very slow crank-will not start -HELP!

M

mark8_fool

Registered
’94 markviii has about 60k miles and is in GREAT condition.
Just paid $1375 for rebuild and install of transmission with 2 year warranty about 1000 miles ago at a major transmission rebuild operation
Drove to Palm Springs and back to Phoenix and found the car was running several miles per gallon less than before rebuild. Noticed small exhaust noise but it sounded a little like the old days in the ‘50s and ‘60s so did nothing.

Wife went shopping , came out 20 minutes later and car would not start. Tried to jump it, still would not start just clicked, had AAA flatbed it home.

Charged battery and jumped again, very slow cranking speed and major drop in interior light intensity.
Jacked the car and found :
One of two nuts missing on transmission cross member support.
Leaking gasket on exhaust line heating starter motor.
Missing bolt on fly wheel housing cover.
Wrong bolt or not seated bolt on transmission oil pan.
I was told my transmission was rebuilt but the oil pan cover is not the “cherry” one from my transmission. ( I pulled the pan and changed the transmission oil prior to rebuild)

Back to the no start issue, any advise on what to do next and could the transmission have anything to do with starting problem?xo
 
RE: very slow crank-will not start -HELP!

Sounds like a battery with a dead cell or possibly just a weak battery due to the extreme cold weather. You should take it to Autozone or Advanced Auto, let them recharge it for how many hours neccessary and then let them test it with their battery and alternator tester. Its all done for free.
 
RE: very slow crank-will not start -HELP!

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
...a weak battery due to the extreme cold weather.[/div]Between Palm Springs and Phoenix??

It's possible that if that exhaust leak got hot enough on the starter it might have been damaged. If you try starting it while hooked up to a running car with jumper cables is it still slow to turn over?

John
[link:www.goldengatemark8.com|Golden Gate Mark VIII Website]
http://mark8.org/users/johnaec/Mark_VIII_s.jpg
'97 Mark VIII LSC (Sold to SCcouper)
'96 T-Bird 4.6L
 
RE: very slow crank-will not start -HELP!

If it still turns over slow while being jumped I'd really suspect the starter. Maybe you can get a cheap one from a junkyard, (have them test it first), to try out. Obviously, you want to get the exhaust leak fixed either way...

John
[link:www.goldengatemark8.com|Golden Gate Mark VIII Website]
http://mark8.org/users/johnaec/Mark_VIII_s.jpg
'97 Mark VIII LSC (Sold to SCcouper)
'96 T-Bird 4.6L
 
RE: very slow crank-will not start -HELP!

got a new starter from checker, found the top bolt missing on the original, installed new starter, tried to start and it exhibited same behavior, de-installed new starter, put old starter back and again, the same behavior.

Still missing the top bolt, but it started with no problem from the time of the transmission rebuild and this problem beginning.

Getting frustrated and worried.xo
 
RE: very slow crank-will not start -HELP!

Let's go back to the battery & terminal scenario. Have you checked these, is your alternator putting out enough amps to keep it charged? Are your terminals in good shape?
 
RE: very slow crank-will not start -HELP!

Have a battery charger and battery seems to be fully charged.

Terminals look clean, remember this car looks and even smells cherry, give me an address and I'll send pix of the problems and overall car

I'm going to buy a battery cable and attach directly to the starter but first I have to go and be "grandpaw at Christmas" for awhile.

thanks for your interest and advice
 
RE: very slow crank-will not start -HELP!

I think it's either cables or bad battery, but here is tests. I would also get all those fasteners installes as well.
 
RE: very slow crank-will not start -HELP!

test A1-vom 12.7v

test A2 - cranks slowly- (last week I tried a new starter and had slow cranking as well.)

test A3 sorry, don't know how to find Circuit 32 (R/LB)nor Circuit 33 (RL/B)
 
RE: very slow crank-will not start -HELP!

If I buy a code analyzer, will it tell me if there are problems in the starting circuit?
 
RE: very slow crank-will not start -HELP!

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
test A1-vom 12.7vtest A2 - cranks slowly- (last week I tried a new starter and had slow cranking as well.)test A3 sorry, don't know how to find Circuit 32 (R/LB)nor Circuit 33 (RL/B)
[/div]

Perhaps this will help...

http://mark8.org/users/driller/pics/start2.jpg

Here's a charging system check...

1. Engine off - battery standing voltage.
With the engine off and fully charged battery, hook up the meter directly to the battery terminals(not clamp, bolt, nut, etc...). Read the meter as volts DC.

2. Engine running - lo idle - no load charging voltage.
Engine running at idle, all lights, accessories and AC off. Read the meter after voltage stabilizes from starting engine. Should be higher than (1).

3. Engine running - hi idle - no load charging voltage.
Engine running at 1500 RPM, all lights, accessories and AC off. Read the meter. Should be higher than (2) but not more than 2.0 volts higher.

4. Engine running - full load charging voltage.
Engine running at 2000 RPM, lights on high beams, AC on MAX(blower on high). Read the meter. Should still be higher than (1).



With the replacement starter showing the same symptoms, I would suspect an often overlooked possible bad ground. This could be at the battery terminals, the battery ground cable to the engine block, or the ground cable connection to the engine block. Look for signs of green oxidation at any connection, including the battery cables themselves. If this cable or any connection is bad, the starter motor current will be traveling through the other smaller ground circuits causing a slow crank.

The stock battery terminals are also very suspect with age. You may want to consider an upgrade...

http://mark8.org/users/driller/pics/battery.jpg
.:)
 
RE: very slow crank-will not start -HELP!

Thanks for the information.

BTW, batteries go way down in a few seconds even when jumped from a running car.

1. Looks like an closed circuit condition in the anti-theft controller module would ground the system and there would be no cranking at all or would it cause the starter motor to crank slowly?

2. If the negative battery terminal connector is disconnected and the negative battery terminal grounded/jumped directly to the transmission or starter motor what will I learn?

3. If the positive battery terminal cable disconnected and the positive battery terminal is connected/jumped to B+ terminal of the starter motor and the negative battery terminal cable was disconnected and negative battery terminal was connected/jumped to the transmission case or starter motor case, would the starter motor run at full speed, unless, here was a high physical resistance in the engine such as something dragging on the flywheel preventing the engine from turning over easily or a even a partially seized engine?
 
RE: very slow crank-will not start -HELP!

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
1. Looks like an closed circuit condition in the anti-theft controller module would ground the system and there would be no cranking at all or would it cause the starter motor to crank slowly?
[/div]

The anti-theft circuit would not allow any cranking.

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
2. If the negative battery terminal connector is disconnected and the negative battery terminal grounded/jumped directly to the transmission or starter motor what will I learn?
[/div]

There would not necessarily be any reason to disconnect the negative battery terminal. If you had another cable(or HD jumper cables) to connect to the battery negative terminal and the starter motor case ground you could deduce if the problem was the OEM ground cable or connections.

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
3. If the positive battery terminal cable disconnected and the positive battery terminal is connected/jumped to B+ terminal of the starter motor and the negative battery terminal cable was disconnected and negative battery terminal was connected/jumped to the transmission case or starter motor case, would the starter motor run at full speed, unless, here was a high physical resistance in the engine such as something dragging on the flywheel preventing the engine from turning over easily or a even a partially seized engine?
[/div]

If you simply connected power to the motor terminal, the starter motor would 'spin' freely, since the starter bendix gear would not engage the flywheel due to no power on the pull-in/hold solenoid.

If you connect positive 12V to the B+ terminal at the starter motor, and connect the negative ground to the starter motor case then jumped across the solenoid terminal to the B+ terminal, the starter should function normally.

If it were me, I would have the original starter you removed 'bench tested' at a reputable automotive electrical shop(probably NOT a national auto parts chain store). ;)
 
RE: very slow crank-will not start -HELP!

Quote 2

>>There would not necessarily be any reason to disconnect the negative battery terminal. If you had another cable(or HD jumper cables) to connect to the battery negative terminal and the starter motor case ground you could deduce if the problem was the OEM ground cable or connections.<<

Tested by jumping negative battery terminal to motor case, cranked slowly.

Will try another new starter...
 
RE: very slow crank-will not start -HELP!

Not yet, but I have used several newer batteries in testing.

When stores open tomorrow I will try a new starter and maybe and new battery. I can always use the old mark8 battery in my UPS.

I am just about ready to flat bed this problem to the dealer and let them hook up their computer to the car and find out what’s up. Worse case I’ll flat bed it back a put in a new long block. Best case it’s something so simple I just can’t see it. Some where in the middle of the two extremes above may be a problem with the transmission rebuild.
 
RE: very slow crank-will not start UPDATE

RE: very slow crank-will not start UPDATE

OK

Changed the starter and battery. The engine still cranked slowly but it was cranking with just one battery.

When the transmission blew 3rd and 4th at the exact same instant, the air conditioning compressor went off.

I had thought that maybe some signal was going from the transmission to prevent the compressor clutch from engaging and waited to see if the transmission rebuild would solve the problem. From the time the transmission cashed until the repair was done was several months due to over load at the shop.

When I got the car back the air compressor was still not functioning but summer was over and the “road tested” over to Palm Springs and back made me very happy to be driving a Markviii. BTW, there was a classic car auction in Palm Springs the day I was there and again, I was happy to be driving a Markviii.

I was going to look at the air conditioning problem on the week end after Palm Springs, but the caught the flu to the and was waiting to feel better when my wife called with the news the car would not start.

The message thread speaks for it self in terms of trouble shooting the problem.

When the car started rubber burned. I used my ½ drive ratchet to push on the belt tensioner arm and had my wife turn the key and it cranked and started with no problem.

So, tomorrow I’ll verify the bearings in the compressor are bad and get a rebuilt unless you all have a way to bypass the compressor with a different belt?
 
RE: very slow crank-will not start- UPDATE 2

RE: very slow crank-will not start- UPDATE 2

pulled the belt and everything spins freely but the crank and the A/C
 
RE: very slow crank-will not start- UPDATE 2

RE: very slow crank-will not start- UPDATE 2

Sounds like the AC compressor siezed and then the compressor clutch or the other way 'round.

A first for everything. ::roll::
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top