Mark VIII vs Mustang GT "Feel"

D

dsinclair

Registered
First Question:

I had the chance the other day to borrow a stock Mustang GT w/auto and take a spin through some city streets.

After realizing how tight the driver's area is (seat full back AND reclined to fit my 6'3" "Husky" frame), compared to my Mark - the Mustang was very "peppy".

That is, it jumped off the lights, ran up through the gears quickly, and in short was WAY more responsive than my Mark.

Now, before you say "What an idiot - of COURSE - there's a zillion pound difference between the two cars" remember that this is a "grandma" GT - a simple 16 valve automatic with 80K on it - making what - 220HP?

The "peppy" factor... is it gearing? Trans shift points?

Question Two:

The Sound. In the GT the sound was "just enough" noise to let you know when you stepped on it - but not so much that you were reminded of a kid's car in the '70s. I want that. Should I just graft some GT mufflers on the back of my current setup or what?
 
RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT "Feel"

Also remember the different gear ratios in the transmisions. Two completly different cars.... Buy the Mustang.
 
RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT "Feel"

the peppy feeling is the large torque numbers those 2 valves put out. That engine is low on HP but has a lot of torque therefore around town driving it feels stronger. Put it down the track and it runs out of breath up top.
 
RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT "Feel"

the peppy feeling is the large torque numbers those 2 valves put out. That engine is low on HP but has a lot of torque therefore around town driving it feels stronger. Put it down the track and it runs out of breath up top.
Click to expand...

The torque peak on a 2v is identical to our motors. Same number, same RPM. The newer ones may be different, but the 220 horse ones are identical to ours. They just run out of gas right when ours hit their stride.
 
RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT "Feel"

they are more of Low-end cars, that goes for all 16V V8 ford engines. on the highway is another story, they cant keep up.
 
RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT "Feel"

the peppy feeling is the large torque numbers those 2 valves put out. That engine is low on HP but has a lot of torque therefore around town driving it feels stronger. Put it down the track and it runs out of breath up top.
Click to expand...

The torque peak on a 2v is identical to our motors. Same number, same RPM. The newer ones may be different, but the 220 horse ones are identical to ours. They just run out of gas right when ours hit their stride.
Click to expand...

I beg to differ. I will find some dyno sheets of the 2V over on corral. They always have a lot of tq down low.
 
RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT "Feel"

Just browsed the corral a little bit here are some stock GT numbers

Before his SC was on
199rwhp 247rwtq. Handle white99GT

Handle Yellow4.6
Before PI Cams.. 212.2rwhp / 279.0rwtq

Post PI cams...... 214.5rwhp / 284.5rwtq

his mods
98 GT: 5-spd
-01 PI Cams
-4.10's
-FRPP Headers
-BBK O/R H
-Magnapack C/B
-70mm T.B.
-BBK Pullies
-Mac CAI
-MM Subframes
-Eibach Pro-Kit
-Pro-5.0 Shifter

I could post these numbers all day long, but the 2V engine makes a lot more tq than the 4V engine ever thought of.
 
RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT

RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT

You're right Joe. I researched this before, when i had my '94 and a friend had a '96 GT. The source i looked at then said the torque peaks were identical, at identical RPM's. Edmunds now says that the torque is the same but that we get it up higher.

1997 Mustang GT (from edmunds.com)
Torque: 285 ft-lbs. Max Torque: 3500 rpm

1997 Lincoln Mark VIII
Torque: 285 ft-lbs. Max Torque: 4500 rpm

More torque than the 4v ever thought of is not right though. They don't make any more, they just make it down lower. You may get slightly more to the wheels with a stick, though.

http://www.markviii.org/cgi-bin/dcf...thread&om=4123&forum=DCForumID12&viewmode=all

That guys getting 258 at the wheels stock in a Mark. Considering he's losing an extra couple percent with an auto and doesn't have headers, that puts the DOHC damn close to the SOHC for torque. He's putting 20 less to the wheels, but doesn't have headers, pullies, CAI, or throttle body like your guy does.
 
RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT

RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT

258 rwtq is a crap load for a stock mark VIII!!! I dyno'd my car on Sat and have long tubes and only got 256 rwtq. Either way it does not matter. The DOHC engines are a good powerplant, but are low on torque when you need on your daily commute
 
RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT

RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT

Didn't you lose some torque when you ported your intake, Joe, or did you already do it again with a second one, like you mentioned?

Torque is a funny thing. A lot of mods that people do for HP end up costing torque. Like the DOHC heads... without IMRC's they'd have a lot less torque. We're basically running 2 valve motors until 3000 RPM, just with extra rotating/reciprocating mass.

Also, we're talking torque measured on a chassis dyno here, and that's NOT the way to compare two engines. If the software is set up right, differences between gears shouldn't matter, but drivetrain mass most definitely does. A heavier driveshaft and losses in the CV joints can cause differences in measurement, and different wheels can make a huge difference. I bet if you put small magnesium wheels on the car you'd pick up a lot of torque at the rear wheels. But i guess the point stands, that the GT's feel faster, because of those factors and the fact that the torque peak is at a lower RPM.
 
RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT

RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT

So, the reason for the difference is basically the torque?
 
RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT

RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT

Torque peak at lower RPM and less weight. The throttle may be set up differently too, so you don't have to hit it as hard to get a given % throttle. If you want the lincoln to feel more peppy, gears will do a lot.
 
RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT

RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT

The difference between the feel of the stock Mark and the stock GT Mustang is about equal between the jump from the Mustang GT to an ascMcLaren. After driving the McLaren and then going back into a stock Mustang GT you'd be amazed how ssllooww the GT feels :)
 
RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT

RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT

I gained almpost all of that torque loss when I adjsuted the a/f back to where it was.
But Dave is right, it feels quicker around town due to the torque band and all the little things that accentuate it.
 
RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT

RE: Mark VIII vs Mustang GT

the ultra intake is still on its way. Hopefully it will work like I expect it to.
 
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