89 continental brakes

W

whirlybird

Registered
Just got a 89 Conti from my older sister. The brakes are out or at least power brakes are. The abs and brake light is on--still have a litle pedal but have to ush hard to stop car. She said they took it to ford and they wanted 4,000.00 to fix it!!!! I just can't see that. I am not very experienced with cars like this but the car is sharp and I like it. I have checked the fuses and relays-they are ok. Any help on this? I noticed a high pressure cannister that says do not open--then a booster or pump of some sort and then there is an antilock box in the trunk. Am I too far above my head on this????
 
RE: 89 continental brakes

Hey, Wesley!

I've avoided saying this on LOD because quite a few people have 1st Gen FWD Continentals and I don't like slagging other people's cars, but I feel I have to.

'88 to '94 Continentals were some kind of horrible practical joke played upon the public by Ford. They were prone to breakdowns, in particular blown transmissions and the now-notorious head gasket problems that usually destroyed the engine, and were constantly full of bizarro electrical gremlins throughout all systems.

They were only Taurus/Sables with cosmetic changes, reminiscent of another absolute Lincoln disaster: the Lincoln Versailles ('77-'80), which was a glorified Granada/Monarch with completely unreliable electrical and engine management systems.

All of us at Lincoln dealerships hate working on them because very few things are ever straightforward to diagnose and everything is so expensive to repair- ABS and Air Suspension in particular. It's not uncommon these days to see customers scrap their Continentals because the cost of repairs exceeds the value of the vehicle.

Because of this I see less and less of them over the last few years so info doesn't just POP! into my head as easily as it may for other stuff. I know we had internal relay contact problems and corroded grounds; let me get back to you on that.

Sad to say, but failures of the pump/booster unit are not rare. It's only serviced as a complete assembly and yes, that quote is about right.

Don't jump the gun and run to the wreckers for parts yet. Those Continentals and early SHOs used an unnecessarily complex ABS system that uses a high pressure booster pump to create and maintain fluid pressures well over 1000psi (that's not a misprint) in a hydraulic accumulator. That's the chamber that has the "Do Not Open" warning. If you don't know whether it's bled down or how to do so, don't mess with it!

I am sorry to appear so pessimistic, and I'm very flattered that you asked for my help specifically, but I want you to consider the car's value to you.

I'll get back to you with what I can, but I'm inviting anybody else to chime in at any time.

Jerry(HOTLNC)??
 
RE: 89 continental brakes

Is this the same braking system on a Mark VII? If so, I know of several that have been successfully converted to a more common vacuum boost setup. Also, there is a problematic relay issue. If so, all may not be lost.
 
RE: 89 continental brakes

Driller, you're the best!

Yes, it's not quite the same, but that's one answer I was going to get to if Wesley decided to keep the car and it wasn't just relays or simple wiring: replace the big components with a conventional Taurus vacuum booster/master cylinder. I've seen it done a number of times. It's a fair bit of work, but if the car's worth it...

The same goes with 1stGen FWD air suspension: we always give the customer the options of repairing with Lincoln components (crazy, crazy expensive) or converting to coil suspension. Whiteoak organized a deal with Moog Canada for a really good price on a complete conversion kit they sell.

I've even got my service advisors giving out Eddie's AmericanAirSuspension webpage!

I'm not sorry that I've made my predjudice clear, though; if you fix one thing today, something else goes wrong tomorrow. They're not nice cars.

Ask HOTLNC.
 
RE: 89 continental brakes

Ok you guys are great. This car isn't worth much but it looks really good and it only cost 125.00---I can get that back out of the rims and tires if needed. I have found a new pump for 129.00, but I will hold off like you suggest. We need a good second car so if I can repair this one reasonably I will.
The pump doesn't come on and when I talk to my brother in law he says it used to come on a little when he hit the brakes--then it slowed more and eventually stopped. From what I have read there is a relay somewhere on the firewall that actates the system--I have yet to find that, but havent started pulling stuff apart yet. The way the pump went out I am not sure that could be it, but I will find it and check.
Now the Taurus conversion may be too much work for now-might look into that later if I decide to customize it. I have to finish my other 2 project cars first 1. 79 Triumph TR7 drop top with a Buick 3.8 turbo 2. Mazda B2200 pickup with mopar 360 V8/727 tranny. Number 2 is almost complete just need a little more TLC. #1 is don to body work and expensive Stuff!!!
Everyone ells me you guys are the best so that is why I am here!!!

Thanks a bunch

Wesley
 
RE: 89 continental brakes

I am going to check the relay issue.

Thanks again for your reply. I will let you know what I find.
 
RE: 89 continental brakes

Ok I found the relay that had the vacuum line attached--getting good vacuum and the relay seems to test good. I applied power to the front plug on the pump (has 2 lines one ground one power) I figured the pump should actuate, but all it does is click. Bad pump or is there more to it than that?
 
RE: 89 continental brakes

Did you try a test light on the pump to see if gets power? It sure sounds like you've narrowed it down to the pump. Unfortunately I don't think I have a manual yhat covers that system.
 
RE: 89 continental brakes

I took the power connector loose from the front of the pump and ran power direct--prolly not the best way but all I got was a click noise. I have looked it over and it seems that removing this pump unit is not very simple. I am trying to find some instruction on it now.
 
RE: 89 continental brakes

I can't believe the difficulty I'm having getting diagnosis information and wiring diagrams. Ford/Lincoln's electronic document system only goes back 12 years, and a search of the dust covered older paper manuals in the "don't-throw-it-out-we-may-need-it-someday" room came up empty.

You may want to go to www.alldata.com . It's the most comprehensive source of information I know of. You can get it all; shop manuals, wiring diagrams, TSBs... It's great, but you'll have to pay $25. I think it may be worth it.

I'll give you what I can from memory.

First of all, there's two almost identical test connectors near the firewall, passenger side: one's for the EECIV system, the other (usually red) is for plugging a scan tool into the ABS system and retrieving codes. If you could tell me what codes you're getting, or if the scan tool gets no codes at all (meaning we've got no power to the ABS module), it could narrow things down.

The fact you have no assist means the pump isn't coming on.

Why?

You started at a good place: feeding power and ground to the pump. It should buzz, but it didn't. Not a good sign.

Let's backtrack a bit and see if the car can give the pump what it needs.
Using an ohmmeter, check the black wire at the two-wire pump connector for continuity to ground. I remember having lots of problems with corrosion in that circuit. If you find an open circuit, repair it or fabricate a new ground to the car body.
With a voltmeter between the power wire of the pump connector and ground, pump the brake pedal~ 10 times, start the car, and see if you've got battery voltage going to the pump.
If you have both of these, you need the pump and motor assembly. Big bucks.

There's a pressure switch near the bottom of the accumulator which tells the ABS module that hydraulic pressure is low and the pump must come on. It's just a small thing with two wires going to it. They went bad fairly often. Unplug it, pump the brake pedal ~ 10 times, then start the car and see if the pump comes on. Jump the wiring connector and do the same thing. If the pump comes on either of those ways, the pressure switch is no good. A lot less bucks.

Let's go with this for now and see what happens.

The system may have a number of reasons for not allowing the pump to come on, from a problem with the ABS module power relay or pump motor relay to bad wiring between the module and the hydraulic control unit.

I'd love to give you wiring locations and colours to check further or pinpoint procedures for following up on code retrieval, but anything more at the moment would just be B.S. to make myself look good.
 
RE: 89 continental brakes

Yes, it'll be very similar, but using basic Taurus/Sable parts.

A question is asked part way down the thread about proportioning valves; the Continental has none-- it's a function of ABS. A Taurus/Sable valve would have to be plumbed in.
 
RE: 89 continental brakes

Hey Guys

Sorry I havent replied in awhile. Business has been hectic. I run an online electronics/computer discount store.

There was mention of a code scanner for the abs system--I see the plug but where do I get a scanner. I have located a good abs pump for 89.00. I have looked at the old one and it looks like removing it is gonna be fun. There isnt much room to work in there and so far I havent really seen how it comes out. Since I ran a ground and power to the pump and only hear a click do I assume it is definately the pump?
 
RE: 89 continental brakes

It certainly does sound like the pump. By feeding it directly, you've obviously cut out all relays, modules, sensors and wiring.

This proves the pump doesn't work, but it also leaves the entire rest of the system untested...

In regards to testing, I apologize for providing a piece of incorrect information. To quote Dubya, "I misremembered". The test connector for the ABS is against the rear of the back seat, on the harness going to the ABS module. It is red, though.

Keep in mind, the EECIV, ABS, and Air Suspension test connectors are the same shape; one lead can plug into them all. At the dealership we can use the NGS, NGSplus, or old STAR tester, all of which have some type of switch that lets you select the system you want to test. There are a number of equivalent type testers out there in the aftermarket.

Wesley, you're approaching a very complex system with a very simple plan of attack; I believe you need more information. Get the ABS tested so you can see what it diagnosed as being wrong with itself. You must remember: any scan tool does nothing but allow you to retrieve information. The system control unit, whether it be ABS, EEC, Suspension, Climate Control, etc... does most of the diagnosis.

Think of this as a phone consultation with your doctor:
The doctor (the mechanic)
asks you (the ABS module)
where it hurts (the fault codes)
over the telephone (the scan tool).

If you do get codes, you'll need Alldata, MitchellOnDemand, or similar to define them.

This could give us all enough information to help you more effectively.
 
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