Question for those with JW or Dennis Chips/tunes

C

calviroman

Registered
What temps is the cooling fan set up to turn or at? Turn off at?

I know it must be roughly 190 on, 180 off, but would like to know exactly. Thanks..................Cal
 
RE: Question for those with JW or Dennis Chips/tunes

I dont think the shutoff temp is nearly that low (I hope not).
 
RE: Question for those with JW or Dennis Chips/tunes

dennis didn't seem to know any of the limits on the chip except for the speed limit was removed
 
RE: Question for those with JW or Dennis Chips/tunes

I dont think the shutoff temp is nearly that low (I hope not).
Click to expand...

shutoff temp? i thought u were asking about the temp the cooling fan kicks in at.
 
RE: Question for those with JW or Dennis Chips/tunes

Right, it turns on at a certain temp (I believe it to be around 190) and runs until the temp cools down to another temp (which I believe to be around 180). I just want to get the exact temps. Reason is my T-stat does not begin to open until 185, so the engine temp could never sustain less than 190 or so, so the fan would never shut off. This is a problem for a few reasons:

1. Fan on high pulls alot of current = alternator wear + shorter battery life.

2. Fan on high all day wears out fan motor = more frequent fan replacement.

3. Higher current demands require alternator to place greater load on engine = slight loss of engine power.

Solutions:

1. Get new chip with changes made to fan control

2. design/install fan overide switch

3. Get lower T-stat so engine can actually get below 180

4. Manipulate coolant temp sensor circuit to make PCM think coolant is say 10 degrees colder than actual.

either way I need to know the on and off temps for the cooling fan. I can find this out experimentally but it would be easier if someone knew.
 
RE: Question for those with JW or Dennis Chips/tunes

I had this same question and emailed Dennis a few times and never did get a direct answer. He may not know, if he's just burning it from a standard file. I ended up having mine reburned for the T-Bird, and still don't know the answer.

I wonder if I send the chip off to Brian at Apten if he can pull the values?

John
[link:mark8.org/lodnca|NorCal Chapter Website]
http://mark8.org/users/johnaec/Mark_VIII_s.jpg
'97 Mark VIII LSC
'96 T-Bird 4.6L
 
RE: Question for those with JW or Dennis Chips/tunes

Right, it turns on at a certain temp (I believe it to be around 190) and runs until the temp cools down to another temp (which I believe to be around 180). I just want to get the exact temps. Reason is my T-stat does not begin to open until 185, so the engine temp could never sustain less than 190 or so, so the fan would never shut off. This is a problem for a few reasons:

1. Fan on high pulls alot of current = alternator wear + shorter battery life.

I have never had any problems whatsoever regarding the fan being on all the time. Mine is on HIGH forever, never lost an alternator or a battery in over 5 years?

2. Fan on high all day wears out fan motor = more frequent fan replacement.

Same here, over 5 years never had a problem

3. Higher current demands require alternator to place greater load on engine = slight loss of engine power.

""""

Solutions:

1. Get new chip with changes made to fan control

2. design/install fan overide switch

3. Get lower T-stat so engine can actually get below 180

I always have and alwaysy will swear by and reccomend the 160 T-Star.

4. Manipulate coolant temp sensor circuit to make PCM think coolant is say 10 degrees colder than actual.

either way I need to know the on and off temps for the cooling fan. I can find this out experimentally but it would be easier if someone knew.
Click to expand...
 
RE: Question for those with JW or Dennis Chips/tunes

Thanks for the replies. I'm all for putting in a 160 T-stat, but still have 2 questions:

1. Will the 160 stat solve the problem this thread was started over? (fan shut off)

2. Is there any truth to the rumors about the car not entering "closed loop" with a 160 T-stat? I have heard yes and no, and dont really know how I would find out if it is or not?

I wish I had asked JW when he was tuning the car, but I didnt think of it at the time.
 
RE: Question for those with JW or Dennis Chips/tunes

(around 47 MPH?). The fan operation is controlled through the VCRM and is not simply on/off nor hi/lo. A pulse width modulated DC signal feeds current to the fan motor for speed control.

You can totally bypass the cooling fan controller with a temp sensor relay circuit wired directly to the fan motor.

The Mark VIII fan is extremely efficient and is a highly sought after upgrade mod for other vehicles.
 
RE: Question for those with JW or Dennis Chips/tunes

Yes, the OEM programming has a super cool engine fan management. BUT, I THINK this is null and void when the chip overrides the VLCM and puts it on high all the time!
 
RE: Question for those with JW or Dennis Chips/tunes

Yes, the OEM programming has a super cool engine fan management. BUT, I THINK this is null and void when the chip overrides the VLCM and puts it on high all the time!
Click to expand...

I would need to double check, but I do not believe my chip puts it on constant high speed(but then again I do not have a JW tune or a Reinhart chip as per your original inquiry).

The OEM programming(according to what I remember in the manual) varies the fan feed from 6V to 12V linearly according to the engine operating temperature. I do not remember seeing any actual temperatures in the logic chart - just below normal/normal/above normal. With the AC operating(or defrost) a minimum lo speed of 6V is present. Two AC input sensors are used in determining the operation of the cooling fan. At highway speed the cooling fan is cut off regardless of the engine temp or AC operation UNLESS there is an engine overtemp condition which over-rides the cooling fan to 12V(hi-speed). All this is detailed in the service manual along with diagnostics and tests.
 
RE: Question for those with JW or Dennis Chips/tunes

Next time I drive the Lincoln, I'll hook a meter up to the fan leads and see if the voltage to the fan is present at speeds over 47mph after the car is warmed up.
 
RE: Question for those with JW or Dennis Chips/tunes

Excellent idea. I have a Radio Shack DVM capable of hooking up to a laptop and recording readings. It would be interesting to watch the fan operation this way while driving, not only shut off but also the variable speed input.
 
RE: Question for those with JW or Dennis Chips/tunes

Still havent driven the Mark, I have a beater car (Saturn) that gets most of the miles. I did test out the temperature gauge as follows:

Removed 2 pin connector from engine temp sensor.

Connected 0-100K potentiometer in its place

Put key in "acc on" position (gauges now reading current values)

Made a chart of "INDICATED ENGINE TEMP" -vs- sensor resistance

Next move is to remove temp sensor from car and boil it in coolant to make a chart of actual temp -vs- sensor resistance

I will then post the results, which will be actual engine temp -vs- exact temp indicator position.

Things I learned today: If your gen 2 EVER shows a temp over the "normal" position, and I think all gen 2 owners know what that is, you have a serious overheating problem. That gauge shoots up from normal to full hot with very, very litle change in temp (we'll know later exactly how much). Also, the message center warning that says "check engine temp" does work, BUT it doesnt come on until the Gauge is pegged!!!(again I will post the exact temp once I get the values from the sensor).
 
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