I have some questions about how I should get gears installed. I bought a trac-loc and a set of Ford Racing 4.10's that were slightly used. I've run into a problem, discovering that shops don't want to install parts I supply and especially if they are used. I am thinking of trying to do this myself, maybe buying a spare pumpkin to put them in so the car doesn't have to be down for as long. Anybody know of a place or person in DFW area that would be able to do this? Any advice on how to do this, if I do it myself what tools do I need?
Gear Install Advice for DFW Mark
- Thread starter cragus
- Start date
RE: Gear Install Advice for DFW Mark
[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
... Any advice on how to do this, if I do it myself what tools do I need?
[/div]
I've been down this road. Do a search for other threads relating this experience.
I bought a used traction lock differential and a used stock center section. I then bought a new 4.10 gearset, deluxe install kit and a traction lock rebuild kit.
Then I studied the manual, asked a lot of questions and enlisted the help of a friend/co-worker to do the install. My previous experience with gears were years ago - and all straight axle. However, I felt confident and with the moral support of my friend, we succeeded.
The traction lock rebuild kit will come with instructions, and is easy enough to follow if you elect that is what you want to do.
Your first obstacle is the case spreader, which is a tool used to spread the case to allow easy removal of the differential and ring gear. We found it wasn't necessary, but it would make it easier to remove and install the differential. Removal of the pinion wasn't an issue.
The setting depth of the new pinion is critical. The manual calls for a special tool, but you can come up with the shim selection without it. A digital caliper is what I used. The installation of the pinion is not too difficult, but requires some brute force to crush the crush sleeve to set the preload - and you only get one shot.
The ring gear bolts on the differential and the you install the differential with shims and bearings. Now you need to measure the backlash and then adjust the shims left and right to establish the preferred backlash. It took me three tries at this to get it just right.
Once the center section has been set up, the actual R&R is not too bad. There has been a couple of good threads recently about this process. It took us one afternoon to do the gears and another short 4 hour afternoon to do the swap. This was the first IRS either of us had worked on.
So, IMHO, number one - get a manual. Number two - call Max at fivestar and he'll get you what you need for the install. Number three - enlist the help of a friend. Number four - we're here to try and help. I'm not sure I would've done it myself without people on this site and others who answered many questions long before the install.
[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
... Any advice on how to do this, if I do it myself what tools do I need?
[/div]
I've been down this road. Do a search for other threads relating this experience.
I bought a used traction lock differential and a used stock center section. I then bought a new 4.10 gearset, deluxe install kit and a traction lock rebuild kit.
Then I studied the manual, asked a lot of questions and enlisted the help of a friend/co-worker to do the install. My previous experience with gears were years ago - and all straight axle. However, I felt confident and with the moral support of my friend, we succeeded.
The traction lock rebuild kit will come with instructions, and is easy enough to follow if you elect that is what you want to do.
Your first obstacle is the case spreader, which is a tool used to spread the case to allow easy removal of the differential and ring gear. We found it wasn't necessary, but it would make it easier to remove and install the differential. Removal of the pinion wasn't an issue.
The setting depth of the new pinion is critical. The manual calls for a special tool, but you can come up with the shim selection without it. A digital caliper is what I used. The installation of the pinion is not too difficult, but requires some brute force to crush the crush sleeve to set the preload - and you only get one shot.
The ring gear bolts on the differential and the you install the differential with shims and bearings. Now you need to measure the backlash and then adjust the shims left and right to establish the preferred backlash. It took me three tries at this to get it just right.
Once the center section has been set up, the actual R&R is not too bad. There has been a couple of good threads recently about this process. It took us one afternoon to do the gears and another short 4 hour afternoon to do the swap. This was the first IRS either of us had worked on.
So, IMHO, number one - get a manual. Number two - call Max at fivestar and he'll get you what you need for the install. Number three - enlist the help of a friend. Number four - we're here to try and help. I'm not sure I would've done it myself without people on this site and others who answered many questions long before the install.
RE: Gear Install Advice for DFW Mark
#5 Dont install USED gears.
NEW gears are 149.00!
That is DIRT cheap.
Your going to spend more time and trouble trying to "set up" used gears than if you had gotten a new set to begin with.
Setting up rear ends can be tricky business, if you cut so much as "one corner" you can be assured of a crappy install.
Dont cut your own throat by using "used gears" when new ones can be had for SO SO CHEAP.
#5 Dont install USED gears.
NEW gears are 149.00!
That is DIRT cheap.
Your going to spend more time and trouble trying to "set up" used gears than if you had gotten a new set to begin with.
Setting up rear ends can be tricky business, if you cut so much as "one corner" you can be assured of a crappy install.
Dont cut your own throat by using "used gears" when new ones can be had for SO SO CHEAP.
RE: Gear Install Advice for DFW Mark
Hey would using the same size factory shims work when you install the 4.10s? I didnt have a press to get the bearings on so I heated up a pot of oil to 200 degrees and droped the bearings in there to expand from the heat, and they went on pretty smooth.
Hey would using the same size factory shims work when you install the 4.10s? I didnt have a press to get the bearings on so I heated up a pot of oil to 200 degrees and droped the bearings in there to expand from the heat, and they went on pretty smooth.
RE: Gear Install Advice for DFW Mark
[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
Hey would using the same size factory shims work when you install the 4.10s? I didnt have a press to get the bearings on so I heated up a pot of oil to 200 degrees and droped the bearings in there to expand from the heat, and they went on pretty smooth.
[/div]
I don't recall how much difference, but for me there was a small difference in the pinion shim and a large difference in the left/right differential shims from the old gears to the new 4.10s.
You can usually heat bearings in an oven or an oil bath as you did to facilitate placement without a press. 150-200 degrees is usually enough.
[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
Hey would using the same size factory shims work when you install the 4.10s? I didnt have a press to get the bearings on so I heated up a pot of oil to 200 degrees and droped the bearings in there to expand from the heat, and they went on pretty smooth.
[/div]
I don't recall how much difference, but for me there was a small difference in the pinion shim and a large difference in the left/right differential shims from the old gears to the new 4.10s.
You can usually heat bearings in an oven or an oil bath as you did to facilitate placement without a press. 150-200 degrees is usually enough.
RE: Gear Install Advice for DFW Mark
damn I knew right diffs shims were differnt but do you think I know stock is .027 can you recall how much the new ones were, if not i will have to find out where im with the shimes I just put in, anyways is there i way I can get the bearing of now with out damageing it, bearing puller does a crappy job.
damn I knew right diffs shims were differnt but do you think I know stock is .027 can you recall how much the new ones were, if not i will have to find out where im with the shimes I just put in, anyways is there i way I can get the bearing of now with out damageing it, bearing puller does a crappy job.
RE: Gear Install Advice for DFW Mark
Brad, the shims will be different with different housings and bearings due to dimension tolerences. The manual shows the use of a special tool that simulates the bearings loaded and gauges the depth setting relative to the bearing bores for the differential.
I did not have this tool, but the manual shows the dimensions of the parts that make up the tool. So, I seated the pinion bearings in the case with a jig I made using all thread, washers and nuts. Then I used a digital caliper to find the distance from the top of the inner bearing to the bottom of the cross bore in the case where the differential sits. I then compared this to the sum of the dimensions of the components of the special tool. The difference between the two is the shim required to set the pinion depth properly in the case. It sounds complicated, but with a manual showing the special tool and procedure, it can be figured out ok.
As far as removing the bearing off the pinion shaft, you may need to rent a tool. A jaw type puller will not work well. They make split pullers like this:
http://www.cartools.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/pubpOTC1122.gif
You usually can rent these. A competent parts store will know what you need. Of course you could always get another bearing and destroy the one in place now when removing it.
Brad, the shims will be different with different housings and bearings due to dimension tolerences. The manual shows the use of a special tool that simulates the bearings loaded and gauges the depth setting relative to the bearing bores for the differential.
I did not have this tool, but the manual shows the dimensions of the parts that make up the tool. So, I seated the pinion bearings in the case with a jig I made using all thread, washers and nuts. Then I used a digital caliper to find the distance from the top of the inner bearing to the bottom of the cross bore in the case where the differential sits. I then compared this to the sum of the dimensions of the components of the special tool. The difference between the two is the shim required to set the pinion depth properly in the case. It sounds complicated, but with a manual showing the special tool and procedure, it can be figured out ok.
As far as removing the bearing off the pinion shaft, you may need to rent a tool. A jaw type puller will not work well. They make split pullers like this:
http://www.cartools.com/Merchant2/graphics/00000001/pubpOTC1122.gif
You usually can rent these. A competent parts store will know what you need. Of course you could always get another bearing and destroy the one in place now when removing it.