Ran the car on the dyno the other day. I have mixed revues about the numbers. As listed in my profile, I have LT headers, 2 1/2" pipes all the way back on a single X, Dennis chip, 160 degree thermostat, 80 mm MAF, adjustable FPR. Bone stock, I ran 210 hp at best and 240 lb/ft of torque. Now I ran with all mods and best hp was 235 hp and 250 lb/ft of torque. Is this par with the upgrades invested or am I missing something? I ran a bit rich from the smell, but I suppose it should smell fat when you stomp open the IMRC's on this beast. I'd rather run fat then lean and burn a hole in a piston. The guys there said they can tune with a wideband O2 sensor, but at the moment I couldn't afford it. We're at 2200 ft above Sea Level. But I know they factor all this in. Any inputs? Would boosting the FPR a bit help any? I know the chip was doing it's job because based on the printout, my torque jumped fast in a very short period. I still had torque gains even at the top end of second gear. I was impressed, but felt I should have been at least 10 hp more. By the way, the Magnaflows are bitchin'! I was behind the car and almost had to plug my ears when it opened up past 5000 RPMs. }>
Dyno run....don't know what to think.
- Thread starter jjmoriset
- Start date
calviroman
Registered
RE: Dyno run....don't know what to think.
Its hard to compare 2 dyno runs. Were both runs in 3rd gear? What was the barometric pressure/temp? Same dyno + operator? Are the numbers corrected at all?
Do you have the dyno sheet with the wideband O2 readings -vs- rpm? How rich is the car running?
Scanning and posting both sheets would help out.
Its hard to compare 2 dyno runs. Were both runs in 3rd gear? What was the barometric pressure/temp? Same dyno + operator? Are the numbers corrected at all?
Do you have the dyno sheet with the wideband O2 readings -vs- rpm? How rich is the car running?
Scanning and posting both sheets would help out.
U S Marine
Registered
RE: Dyno run....don't know what to think.
I'm new at upgrading the Mark VIII, however, I have a dyno chart on my link from my '96 with less mods than you have. It would be of value to post your dyno run. I got some good feed back on mine. I only have a 3" single into 2 2.5" through Magnaflows, a 180 T-Stat and the Reinhart chip. I would think you should have more power than what you are posting. Again, only my in-experienced input here.
I'm new at upgrading the Mark VIII, however, I have a dyno chart on my link from my '96 with less mods than you have. It would be of value to post your dyno run. I got some good feed back on mine. I only have a 3" single into 2 2.5" through Magnaflows, a 180 T-Stat and the Reinhart chip. I would think you should have more power than what you are posting. Again, only my in-experienced input here.
RE: Dyno run....don't know what to think.
Both runs a year apart. Same time of year. Baro this year was probably lower because of the rain. I didn't do a wideband test. I wrote I couldn't afford it at the moment. Both runs were in 2nd gear. OD off and third locked out. No downshift to 1st. Just straight through 2nd gear only. I can scan but don't know how to post. Any help would be appreciated.
Both runs a year apart. Same time of year. Baro this year was probably lower because of the rain. I didn't do a wideband test. I wrote I couldn't afford it at the moment. Both runs were in 2nd gear. OD off and third locked out. No downshift to 1st. Just straight through 2nd gear only. I can scan but don't know how to post. Any help would be appreciated.
RE: Dyno run....don't know what to think.
I looked at your dyno sheet link and your numbers are very close to mine. So why would you think I should've run better? The MAF really won't make any improvements to HP unless I'm doing forced induction or something. So the only real power adders are the headers, pipes and chip Dennis got me. I have the sheets scanned to my hard drive. I just need help getting them posted. Why are your lines so jumpy? Mine are relatively smooth compared to your printout.
I looked at your dyno sheet link and your numbers are very close to mine. So why would you think I should've run better? The MAF really won't make any improvements to HP unless I'm doing forced induction or something. So the only real power adders are the headers, pipes and chip Dennis got me. I have the sheets scanned to my hard drive. I just need help getting them posted. Why are your lines so jumpy? Mine are relatively smooth compared to your printout.
DOHC MARK VIII
Registered
RE: Dyno run....don't know what to think.
Both runs a year apart. Same time of year. Baro this year was probably lower because of the rain. I didn't do a wideband test. I wrote I couldn't afford it at the moment. Both runs were in 2nd gear. OD off and third locked out. No downshift to 1st. Just straight through 2nd gear only. I can scan but don't know how to post. Any help would be appreciated.
[/quote]
O.K., I was wondering how you ran it in drive with Dennis's chip. With mine you can't lock out o/d and it shifts into o/d too early at around 115 mph with his chip. By running it in second I think you're losing around 7% verses third gear direct. That being the case you should pick up another 15+ hp if it could be ran in third gear (1:1). Then you would have 250-ish hp which is not too bad at all.
** Bill **
1995 LSC-R'ed w/Recaro's and Cobra R's
Veteran of Carlisle 2000/01/02/03
[a href=//cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=258112]For Pic's and Mods click here[/a]
...If you can read this, thank a teacher...If it's in English, thank a veteran....
Both runs a year apart. Same time of year. Baro this year was probably lower because of the rain. I didn't do a wideband test. I wrote I couldn't afford it at the moment. Both runs were in 2nd gear. OD off and third locked out. No downshift to 1st. Just straight through 2nd gear only. I can scan but don't know how to post. Any help would be appreciated.
[/quote]
O.K., I was wondering how you ran it in drive with Dennis's chip. With mine you can't lock out o/d and it shifts into o/d too early at around 115 mph with his chip. By running it in second I think you're losing around 7% verses third gear direct. That being the case you should pick up another 15+ hp if it could be ran in third gear (1:1). Then you would have 250-ish hp which is not too bad at all.
** Bill **
1995 LSC-R'ed w/Recaro's and Cobra R's
Veteran of Carlisle 2000/01/02/03
[a href=//cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=258112]For Pic's and Mods click here[/a]
...If you can read this, thank a teacher...If it's in English, thank a veteran....
U S Marine
Registered
RE: Dyno run....don't know what to think.
I don't know why they are so jumpy. I thought they should be smoother as well. As stated in another post, it was the first time at the dyno for me, so I didn't really know what to look for. Except for the basics..ie HP, TQ and A/F. I just figured you should have more because of all the hype I hear about LT headers and true dual exhaust. Like I said though, I'm in-experienced with these cars and the mods. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it! LOL!! Bill is correct though on the running in 3rd gear (1:1) Why can't you lock out OD? Mine ran in 3rd up to 151 MPH according to the other sheet I had them print for me. It sure is cool to see the needle swing past the 140 mark effortlessly!
I don't know why they are so jumpy. I thought they should be smoother as well. As stated in another post, it was the first time at the dyno for me, so I didn't really know what to look for. Except for the basics..ie HP, TQ and A/F. I just figured you should have more because of all the hype I hear about LT headers and true dual exhaust. Like I said though, I'm in-experienced with these cars and the mods. Thats my story and I'm sticking to it! LOL!! Bill is correct though on the running in 3rd gear (1:1) Why can't you lock out OD? Mine ran in 3rd up to 151 MPH according to the other sheet I had them print for me. It sure is cool to see the needle swing past the 140 mark effortlessly!
DOHC MARK VIII
Registered
RE: Dyno run....don't know what to think.
Dennis has his chips programmed to shift into O/D at a lower rpm to save the transmission. They say the transmission won't last long with full throttle upshifts into O/D at wide open throttle hence the upshift into "4th" at around 115 mph (depending on your gears). Long ago when my only mod was a Superchip it would allow you to run up to 155 mph in third. I dynoed my mark with that and got like 228 hp. When it hit the 155 mph limiter on the dyno, it backfired and scared the hell out of everybody standing around it. :7
** Bill **
1995 LSC-R'ed w/Recaro's and Cobra R's
Veteran of Carlisle 2000/01/02/03
[a href=//cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=258112]For Pic's and Mods click here[/a]
...If you can read this, thank a teacher...If it's in English, thank a veteran....
Dennis has his chips programmed to shift into O/D at a lower rpm to save the transmission. They say the transmission won't last long with full throttle upshifts into O/D at wide open throttle hence the upshift into "4th" at around 115 mph (depending on your gears). Long ago when my only mod was a Superchip it would allow you to run up to 155 mph in third. I dynoed my mark with that and got like 228 hp. When it hit the 155 mph limiter on the dyno, it backfired and scared the hell out of everybody standing around it. :7
** Bill **
1995 LSC-R'ed w/Recaro's and Cobra R's
Veteran of Carlisle 2000/01/02/03
[a href=//cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=258112]For Pic's and Mods click here[/a]
...If you can read this, thank a teacher...If it's in English, thank a veteran....
U S Marine
Registered
RE: Dyno run....don't know what to think.
Isn't the "Dennis" chip the same as the Reinhart chip? (Dennis Reinhart) I thought they were the same. I have a Reinhart chip, so if they are one in the same then he must have forgotten that little program in my chip.
Isn't the "Dennis" chip the same as the Reinhart chip? (Dennis Reinhart) I thought they were the same. I have a Reinhart chip, so if they are one in the same then he must have forgotten that little program in my chip.
DOHC MARK VIII
Registered
RE: Dyno run....don't know what to think.
Yes, it is. Supposedly you can program it for a higher rpm shift point but I just got the "standard" program and didn't ask for anything different. I've had the chip for a few years now and he just reprogramed my old Superchip. If you're running it at the track with stock gears, it doesn't matter. However, when it shifts into O/D at 115 mph (even with O/D locked out)it basically falls flat on it's face, but it will continue to climb past 155 mph if you've got about 20 miles of clear open road ahead of you (LOL).
** Bill **
1995 LSC-R'ed w/Recaro's and Cobra R's
Veteran of Carlisle 2000/01/02/03
[a href=//cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=258112]For Pic's and Mods click here[/a]
...If you can read this, thank a teacher...If it's in English, thank a veteran....
Yes, it is. Supposedly you can program it for a higher rpm shift point but I just got the "standard" program and didn't ask for anything different. I've had the chip for a few years now and he just reprogramed my old Superchip. If you're running it at the track with stock gears, it doesn't matter. However, when it shifts into O/D at 115 mph (even with O/D locked out)it basically falls flat on it's face, but it will continue to climb past 155 mph if you've got about 20 miles of clear open road ahead of you (LOL).
** Bill **
1995 LSC-R'ed w/Recaro's and Cobra R's
Veteran of Carlisle 2000/01/02/03
[a href=//cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=258112]For Pic's and Mods click here[/a]
...If you can read this, thank a teacher...If it's in English, thank a veteran....
U S Marine
Registered
RE: Dyno run....don't know what to think.
it will continue to climb past 155 mph if you've got about 20 miles of clear open road ahead of you (LOL).
LOL! I'd like that!!
RE: Dyno run....don't know what to think.
Somehow I'm missing your question here. I ran it in "2" on the shift tree. Not in the "D". That keeps it from going in to third. But if what you're saying is I should've run it in third due to 1:1 ratio on the gears , then I understand. I forgot which one was the 1:1 ratio, so I ran in second for the fastest climb. I know I saw the needle on 90 mph in second with little effort. But it was BAD-ASS loud! }> So if I was in third instead of second, I could've had a better hp number? So I don't feel so bad after all. I just know this car is very awake compared to stock.
Somehow I'm missing your question here. I ran it in "2" on the shift tree. Not in the "D". That keeps it from going in to third. But if what you're saying is I should've run it in third due to 1:1 ratio on the gears , then I understand. I forgot which one was the 1:1 ratio, so I ran in second for the fastest climb. I know I saw the needle on 90 mph in second with little effort. But it was BAD-ASS loud! }> So if I was in third instead of second, I could've had a better hp number? So I don't feel so bad after all. I just know this car is very awake compared to stock.
M
MonsterMark
Guest
RE: Dyno run....don't know what to think.
I think Bill's numbers are dead on. You would be making around 250 rwhp with your setup running it in third.
Bryan
MonsterMark
I think Bill's numbers are dead on. You would be making around 250 rwhp with your setup running it in third.
Bryan
MonsterMark
U S Marine
Registered
RE: Dyno run....don't know what to think.
Yes, run it in "D" or 3rd gear (1:1). I'm sure it is very awake compared to stock. I want LT headers for my car and I'm hoping for the 25-30 RWHP gains that some people here are posting. I would recommend getting a good dyno tune also. I can't remember if you stated you had done that or not. How was your fuel curve? If you looked at mine, many people thought it was/is an outstanding curve. Your also right on the sound through those Magnaflows. Awesome!
Yes, run it in "D" or 3rd gear (1:1). I'm sure it is very awake compared to stock. I want LT headers for my car and I'm hoping for the 25-30 RWHP gains that some people here are posting. I would recommend getting a good dyno tune also. I can't remember if you stated you had done that or not. How was your fuel curve? If you looked at mine, many people thought it was/is an outstanding curve. Your also right on the sound through those Magnaflows. Awesome!
eduncan911
Registered
RE: Dyno run....don't know what to think.
Kind of off topic, but just wanted to mention something. My Mark VIII dyno'd 216rwhp with 252rwtq. 100% bone stock right down to the paper filter. Just the Lincoln Navigator cams I swapped in when I swapped motors (bought the car with a blown engine). Seeing you guys torque curve, makes me feel good about the torque curve of the Navi cams (comes in a little later, but overall holds much higher then stock cams).
I really wanted to mention my disappointment with the power loss through the tranny. This motor is essetially (sp ck) the same motor as the Cobra. Just a different intake (less HP for peak RPMs) going through an auto tranny.
My 1996 Cobra, 100% bone stock (yes I was lucky to find it stock) dyno'd, on the same dyno with the same temp, at 252rwhp and 255rwtq at the stock 20k miles on the odometer. I have my stock 96 intake sitting in the garage. May be a swap soon.
Just wanted to let you know guys know about my Cobra vs. Mark VIII stock for stock (40rwhp more, in a lighter car). And also how the Navigator cams really upped the torque near you guys with mods.
Eric
Kind of off topic, but just wanted to mention something. My Mark VIII dyno'd 216rwhp with 252rwtq. 100% bone stock right down to the paper filter. Just the Lincoln Navigator cams I swapped in when I swapped motors (bought the car with a blown engine). Seeing you guys torque curve, makes me feel good about the torque curve of the Navi cams (comes in a little later, but overall holds much higher then stock cams).
I really wanted to mention my disappointment with the power loss through the tranny. This motor is essetially (sp ck) the same motor as the Cobra. Just a different intake (less HP for peak RPMs) going through an auto tranny.
My 1996 Cobra, 100% bone stock (yes I was lucky to find it stock) dyno'd, on the same dyno with the same temp, at 252rwhp and 255rwtq at the stock 20k miles on the odometer. I have my stock 96 intake sitting in the garage.
May be a swap soon.Just wanted to let you know guys know about my Cobra vs. Mark VIII stock for stock (40rwhp more, in a lighter car). And also how the Navigator cams really upped the torque near you guys with mods.
Eric
RE: Dyno run....don't know what to think.
well here I go again. Yes this 4r70w and irs sucks power big time when compared to stock or modified cobras. Stock cobras 250 hp 250 torque easy as above. We gotta work for power. The more power at the flywheel we make the more gets eaten up through the drivetrain. I have been really interested in throwing in some cams but it seems to me the biggest bang for the buck would be to drop in a manual trans. Everyone keeps saying what a knuckle buster it would be. Who cares once it is done and someone provides documentation of the parts and fabbing involved the rest should be easy. I netted 260 hp and 260 torque those #s on a cobra drivetrain should have easily been 30 hp above my #s my opinion. Now I am off topic again and up on top of my soap beer box. My next wacked out topic will be the insane ammount of heat transferred from the pcv valve to the intake. I have egr delete. I noticed today viewing my oil seperator after my pcv valve that is working collecting oil. There is a tremendous quantity of heat being tranferred to my intake. from my research get this now the pimary need to have a pcv valve is to evacuate moisture from the crankcase. I have ran breathers intermittennly And have seen condesation coming from them on colder days. I have witnessed on cold days my pcv oil seperator become cloudy with condesation. I am now proposing to run a pcv and then route it through a cooler of some type trans cooler etc. . If anyone would like to correct my thoughts evaluating my heat transfer assumptions simply connect a copper tube in the path of the pcv with the hood open car warmed up can you feel the heat ? after your motor is fully warmed up? Well lets make this ME even a bigger fool. Has anyone ever seen someone icing the intake? 99.0 % of motor configurations are ass backwards. take the heat from the radiator and fan and blow it back onto the motor that you are trying to cool?
well here I go again. Yes this 4r70w and irs sucks power big time when compared to stock or modified cobras. Stock cobras 250 hp 250 torque easy as above. We gotta work for power. The more power at the flywheel we make the more gets eaten up through the drivetrain. I have been really interested in throwing in some cams but it seems to me the biggest bang for the buck would be to drop in a manual trans. Everyone keeps saying what a knuckle buster it would be. Who cares once it is done and someone provides documentation of the parts and fabbing involved the rest should be easy. I netted 260 hp and 260 torque those #s on a cobra drivetrain should have easily been 30 hp above my #s my opinion. Now I am off topic again and up on top of my soap beer box. My next wacked out topic will be the insane ammount of heat transferred from the pcv valve to the intake. I have egr delete. I noticed today viewing my oil seperator after my pcv valve that is working collecting oil. There is a tremendous quantity of heat being tranferred to my intake. from my research get this now the pimary need to have a pcv valve is to evacuate moisture from the crankcase. I have ran breathers intermittennly And have seen condesation coming from them on colder days. I have witnessed on cold days my pcv oil seperator become cloudy with condesation. I am now proposing to run a pcv and then route it through a cooler of some type trans cooler etc. . If anyone would like to correct my thoughts evaluating my heat transfer assumptions simply connect a copper tube in the path of the pcv with the hood open car warmed up can you feel the heat ? after your motor is fully warmed up? Well lets make this ME even a bigger fool. Has anyone ever seen someone icing the intake? 99.0 % of motor configurations are ass backwards. take the heat from the radiator and fan and blow it back onto the motor that you are trying to cool?
RE: Dyno run....don't know what to think.
My completely stock dyno run. I think your missing power. I think its in the MAF
http://www.nitrouscrazy.com/assets/images/DSC00785_copy.jpg
My completely stock dyno run. I think your missing power. I think its in the MAF
http://www.nitrouscrazy.com/assets/images/DSC00785_copy.jpg