Big 3 are closing gap on their foreign rivals

RE: Big 3 are closing gap on their foreign rivals

I agree with you, Tony 97.5% ~
Only this part, of a sentence,

........is universally regarded as having the best engineering/materials/build quality.

I don't agree with! Well, at least in MY mind, I do not "honor & believe" it. THAT title belongs to Bentley & Rolls Royce - always has....and always will.
 
RE: Big 3 are closing gap on their foreign rivals

I agree with you, Tony 97.5% ~
Only this part, of a sentence,

........is universally regarded as having the best engineering/materials/build quality.

I don't agree with! Well, at least in MY mind, I do not "honor & believe" it. THAT title belongs to Bentley & Rolls Royce - always has....and always will.
Click to expand...


BMW owns Rolls Royce and has made engines for them before that.
 
RE: Big 3 are closing gap on their foreign rivals

yes, they are not easy to judge, so you go with customer ratings. Lexus scored first. when lincoln/Mercury/Ford scored last, im sure that has to count for something.
 
RE: Big 3 are closing gap on their foreign rivals

I agree with you, Tony 97.5% ~
Only this part, of a sentence,

........is universally regarded as having the best engineering/materials/build quality.

I don't agree with! Well, at least in MY mind, I do not "honor & believe" it. THAT title belongs to Bentley & Rolls Royce - always has....and always will.
Click to expand...

Well now that I think about it I really don't agree with it all that much myself :) "Universally" wasn't the best adverb to use there. I was speaking in general, stereotypical terms. The sort of thing a "normal" person (ie - a non-insane car person, unlike most of us here ;) ) would think. The type of person that bases their opinions strictly on what Car and Driver or Consumer Reports tells them.

And as for Bentley and Rolls Royce, well I'll have to take your word for it :) The closest I've ever come to either is being passed on the highway by them, and even that is pretty infrequent in St. Louis (there's a Bentley dealership I pass on the way to work, and every now and then there will be what must be a salesman or the owner driving along in his Arnage).
 
RE: Big 3 are closing gap on their foreign rivals

yes, they are not easy to judge, so you go with customer ratings. Lexus scored first. when lincoln/Mercury/Ford scored last, im sure that has to count for something.
Click to expand...
I see your point, and it does count for something. Although I'd like to know what Lincoln alone scored (so we can compare one luxury brand to another).

Personally, I still think it's a safer bet to find info on a specific dealership first than relying on such general surveys. To me, those seem more useful to the automaker as an indication of how good their dealers are, but it doesn't really help the individual consumer much beyond giving vague odds on the service they might receive from a given dealer. There's a Ford dealer and an LM dealer very close to where I live (under the same owner) that have a great reputation for customer service, so that's where I usually bring all my business when I need something from a dealer (parts or service). I haven't had anything but good experiences with them, so I'm wary of surveys that claim "Brand X" service sucks, because there's always a counterexample to prove that statement wrong.
 
RE: Big 3 are closing gap on their foreign rivals

Dealer service is somewhat determined by the brand of car, and Ford seems hell-bent on destroying any customer service they have. Their techs are filing a class-action suit against Ford because of the arbitrary lowering of labor hours for warranty repairs. Some Ford certified dealer technicians are actually on food stamps, they're getting raped so hard. Doesn't bode well for customer service, if the tech is only getting paid for a half hour to fix something that really takes 3 hours. He's going to halfass it and be pissed off, and probably not be too polite to the customer.
 
RE: Big 3 are closing gap on their foreign rivals

Sleeper - on the Tech/Hours issue - you know the score here...

As long as warranties are a result of Marketing decisions (warranties as selling point) - and are nearly "life of vehicle" - Ford (and others) are charged with paying for a huge percentage of the service that a dealership performs.

So the classic struggle is - Ford wants to pay as little as possible - and the dealership wants to enjoy "traditional" service payments. Ford steps up and reduces a service from 4 hours (traditional charge) to 1 hour (impossible) and the dealership has a staff that takes 3 hours (probably the "real" time it always took).

As this plays out - the customer is going to see some really "interesting" service on their vehcle - especially during the warranty period. And of course the unions jumped on the bandwagon and want to unionize all the techs so they have the clout to fit both Ford and the dealer.
 
RE: Big 3 are closing gap on their foreign rivals

Very true dave, but how many customers are going to go elsewhere because of this "interesting" service?

The carmakers don't really seem to understand. They say quality is Job 1, then they turn around and force their suppliers to sell them parts cheaper. They say customer service is important, then they won't pay their dealers and techs what they deserve.

I read somewhere how much certain dealers make per vehicle. Lets just say i'd rather own a Saturn dealer than a Lincoln dealer. Now, if Saturn can sell those POS plastic boxes, based solely on customer service, imagine what lincoln could do if it stepped it up a notch in the areas where it really counts?

If they want to extend their warranties to sell cars, without incurring extra repair costs, then build better quality cars! This can usually be accomplished by telling the supplier what you want and what kind of quality you expect, then letting them set the price, rather than telling them the price, and letting them determine quality.
 
RE: Big 3 are closing gap on their foreign rivals

You'll be glad to know that for 2004 Lincoln has raised their prices over $1,000 from 2003 prices, and has cut the car's warrentee down to 3/36 (or 3 years & 36,000 miles) from 2003s 4/50 ! < progress > :(
 
RE: Big 3 are closing gap on their foreign rivals

No car company is perfect, even BMW. Anything that can be made can be made poorly. I just don't like the prevailing attitude that ALL American cars are ALL low-quality crap and ALL German cars are ALL 100% perfect in every imaginable respect. Because it just ain't true.
Click to expand...

I never said their 100% the best, there are many germen cars, and some don’t even make it to our shores. When people say germen is quality, they basically mean Mercedes and BMW, because they are truly germen symbols. Heck, Mercedes made the first automobile (come on sandy, give them a little credit here), so they are very old and BOLD symbols. But when you think American car, you think Chevy and Ford. So it’s mostly how you see it. And if you really want to think about it, when you say Japanese, you automatically think Mitsubishi, or Camry/Corolla econo boxes.

But I bet if I offered anyone on the board to trade for a CL55 AMG, they would do it in heart beat. You are right, those cars are $100K+ cars, but quality is their middle name, from the most comfortable seats you will ever set your ass on, to the best engineered suspension.

And what do domestic companies have to compete with in that sector? Cady maybe, who’s making FWD up the ass, and Lincoln, well, we all know how cheap they are and how much they try to save money in their cars.

now, if we were talking about the most horsepower for the buck, im sure Germens wouldnt win there, but hey, everyone has something they are good at.

I’m not trying to be the guy who loves to go on the wrong side of the street, but it’s very well known that Mercedes and BMW make the best cars in GENERAL.
 
RE: Big 3 are closing gap on their foreign rivals

Don't I know what you're saying Sleeper!

There isn't a supplier in Detroit that can live well on the margins allowed at present.

It's like inviting one person in a pack of hungry people to a meal - and the chef just says - "you guys figure out who comes to the table".

You know a fight is going to happen - and the one that's the meanest (not the best) is coming to dinner.

And then the meal is only enough to keep that person alive 'till the next fight - they don't get stronger - or smarter - just meaner...

Each invitation to a meal weakens the whole pack - until the quality of ANY person coming to the table is pitiful - and the "chef" keeps saying - "If you're not in better shape the next time I invite you to dinner - there will be less on the plate..."

And on it goes...

Trust me EVERYBODY here in Detroit cares about the health of the domestic car industry - and WANTS to build the best cars in the world.
 
RE: Big 3 are closing gap on their foreign rivals

When people say germen is quality, they basically mean Mercedes and BMW, because they are truly germen symbols.

Agreed, very much so.

But I bet if I offered anyone on the board to trade for a CL55 AMG, they would do it in heart beat.

Heh, only if you threw in insurance payments and maintenance costs, too ;)

You are right, those cars are $100K+ cars, but quality is their middle name, from the most comfortable seats you will ever set your ass on, to the best engineered suspension.

I've heard too many bad things to agree that quality is their middle name, so I think that's the crux of our disagreement. I've also sat in a few Beamers and Mercedes, and none were as comfy as my Mark. As for the suspension, I haven't driven any German cars so I can't comment but the new LS is getting rave reviews in the media. Even saying it outperforms the 540i in the slalom (yeah, I know, wait for the next gen 5-series...).

And what do domestic companies have to compete with in that sector? Cady maybe, who’s making FWD up the ass, and Lincoln, well, we all know how cheap they are and how much they try to save money in their cars.

Caddy is actually starting to make some pretty nifty cars. You seen the new V-series? Styling-wise it could be better, but 400hp, RWD, and a 6-speed make up for it. I only wish Lincoln would do something cool like that.

I’m not trying to be the guy who loves to go on the wrong side of the street, but it’s very well known that Mercedes and BMW make the best cars in GENERAL.

I'm not trying to bag on you for buying foreign, it's your money in the end and you'll do what you want with it. But I'm still not convinced Mercedes and BMW make the "best" cars, even in general.
 
RE: Big 3 are closing gap on their foreign rivals

You'll be glad to know that for 2004 Lincoln has raised their prices over $1,000 from 2003 prices, and has cut the car's warrentee down to 3/36 (or 3 years & 36,000 miles) from 2003s 4/50 ! < progress > :(
Click to expand...

Well that stinks. I was really hoping my next car would be another Lincoln, and this is not a move in the direction to make that happen :(
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top