to Jerry's TCCOA specs: http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/transmission/page1.shtml By the time I added in all of the extra parts, the tranny, and the time it would take me to go through it, I figured a few hundred more and have someone else do it. I had my doubts if they would build it as solid as this article above, but they removed all doubt. Hell, the extra lubrication tube that they added going to the rear housing is proof enough! They went the extra mile.

-Eric
 
RE: 4R70W from 5.4L swap

so with a newer 5.4L tranny, you can use the valve body that comes with the tranny, correct?
 
RE: 4R70W from 5.4L swap

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
ArtCarr builds them to Jerry's TCCOA specs: http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/transmission/page1.shtml By the time I added in all of the extra parts, the tranny, and the time it would take me to go through it, I figured a few hundred more and have someone else do it. I had my doubts if they would build it as solid as this article above, but they removed all doubt. Hell, the extra lubrication tube that they added going to the rear housing is proof enough! They went the extra mile.-Eric
[/div]
No,they do not.After a heated discssion that was eventually deleted-I made note that Dennis's own webpage linked the TCCOA article by Jerry as the specs for the transmissions he sells-he has since had his web page designer remove that link-I wonder why? Maybe proof of fraud in the case of a legal battle?
Jerry's specs are for using only OE Ford parts internally.Art Carr uses Alto Reds,and Raybestos Blueplate clutches.
Jerry specs out the 5.4L EPC solenoid-Art Carr modifies the pressure regulation of a stock solenoid(something Jerry warns against repeatedly in the article).
Jerry specs a stock(not a KEVLAR)OD band.
Jerry specs 8 direct clutch plates and the thicker steels for proper heatsink in the clutch pack to remove the heat generated from application of the clutch.Art Carr uses the Alto "powerpack" direct clutch with paper thin steels in order to cram extra clutches in the direct without machining the clutch drum pistons.
They also do not machine the forward clutch piston to accomodate the extra clutch plates as specified in Jerry's trans article.It is not possible to add extra clutches to the article's specs unless you machine the piston-even then the manufacturing tolerances of the drum may not allow the proper end clearance for an assembled forward clutch,and you'll have to get another drum.
JL
 
RE: 4R70W from 5.4L swap

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
If you use a Truck 4R70W, don't you need a different tail shaft length?
[/div]
No-the only Ford vehicles to use the longer output shaft and extension housing were the police Crown Vics,and Town Cars.
The trucks use the identical same ext housing and output shaft length as the cars.You may need a speedcal if you're using gears other than stock.The Mark uses a 7 tooth speedo drive gear located on the output shaft,and the trucks use an 8 tooth.
JL
 
RE: 4R70W from 5.4L swap

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
so with a newer 5.4L tranny, you can use the valve body that comes with the tranny, correct?
[/div]
Yes,you can-but it's not preferred for a performance application.The valve body regulator springs are different rates for a different application in the truck.
JL
 
RE: 4R70W from 5.4L swap

Thanks for all the good info. I am still deciding what to do. I want my swap to have a good torque converter included, yet want to keep within about $2000 overall for my budget, so I think I may keep my old valvebody and just jmod it. I don't know how much better a 99 would really be. I'm not a drag racer, just looking for some punch on the street, and good dependability. Something that will hold me for the next couple of years of travel.
 
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