Front-end woes

M

M Darrah

Registered
My car's in the Lincoln dealership right now, with some front-end problems.

They told me I need the following:

1. Lower ball joints (which means lower control arms)
2. A-B bushings (What the heck are those?)
3. Strut Rod to frame bushings.

That last one has me stumped. They told me that they're something that is spot welded to the frame, and that mine are starting to rust and come loose.

Total estimate for this is almost $1500! I DO NOT intend to pay that much, so don't worry. I've got an extended warranty, and assuming they pay for it, I'm only out $100. At least I'll finally get my money's worth from the bastards.

But I have the sneaking feeling that they'll try to screw me again. So...

My question is:

How easy/hard are these items to replace myself? The spot-welded thing is not something I'm prepared to do myself for sure.
 
RE: Front-end woes

I have no idea what they are talking about ... spot welded to the frame. The strut rod bushings are rubber bushings with sleeves and washers. It lends fore/aft support to the front wheel suspension. I had both replaced and a 4 wheel alignment done for like $200.

Someone else will have to tell us the A-B bushings are. The lower control arms are probably next for me as well. I get a periodic squeaking in the front with no loose joints. It's embarassing to have a Lincoln squeaking. ;(
 
RE: Front-end woes

Just picked it up a few minutes ago. No work done yet.

The parts they're talking about being spot welded are cups that the strut rod bushings sit in. I guess they rust and become loose. Funny I've never heard about this one from anyone else, considering mine's a '98.

Here's the breakdown:

L-R lower control arms: 2 X $222.95
L-R A + B Bushings: $51
6 hours labor for above at $95/hr

Strut rod bushings: $140
2 hours @ $95/hr
Weld cups to frame: 1 hour @ $95/hr

Total: $1492

4-wheel alignment: $175

GRAND TOTAL: $1667

No way in hell I'm paying that much.
 
RE: Front-end woes

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
Just picked it up a few minutes ago. No work done yet.The parts they're talking about being spot welded are cups that the strut rod bushings sit in. I guess they rust and become loose. Funny I've never heard about this one from anyone else, considering mine's a '98.Here's the breakdown:L-R lower control arms: 2 X $222.95L-R A + B Bushings: $516 hours labor for above at $95/hrStrut rod bushings: $1402 hours @ $95/hrWeld cups to frame: 1 hour @ $95/hrTotal: $14924-wheel alignment: $175GRAND TOTAL: $1667No way in hell I'm paying that much.
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Ouch!

I've not heard of the cups loosening due to rust either. But the welding spiel aside, those prices are scary. From what I read, it's $235 parts and labor plus a $175 alignment for a subtotal of $410 where I had the exact same done at Meineke for $200.

I'm sure they can do control arms for half the price as well. ;)
 
RE: Front-end woes

I still don't know what the hell A-B bushings are either. Looked in the parts diagram here:

http://www.parts.com/partlocator/in...r=1998&graphicID=FFP050&callout=5&catalogid=1

And there's nothing I can find. The serice manual doesn't talk about it either.

What I'm afriad of is if these bushings are simply some rubber thing, my warranty won't cover it because I believe all rubber items aren't covered.

FPN has all the parts except the mysterious A-B bushings for $440 total. Could probably get an even beter price from Max if I called him.
 
RE: Front-end woes

Talked to the service guy and asked about these "A-B" bushings. He didn't seem to want to help me (or just thought I was too dumb to understand), but what I THINK he said was that they're the bushings for the lower control arms. Do they come as separate parts? If so, then I guess that's what I need.

I'd also venture to guess that my warranty won't cover the rubber parts, so I'm screwed, except for the lower arms. From what I've been reading here and at the other site, it sounds like WAY too much trouble to do myself. The strut rod bushings sound particularly difficult to deal with.
 
RE: Front-end woes

You can replace the lower control arms and strut rod bushings at the same time yourself. It involves taking everything apart, but it's more time consuming than hard. If you have a drammel and a crowbar, you can cut through the OEM strut rod bushing sleeves in order to remove them. New polyeurethane ones can be had from Rockauto.com for relatively cheap. They also sell a complete lower control arm assembly (arm + all bushings + ball joints) for about $110 each side. They come disassembled, so you may need to pay a shop to have the control arm bushings press fit in.

Here was my cost and labor:

lower arms: $220 plus shipping

Strut rod bushings: ~$100 (get both ends: rod to frame and arm to rod)

Shop to press fit bushings: $50 total.

Labor (with full garage and pneumatic tools): 3 hours.
 
RE: Front-end woes

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
Do the polyeurethane bushings make the ride much harsher?
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I did not feel a difference when I put them in. But they do improve the handling of the car significantly. And you'll only replace them once - polyeurethane lasts forever.

A lot of folks on this post have done this swap. Maybe they'll chime in.
 
RE: Front-end woes

MArk I just did the lcas's in my car about 2 months ago. Easy job to do in an afternoon. I did strut-to-arm bushings as well; but did not do strut-to-frame.
Logres is correct on the prices he listed. shoot I even bought strut-to-arm bushings at AZ for $27. If you have a garage go for it. The local Pboys quoted $300 to install all the above and align it as long as I supplied the parts.
 
RE: Front-end woes

I don't have a garage, but I can get to one. The problem is that I don't have the tools I need, and I can just envision myself getting stuck at some point and not having a way to get it all back together, then being without a car. I guess I'm a wuss.

Anyone in the Chicago area that's comfortable doing this kind of work? Maybe we can work out a deal. Any second gen owners need a blend door actuator replaced? ;) THAT I can do.

Assuming I DID try to do it myself, what tools do I need? All I have is a 3/8" socket set and a hammer. I'm not even sure if I have access to jack stands or ramps.

I was looking at the RockAuto site, and they have Moog lower control arms (8783 and 8784). I'm still confused about whether I need to order control arm bushings separately or not, and if so, which ones.

As for the strut rod bushings, are they sold in pairs or individually? Hard to tell. And there's nothing that says what material they're made of.

I'm sure it would be easier to figure it all out by actually looking at it, but right now I'm confused as hell as to what's what.
 
RE: Front-end woes

You only need one box of strut arm to LCA bushings. I ordered two upon prompting from Rockauto but the box has two (one for each side). I'll sell you my other box for $20 shipped.
 
RE: Front-end woes

someone said the lower control arms don't come assembled, when i bought mine they did.

It's not a hard job, but you'll want air tools, a large assortment of sockets and wrenches, and a ball joint separator. It's a dirty, time consuming job but it's not that difficult. If i were in that area i'd do it for you.
 
RE: Front-end woes

Careful Dave, I'm half tempted to drive it up there just to have you help me do it. The only thing stopping me is that if it was a weekend, it would be too hard to find a place to get it aligned for the trip back.
 
RE: Front-end woes

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
...The only thing stopping me is that if it was a weekend, it would be too hard to find a place to get it aligned for the trip back.
[/div]

Sears is open for service on Sundays. :)
 
RE: Front-end woes

if I had a garage.... I'd tell you to come on down. The lca's that you buy come assembled. You would still need the strutrod to lca bushing and strutrod to frame bushing. What about your upper arm w/joint and sway bar links?


sorry just reread the post ignore last sentence if you do this job soon. Except for swaybar links.:D
 
RE: Front-end woes

The UCAs were replaced recently by the dealer. Those were covered by my extended warranty because it was the ball joints that were supposedly bad.

The thing about my warranty is that it doesn't cover rubber parts. But since the lower ball joints are supposedly bad, the entire LCA will have to be replaced anyway, which means new bushings. That only leaves the strut rod bushings I would have to pay for. At least that's what I'm hoping will happen.

I've got next Wednesday and Thursday off and I'll probably take her to another place that should be much cheaper, and see what happens.

Thanks for the advice everyone. It's just that after searching both sites and reading some of the horror stories about impossible bolts and whatnot, I think this is something best left to a pro. At least in my case. Besides, I don't have an alternate mode of transportation if something goes wrong and I get stuck. Not to mention the lack of proper tools.
 
RE: Front-end woes

Oh yeah, I've got a new compressor and spider valve coming from Eddie too. THAT I think I can handle myself though.
 
RE: Front-end woes

u should be able to re-use your old control arms, and just press in new bushings. polyurethane improve steering response and gets all the slop outta your steering, not to mention the lifetime warranty thing.

extended warranty will not cover bushings, because, liek u said, they are a wear and tear item. they should cover ball joints though, and u might be able to squeeze a free alignment outta them if u push it.

to replace your bushings, its not hard at all, but you need access to a press. if u really want to save a buck, u may wanna pull the arms off yourself, buy the parts, and just pay someone to press in the new bushings.

get polyurethan if u can, i really enjoy mine on my 240sx, it gets pricey to press in a full kit though.
 
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