Considering swapping a 93-95 Mark VIII drivetrain into a Volvo 240DL

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KyleH

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Hi everyone. Most of you probably wont remember me, but I built a Paxton Novi 1000 supercharged Lincoln Mark VIII when I was 17. I eventually sold it and got a WRX. I still have my WRX. I now have a manual machine shop in my garage, 2 years of a BSME and a few years experience as a CNC machinist. I say this to answer the question that yes I can complete this.

Anyway I may be inheriting a Volvo 240DL.

I would like to do something similar to this:
http://forums.turbobricks.com/showthread.php?t=178398

Only to save on cost I'd like to use the 4R70W and hopefully swap in the Mark VIII IRS of course adding a posi and a set of acceleration friendlier gears. I'd be making my own control arms obviously as I'd like to go to coilovers and use the factory shock tower location if possible.

Only problem is I've forgotten a lot about Mark VIIIs that I'd need to consider.
Here it goes:
1) I seem to remember the 93-94 4R70W having a bad 1-2 accumulator. Am I right in thinking that I can diagnose this by it feeling like it is dropping into gear? If it will shift at all is it probably in good enough shape to be rebuilt easily?

If the accumulator goes bad, what is the potential damage to the trans? I am planning on building one up anyway, I really just want it to get to my house.

2) 95 was the last year of no PATS, correct? I'd like to be able to get the car running without flashing the ECU.

3) What sensors that aren't part of the EEC-Vare going to throw me for a loop, cause CELs etc?

4) Who is the popular supplier for high performance master kits for the trans?

5) What wiring issues should I worry about?

6) What were the common drive train problems of the 93-95s?

Thanks for the help.
 
Without an electrical engineering back round the marriage of the two wiring systems should prove to be formidable.
 
I blew one trans. Live and learn....and get a WRX. Open downpipe and a $200 tuning cable with open source software and I'm in the 13s.

I have repaired CNC mills and lathes and did a one year engineering internship at a milspec electrical tool company. I can wire things. That said I am looking to use as much from the Mark VIII as possible. The electrical system in volvos of that era are garbage and that car already shows signs of pretty typical electrical gremlins for it. (Randomly locking power locks for example)

Which brings me back to my questions that you guys were so helpful with. ;)

I am going to remove basically the whole EFI setup from the volvo including the wiring. Does the 93-95 harness for the Mark VIII's EFI lead to any sensors that are not on the motor or trans? Air ride height sensors for example, or are those separate and I can get away with pulling out the Mark VIII EFI pretty cleanly? Any sensors nnot on the motor or trans that would prevent the car from firing up (like PATS on the later models)
 
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Pats was not present on Gen 1 Marks. The suspension has it's own computer with inputs for speed and door closer. You definitely need to have a BOO switch to move the shift lever, 02 sensors, VRCM from donor (they are year specific), fuel pump interface. I am sure there are some items I have overlooked.
 
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KyleH said:
I blew one trans. Live and learn....and get a WRX. Open downpipe and a $200 tuning cable with open source software and I'm in the 13s.

I have repaired CNC mills and lathes and did a one year engineering internship at a milspec electrical tool company. I can wire things. That said I am looking to use as much from the Mark VIII as possible. The electrical system in volvos of that era are garbage and that car already shows signs of pretty typical electrical gremlins for it. (Randomly locking power locks for example)

Which brings me back to my questions that you guys were so helpful with. ;)

I am going to remove basically the whole EFI setup from the volvo including the wiring. Does the 93-95 harness for the Mark VIII's EFI lead to any sensors that are not on the motor or trans? Air ride height sensors for example, or are those separate and I can get away with pulling out the Mark VIII EFI pretty cleanly? Any sensors nnot on the motor or trans that would prevent the car from firing up (like PATS on the later models)
Click to expand...

The most "remote" sensor with direct connection to the PCM would be the O2's.

This would be much harder with OBD2's.
 
KyleH said:
I blew one trans. Live and learn....and get a WRX. Open downpipe and a $200 tuning cable with open source software and I'm in the 13s.
Click to expand...

Haha I know, just one. You DID pay 5 times more for that WRX though so you can't compare.

The engine harness is pretty much self contained. You can drop the engine by removing the block harness connectors and leave it on the engine. The hard part for you is going to be the instrument cluster and wiring behind the dash. All the HVAC controls, radio, etc is all taped to the PCM harness once it goes into the firewall. We can definitely set you up with harness wiring diagrams here though so you could always run your own wires for some autometers.
 
J said:
Haha I know, just one. You DID pay 5 times more for that WRX though so you can't compare.

The engine harness is pretty much self contained. You can drop the engine by removing the block harness connectors and leave it on the engine. The hard part for you is going to be the instrument cluster and wiring behind the dash. All the HVAC controls, radio, etc is all taped to the PCM harness once it goes into the firewall. We can definitely set you up with harness wiring diagrams here though so you could always run your own wires for some autometers.
Click to expand...

I sold my Mark VIII for $4000 without the blower and sold that whole setup for around $2000. The WRX was $7300. I recall the dash on Mark VIIIs being a bitch to pull apart. Hopefully I can remove most of those wires without doing that. Ill be pulling out the seats and will most likely make a couch out of them if they're in good shape so there should be plenty of room to work in there. I am going to pull out the Volvo cluster but retain the stock dash if I can. The volvo cluster is basically a clock, a speedo, and an oil pressure light. If I wanna get really cool with it Ill use a microcontroller to datalog certain stuff off the ECU and put it to an LCD screen. Ill probably get lazy though and just hook up autometer gauges.

driller said:
The most "remote" sensor with direct connection to the PCM would be the O2's.

This would be much harder with OBD2's.
Click to expand...

Glad to hear that. Obviously I am going to use the Mark VIII O2s and maybe a wideband if I decide to go turbo/blown again which is definitely on the table.

Roadboss said:
Pats was not present on Gen 1 Marks. The suspension has it's own computer with inputs for speed and door closer. You definitely need to have a BOO switch to move the shift lever, 02 sensors, VRCM from donor (they are year specific), fuel pump interface. I am sure there are some items I have overlooked.
Click to expand...

PATS being absent is why I picked those years, though I thought 96s had it. Memory fading I guess. BOO switch is the brake override? I would definitely use the factory brake switch and then probably disable the neutral safety switch unless its real easy to use.

From what I recall, the VRCM was the fan control? Again I was planning on using the Mark VIII fan because it is awesome so I'd carry that over. May have to shorten it a date but no biggie there. The EEC computer controls the VRCM, correct?
 
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Wow way simpler, though less reliable, way to do what I wanted with the datalogging to an LCD. Take the screen off a mini monitor or just use a laptop body. Hide it away somewhere accessible. Add a solid state drive. Use something like this http://www.moates.net/quarterhorse-for-fords-p-199.html?cPath=31 and an LCD screen mounted in the dash.

I'd probably keep one or two basic gauges in the car anyway as well as a GPS for backup for speed in case the laptop fails, but thats a very easy and cheap way to do this. Going off memory the volvo should be able to fit a 7" LCD at a slight tilt with few issues.
 
You can easily use a HD relay and a programmable controller for the cooling fan and not need the VCRM. Check out Dakota Digital. They piggyback off the stock temp sensor.
 
driller said:
You can easily use a HD relay and a programmable controller for the cooling fan and not need the VCRM. Check out Dakota Digital. They piggyback off the stock temp sensor.
Click to expand...

Looks like I can pick up one for about $30. Thanks for the tip. I will definitely take that over the frankly POS VCRM.

A few drivetrain questions remain:
1) I seem to remember the 93-94 4R70W having a bad 1-2 accumulator. Am I right in thinking that I can diagnose this by it feeling like it is dropping into gear? If it will shift at all is it probably in good enough shape to be rebuilt easily?

If the accumulator goes bad, what is the potential damage to the trans? I am planning on building one up anyway, I really just want it to get to my house.

4) Who is the popular supplier for high performance master kits for the trans?

I am looking to do a full rebuild myself with high performance bands and steels and hopefully the factory planetaries and hard parts.

6) What were the common drive train problems of the 93-95s? (Other than the accumulator)

EDIT: New question:

I know my 98 had an electronic lockup ability. Do 93-95 converters have this as well?
 
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If you're gonna go through the trouble of a rebuild, you might as well just find a 98+ trans for cheap. It'll have all the upgraded parts without the hassle of a rebuild. :)

As far as the accumulator, it'll have sloppy shifts. It won't really hurt much.
 
That's probably a great idea. I remember that the 98 trans was better but I forgot how much was upgraded through the years. Any idea if the 98 Mark VIII trans has the mechanical diode? I know it was put in in mustangs/crown vics for 98 or 99 but I don't know if Mark VIIIs got it. If it has a black connector on the wiring harness then it does.

I know the later Mustangs' 4R70W also have an input shaft that doesn't have an undercut so it's stronger. Would there be any problem in using a 2000+ truck/crown vic/etc. trans? (Ill use the 93-95 MLPS)
 
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In the 1st gen? Did you just have to switch the MLPS and rewire the harness?

I'd bet one of my classy muddin' lovin' friends has a 2000+ 4R70W that they have removed and/or eaten up.
 
Nope....can't get enough traction to try.

Raced a brand new Impressa WRX. I had a full tank of gas and 3 people in my car. WRX had chick driver (she was good though) and unknown gas. She got spanked. Then she said, "If you're gonna drive it like you stole it, you gotta keep it clean." And then sped off, lmao.

Raced as modded brand new vette the other day too, rolling (50 mph) run and spanked it too. He looked at me funny.
 
KyleH said:
Any idea if the 98 Mark VIII trans has the mechanical diode? I know it was put in in mustangs/crown vics for 98 or 99 but I don't know if Mark VIIIs got it. If it has a black connector on the wiring harness then it does.

I know the later Mustangs' 4R70W also have an input shaft that doesn't have an undercut so it's stronger. Would there be any problem in using a 2000+ truck/crown vic/etc. trans? (Ill use the 93-95 MLPS)
Click to expand...

This article may interest you. And this is by the Jerry W. himself.

http://www.tccoa.com/articles/tranny/transmission/index.shtml
 
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