Should the trans jerk like this?

davedwards

Registered
2004 LS w/V8 and 5 speed automatic. When I put this car in reverse from park, she is really giving a jolt. from reverse to drive not as bad but still rougher than I would expect from this car. I've had the car about 2 months and was told that because it was a high performance engine & trans,that I would notice a slightly stiffer gear shift but I don't think this is normal. Mechanic at the trans shop says that these cars have servo operated valves in the trans and that as they wear and get high miles,(mine has 104000)that this is common and I am looking at major trans rebuild and major bucks. Is this common or may there be another solution. Maybe I'm just expecting too much as far as smoothness goes. Thanks
 
Almost sounds like it might be your u-joints. Is it more of a jolt or a clunk? Either way it's fairly easy to test your u-joints, just get under the car and see how much play is in the driveshalf. You shouldn't be able to rotate it a lot but a little play is normal.

If it isn't your u-joints I would take it to a couple smaller independent transmissions shops. You might be able to find someone that can diagonsis it correctly without saying you need a whole rebuild. On the other hand though, it may truly need a rebuild. It is hard to tell.
 
There's a TSB specifically for this concern. It involves replacing the solenoid pack in the transmission.

------------

TSB 05-21-8
DELAYED OR HARSH REVERSE ENGAGEMENTS - 5R55S TRANSMISSION - VEHICLES BUILT PRIOR TO 09/23/2004

Publication Date: October 13, 2005

FORD: 2004-2005 Thunderbird, Explorer, Mountaineer
LINCOLN: 2004-2005 LS, Aviator


This article supersedes TSB 05-15-4 to correct the Service Procedure.

ISSUE:
Some 2004-2005 vehicles built prior to 09/23/2004 and equipped with the 5R55S transmission, may exhibit a delayed or harsh reverse engagement. This condition may be due to improper pressure control.

ACTION:
It may be necessary to replace the solenoid body assembly. Refer to the following Service Procedure.

SERVICE PROCEDURE

NOTE: INSTALLING TRANSMISSION ADDITIVE WILL PREVENT THE SYMPTOM ON SOLENOIDS THAT DO NOT YET EXHIBIT THE CONDITION BUT WILL NOT RESOLVE THE CONDITION IF IT ALREADY EXISTS.



NOTE: CONTAMINATION IS NOT THE CAUSE OF THE CONDITION ADDRESSED BY THIS TSB. IT IS NOT NECESSARY TO FLUSH THE TRANSMISSION COOLER/COOLER LINES OR REPLACE THE FLUID PAN FILTER (7A098). ALSO, DO NOT REPROGRAM THE PCM, REPLACE THE MAIN CONTROL ASSEMBLY (7A100) OR INSTALL AN INLINE SERVICE FILTER (7B155).



NOTE: DURING SOLENOID BODY REPLACEMENT THE VEHICLE'S BATTERY MUST BE DISCONNECTED TO PROPERLY CLEAR THE PRESSURE ADAPTIVE TABLES.



LINCOLN LS AND THUNDERBIRD ONLY

Lower the transmission cross member and transmission to gain access to the pressure control solenoid-C (PCC) port. DO NOT disconnect the drive shaft.
Install pressure gauge per Step 2 of "DIAGNOSTICS", below.
Reinstall cross member and snug the fasteners for diagnostic purposes only.
Proceed with the "DIAGNOSTICS" section of this TSB.
After the TSB repair is completed, torque the cross member fasteners to 41 lb-ft (55 N-m).
DIAGNOSTICS - ALL VEHICLES

Remove pressure tap plug at PCC port (Figure 1)
Install a pressure gauge into the PCC port, using a 1" long nipple and a 90 degree fitting (Figure 2).

Warm transmission to above 150° F (66° C). Connect either WDS or NGS+ to verify that the Transmission Fluid Temperature (TFT) is above 150° F (66° C).
Place vehicle in park, engine off and check the gauge zero. This will be your gauge-starting zero for the procedure in the next steps. Note and record gauge zero.
CAUTION: IN ORDER TO OBTAIN CORRECT TEST RESULTS THE TRANSMISSION FLUID TEMPERATURE MUST BE ABOVE 150° F (66° C)



Start engine and let idle. Check the PCC pressure. PCC pressure should increase to between 0-15 psi.
If the PCC pressure is 0-15 psi while at idle in park, enter Output State Control with either NGS+ or WDS.
For NGS select Vehicle/Engine Selection; then select Diagnostic Data Link; select Module (PCM or TCM); then select Active Commands; select Output State Control; select Trans-Bench Mode.
For WDS select Tool Box; then select Datalogger, select Transmission; choose PCC# and push the tick mark; scale PCC pressure to 150 psi max; once rescaled hit the # sign then the button under the # sign and then the + sign to command pressures up and - to command pressures down.
CAUTION: DO NOT COMMAND MORE THAN 105 PSI FOR THIS PROCEDURE. COMMANDING PRESSURES ABOVE 105 PSI MAY RESULT IN NO VISUAL CHANGE AT THE GAUGE AND RESULT IN MISDIAGNOSIS.



Follow the procedure listed in the appropriate model and year Workshop Manuals, for PCC in Bench Mode. Change PCC commanded using the sequence listed in the Workshop Manual, noting the gauge value at each.
NOTE: ACTUAL PRESSURES SEEN ON THE GAUGE MAY NOT MATCH THE COMMAND PRESSURES EXACTLY. THIS IS CONSIDERED NORMAL.



For this procedure we are looking for increases and decreases. Gauge pressure should increase with each commanded increase, then decrease with each commanded decrease, returning to the same initial pressure indicated in Step a when the command is back to zero.

*** If it does not respond to each command state change or return to ±10 psi of the initial value, replace the solenoid body. Refer to Workshop Manual for removal and installation instructions. ***
Do not continue with this TSB if the PCC pressure readings follow commanded changes. (Park/neutral at idle 0-15 psi and reverse at idle 90-120 psi.) Follow normal diagnostics.
Adjust the transmission fluid to the proper level using only packaged/bottled (not bulk) reformulated MERCON®V.
Clear DTCs, verify that KAM has been cleared.
Verify whether Customer Satisfaction Program 04B22 has already been performed. If it has not, add 5R55S/E and 5R44E Transmission Additive as directed and close out 04B22. If 04B22 has been performed, DO NOT install additional transmission additive.

PART NUMBER PART NAME
4L2Z-7G391-AA Solenoid Body Assembly


WARRANTY STATUS:
Eligible Under Provisions Of New Vehicle Limited Warranty Coverage And Emissions Warranty Coverage

OPERATION DESCRIPTION TIME
052108A
2004-2005 Lincoln LS, Thunderbird 5R55S Transmission: Replace The Solenoid Body Includes Time To Perform Diagnosis Outlined in Service Procedure (Do Not Use With 7000F, 7000A11, 7000A43, 7191A, 7191AXQ, 7191A5)
2.5 Hrs
052108B
2004-2005 Aviator, Explorer, Mountaineer 5R55S Transmission Replace The Solenoid Body Includes Time To Perform Diagnosis Outlined In Service Procedure (Do Not Use With 7000F, 7000A11, 7000A43, 7191A, 7191AXQ, 7191A5)
2.7Hrs
 
Transmission tech or dealership?

Transmission tech or dealership?

Transmission tech at a very reputable trans shop says that he has done several of these solenoid packs. Pack change, torque converter change and fresh fluid for 800.00

Dealership is giving estimate of 1500.00.

Just wondering what could be the reason for 700.00 variance in price. Thanks
 
Dealer prices are always higher. Higher parts, higher labor.

I've never done this work before but $800 still seems high. Someone that has had this repair done should chime in to see if it reasonable.

Oh wait, is that a quote for a new torque converter too? That isn't in the TSB unless I'm blind.
 
Torque convertor change?? Does he mean fluid change?

This solenoid pack is replaced with the transmission still in the car; only the pan needs to be removed to gain access.

I hate second-guessing other dealers, but I don't know where the $1500.oo comes from, unless they're aware of some further problem I'm not.

The 4L2Z-7G391-AA pack retails for ~$450.oo and, as you can see at the end of the TSB, labour is 2.5 flat rate hours.
 
So using Frankie's numbers it would be safe to estimate:

$450 Parts - Solenoid
$70 * 2.5 Labor (adjust for your shop)
$120 - Supplies for complete fluid drain and refill + filter (Typical Drain/Refill/filter price)

Total - $640

I had no idea that part was so expensive.
 
HUH???

2.5 hrs = $70.oo??

$28.oo/hr door rate?

I didn't even see that back in the early 1980's when I was an apprentice!

We're $98.oo/hr.
The GM dealership up the street is $110/hr most vehicles, $115.oo/hr for retail Cadillac service.
The nearby Goodyear Go Centre is $95.oo/hr.
"Larry's Auto Repair", an independant we sell wholesale parts to, is $70.oo/hr, and he's just about the cheapest in the area.
 
I think mindy made a simple math error.

The correct total would be
450 parts
175 labor
120 supplies
$745

That said the dealers here charge $175-$190 an hour...
 
Yes the price does include torque converter

Yes the price does include torque converter

Local trans shop (not dealership) said that his 800.00 price included replacing solenoid pack and torque converter. He said that a car with that many miles should have the converter changed.If he dosen't change the converter, how much should that effect the price?
 
I've never heard about changing the converter just because of the mileage. Has anyone else? Not sure on the price since I have never had one replaced.

Yep, forgot to multiply the hourly charge. Don't you wish I did your billing. ;-) $70 is a fairly regular going rate for independent shops in the KC area. I think dealers in this area charge $85 to $120 per hour.
 
I never knew torque convertors had a "life expectancy"!

Dave, when you first began posting, you said your LS had just under 100,000 miles on it. You should expect any torque convertor to be good for a whole lot more than that.

Price?

I don't understand the price.

If your guy is going to remove the transmission, which is worth ~4 hrs., replace a $400.oo pack and a torque convertor which I cannot imagine being available for less than $250-$300.oo, and fill the transmission with 12 quarts of Mercon V, all for $800.oo, maybe Mindy's math IS right; he's charging you $28.oo/hr or less!!!
 
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Maybe its because

Maybe its because

I just don't know much about transmissions and he's taking advantage of that.I only know that he stated he had done several of these 5 speed transmissions and that with the miles on this car, that if I didn't have the converter changed that the new trans fluid could be contaminated and that the only way to do a thorough job was to change the converter. As far as the price,I can only go by what an experienced individual (such as yourself) tells me. I wish I had a greater knowledge of the transmission and how it works. I have a high respect for you guys who do. Sounds like maybe the converter change is not needed. Thanks
 
Let's think about this. If your transmission was just fine and you wanted a simple complete fluid change and filter replacement you never replace the converter during that procedure. They drain the fluid from the converter at that time. Replace the filter, pan gasket, pan and fill her back up and your good to go.

My transmission guy, an independent shop has never recommended a torque converter change to me. He also stands behind his work by giving a 3 yr, 75k mile warranty. Practically unheard of in the world of 1 yr 12k mile rebuilds.
 
I don't think the LS has a converter that is servicable in the same way as the Mark VIII, Mindy.

They should just flush the entire trans and then replace the solenoid pack. That would make sense in my mind.
 
Interesting about the serviceability of the converter on the LS, either way I don't see any reason to change the converter just because of the mileage.

Does anyone else?

Have you got bids from any other transmission shops?
 
My car did the same thing - first off id say check the fluid when its warm in neutral on level ground, Try using Slick50 High mileage Tranny Treatment. It worked for me, its like real thick trans fluid like gel almost. Add 1/3 of the bottle to it, only $10 worth a try verses all these high prices im seeing
 
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