Ignition Upgrades
- Thread starter PHRANQUY
- Start date
sleeper
Former LOD President
RE: Ignition Upgrades
Don't bother with any type of ignition upgrade on a stock motor. A lot of the stuff out there won't work with COP ignition anyway.
Even with the gen 1's, the stock ignition system is pretty good, so for the most part upgrades are just wasted money.
Don't bother with any type of ignition upgrade on a stock motor. A lot of the stuff out there won't work with COP ignition anyway.
Even with the gen 1's, the stock ignition system is pretty good, so for the most part upgrades are just wasted money.
RE: Ignition Upgrades
I guess the only reason I'm asking is because of future upgrades to my currently stock motor. I understand how good the COP setup on the Mark VIII is, but there is room for improvement somewhere, as nothing is perfect.
And I guess I don't see why it wouldn't benefit a "stock" motor when I noticed many differnt gains with a full ignition upgrade in my truck (MSD Pro Billet Distributor, 6A box, HVC Blue coil, and 10.5MM wires). Just about any vehicle can benefit from some sort of upgrade, if for nothing else other than better gasmileage when cruising. Is it just that it hasn't been done, or that it's been done and shown little benefit? I'd like to give it a shot and see what actually happens, but wanna figure out whats available to us before I spend twice as much on stuff I could have gotten cheaper.
I guess the only reason I'm asking is because of future upgrades to my currently stock motor. I understand how good the COP setup on the Mark VIII is, but there is room for improvement somewhere, as nothing is perfect.
And I guess I don't see why it wouldn't benefit a "stock" motor when I noticed many differnt gains with a full ignition upgrade in my truck (MSD Pro Billet Distributor, 6A box, HVC Blue coil, and 10.5MM wires). Just about any vehicle can benefit from some sort of upgrade, if for nothing else other than better gasmileage when cruising. Is it just that it hasn't been done, or that it's been done and shown little benefit? I'd like to give it a shot and see what actually happens, but wanna figure out whats available to us before I spend twice as much on stuff I could have gotten cheaper.
RE: Ignition Upgrades
I have a Gen1, so I don't count.
Seriously, a lot of our pickups in our work fleet has the same design mod motors with the same COP ignition, not much has changed. In our experience the COP design is certainly not infallible and failures occur. Plus you cannot tell me prior to failure there is a indeterminate amount of time of less than optimum operating conditions. This simply means that an upgrade is at a minimum RESTORING horsepower that has been lost over time.
Kind of like changing fuel filters. You're not actually gaining HP but simply restoring HP.
I have a Gen1, so I don't count.
Seriously, a lot of our pickups in our work fleet has the same design mod motors with the same COP ignition, not much has changed. In our experience the COP design is certainly not infallible and failures occur. Plus you cannot tell me prior to failure there is a indeterminate amount of time of less than optimum operating conditions. This simply means that an upgrade is at a minimum RESTORING horsepower that has been lost over time.
Kind of like changing fuel filters. You're not actually gaining HP but simply restoring HP.
sleeper
Former LOD President
RE: Ignition Upgrades
Sure, coils fail. But a stock replacement is plenty strong enough, and there will be no gain to be had by "upgrading". Actually, i don't even think there are aftermarket upgrades available for the COP system, but i may be wrong.
Once you spend the money on a high dollar motor, then it might be worth it to look into ignition upgrades. Even at that point, though, i don't think there will be much to gain. It's not like we've got breaker points and a distributor to upgrade, we already have a pretty state of the art ignition. Even for the gen 1, most of the ignition upgrades available are just placebos.
Put in good spark plugs (and wires on a gen 1) and make sure your stock ignition is in good working order. Other than that, you should have no need for a stronger ignition unless you are running a rediculous amount of nitrous, boost, or compression.
Sure, coils fail. But a stock replacement is plenty strong enough, and there will be no gain to be had by "upgrading". Actually, i don't even think there are aftermarket upgrades available for the COP system, but i may be wrong.
Once you spend the money on a high dollar motor, then it might be worth it to look into ignition upgrades. Even at that point, though, i don't think there will be much to gain. It's not like we've got breaker points and a distributor to upgrade, we already have a pretty state of the art ignition. Even for the gen 1, most of the ignition upgrades available are just placebos.
Put in good spark plugs (and wires on a gen 1) and make sure your stock ignition is in good working order. Other than that, you should have no need for a stronger ignition unless you are running a rediculous amount of nitrous, boost, or compression.
RE: Ignition Upgrades
No there is stuff available, I actually listed them in my first post, but you may have read past that. Many of the things that are out there were developed after the LS1's went to a coil per cylinder setup from what I can find, and it also appears they will work with the COP ignition on the Mark VIII's as well as the other Ford vehicles. I think I might do it just to see what happens. If I don't like it, find a camaro owner to sell it to.
No there is stuff available, I actually listed them in my first post, but you may have read past that. Many of the things that are out there were developed after the LS1's went to a coil per cylinder setup from what I can find, and it also appears they will work with the COP ignition on the Mark VIII's as well as the other Ford vehicles. I think I might do it just to see what happens. If I don't like it, find a camaro owner to sell it to.
RE: Ignition Upgrades
dude
the stock system on a 97-98 mark puts out about 43,000 volts at best the msd is gonna do 47,000 if you have the correct plugs gapped correctly and all and your boots are good and coils are good you should have no issues up into the 4oohp range. i would hate to see you spend money for nuthin and possibly run the risk of hurting something else.
ERic
o and btw
Stacker Ignition, 8-Channel Distributorless
PN 7020*
The MSD Stacker Ignition connects to your vehicle's wiring without disconnecting anything! Actually, the factory ignition remains in place and the Stacker delivers a powerful CD spark to improve the initial ionization of the plug gap to improve combustion in the cylinder. The two spark profiles work together to give you a great boost in ignition power in an economical ignition control. The majority of stock ignition systems are inductive designs. This style is inexpensive to produce and is adequate for OEM vehicles. Inductive systems generally have fair spark intensity, but fall short when it comes to high rpm operation and high voltage for performance engines. The MSD Stacker Ignition produces a high powered CD spark on top of the factory inductive spark so essentially, you receive the benefits of both spark profiles! The Stacker Ignitions simply "piggyback" your factory ignition wiring. This is an advantage in that the factory ECU continues to see the factory ignition signals so there should be no check engine lights or tachometer problems. There are three versions of the Stacker offered depending on the application. Each Stacker is supplied with everything you need for installation.
Stacker Ignition, Eight-Channel, Distributorless
PN 7020*
For engines with non-integrated individual coils per cylinder. Up to eight cylinders.
it wont work with cop ignitions
dude
the stock system on a 97-98 mark puts out about 43,000 volts at best the msd is gonna do 47,000 if you have the correct plugs gapped correctly and all and your boots are good and coils are good you should have no issues up into the 4oohp range. i would hate to see you spend money for nuthin and possibly run the risk of hurting something else.
ERic
o and btw
Stacker Ignition, 8-Channel Distributorless
PN 7020*
The MSD Stacker Ignition connects to your vehicle's wiring without disconnecting anything! Actually, the factory ignition remains in place and the Stacker delivers a powerful CD spark to improve the initial ionization of the plug gap to improve combustion in the cylinder. The two spark profiles work together to give you a great boost in ignition power in an economical ignition control. The majority of stock ignition systems are inductive designs. This style is inexpensive to produce and is adequate for OEM vehicles. Inductive systems generally have fair spark intensity, but fall short when it comes to high rpm operation and high voltage for performance engines. The MSD Stacker Ignition produces a high powered CD spark on top of the factory inductive spark so essentially, you receive the benefits of both spark profiles! The Stacker Ignitions simply "piggyback" your factory ignition wiring. This is an advantage in that the factory ECU continues to see the factory ignition signals so there should be no check engine lights or tachometer problems. There are three versions of the Stacker offered depending on the application. Each Stacker is supplied with everything you need for installation.
Stacker Ignition, Eight-Channel, Distributorless
PN 7020*
For engines with non-integrated individual coils per cylinder. Up to eight cylinders.
it wont work with cop ignitions
RE: Ignition Upgrades
I guess the only reason I was looking before was high RPM usage, as the motor I plan to build should have no problem spinning up to 8,500. From what I've seen, sometimes the COP ignitions will even have some trouble at the higher RPM's, but maybe thats a tune issue, I'm not sure. I guess I'll just do more research, and won't buy anything up 'til the moment I start putting the car back together (looking at doing this in 2 years).
I guess the only reason I was looking before was high RPM usage, as the motor I plan to build should have no problem spinning up to 8,500. From what I've seen, sometimes the COP ignitions will even have some trouble at the higher RPM's, but maybe thats a tune issue, I'm not sure. I guess I'll just do more research, and won't buy anything up 'til the moment I start putting the car back together (looking at doing this in 2 years).