who knows air suspension here?

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PostShawn

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Well I am trying to figure out what's wrong with my suspension. It's a 1997 Lincoln MarkVIII LSC. Yes I searched. And I have been around the Tbird/MarkVIII community and I know of the suspension conversion like the ones American Air has. I am looking to get rid of the car real soon though so I don't want to drop $500+ if I don't have to. If I can I would like to narrow down what is wrong and replace just that part.

For a while my car's info center had the Check Air Ride Suspension warning come up. Well the car sat fine and wasn't leaking so I wasn't worrying. When I say for a while I have only had the car for a year and was going to convert but now I don't plan on keeping it. So just the other day I noticed my car was slammed but just in the front. It is around 3 inches from the ground. The back looks and seems totally fine. The front tires are a half inch into the upper fender though. The car doesn't come back up when I turn it on. I have driven it and it just stays almost slammed. So what can cause just the front to drop? Is there a good way to look for leaks? Visually everything seems fine. I had it up on a lift getting an oil change and they looked at it but don't do air suspension work (Firestone). The airbags seem to be ok and are not majorly ripped or anything. They are holding air and do not seem to give an play when I push on them.

So I took the car to Ford just to get an estimate. They couldn't narrow down a problem. They "recommended" to get the compressor changed out but would need to then test for leaks after doing so. My friend thinks there is a good chance it's not the compressor. He said that if it were a leak from say the bags it would be slammed more then around 3 inches. He suggested that maybe a valve went bad but doesn't know how the MarkVIII's setup is. He said on his lowrider Tbird each corner has a valve so I am wondering for the whole front to go down over night each side would have to have gone bad at the same time. That seems unlikely.

I am having my friend take a look on Friday. I bought a compressor from a good donor at a junk yard incase that is what's wrong. If I can't get it narrowed down I guess I will have to do a spring conversion but trying to see if I can fix it first for cheaper is what I am going for.

So if anyone has suggestions or things I can test it will be much appreciated.
Thanks,
-Shawn
 
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You may also burn't out the relay. In any event your junk yard compressor may be just as shot as water in these is what causes their failure. My estimate is that the real culprit is that your front air bags have the small cracks in the creases that allow them to leak down. You can't see them untill you really get up close and extend the boot and roll it around. If you need a rebuilt one I would go directly to American Air as Eddie is heads up an authority on our suspensions and his products and services are excellent.
 
As for the front slam, often one bag will leak first. There is a good chance one bag may be leaking, so all the weight is applied to the other which compresses down a lot - but not all the way. You can always reach in and feel if one or both bags are soft. One bag alone can not support the front end.

Also, I need more info:

When you get in and fire up the car, when does the check air ride come on. Right away, seconds later? 45 seconds, 90, etc....

If the check air comes up right away you could have a bad relay, a dislocated ride height sensor with a leaky bag(s).

If the check air comes up more than 45 seconds later you could have a bad compressor, a stuck vent valve as mentioned or a massive air leak. The car demands that the car reaches a certain height within a set time. If the car can not reach the proper heigh is faults. So if the compressor is not working there is no lift within that time.

If the vent valve is stuck open, the compressor runs but pumps all the air right outside - also, since the bag solenoids for the front are open they too are dumping any air they had outside - double whammy! A broken or disconnected airline can act just like a stuck open vent valve.

Worst case is that the bags have MASSIVE leaks and the compressor cant pump them up fast enough to get past the leak point. Probably not the problem seeing as this was a sudden drop.

So please get in and get an estimate of when the message comes on. If its coming on after a while, listen carefully for the compressor or an air leak. The car does NOT have to be running for this to work, just turn the key to on, this way the engine noise wont drown out what you are listening for.
 
Well I am in Los Angeles. I don't know how common it is to have moisture problems in Southern California becuase dry seasons last a long time here. So I am hopping if it is the compressor the one I got might be fine.


unity, thanks for the great info. I checked the car. The bags seems full still when I push in or squeeze them. They don't seem to be too tall of course cause the car is down but none the less no empty feel to them.

The compressor starts up, sounds and shakes like its pumping and does it on and off and then after 90 seconds gives the warning and stops. American Air's website says relay connection. So is it probably the relay gone bad? I couldn't hear any air leaking out. Just the loud compressor. Can I buy a replacement relay or is just cleaning it going to do it?

thanks
 
PostShawn said:
unity, thanks for the great info. I checked the car. The bags seems full still when I push in or squeeze them. They don't seem to be too tall of course cause the car is down but none the less no empty feel to them.

thanks
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When the bags are empty, the car is resting on the fully compressed shocks...they would feel very stiff.
 
We are talking about the bags, if they deflate, they empty and feel soft. The fact that they are full makes it sound like something is not right here.

If the vent solenoid was stuck open, the bags should be empty by now - actually even wrinkled. So they are holding air.

Yet the compressor runs and times out after thermal protection kicks in.

Maybe the relay is shot, it does do more than just run the compressor.

My guess is the compressor is somehow shot or the bag solenoids are staying shut. After a year of not opening, its very possible.

Maybe give Eddie at American Air a call.
 
logres said:
When the bags are empty, the car is resting on the fully compressed shocks...they would feel very stiff.
Click to expand...

When the shock lowers it doesn't build pressure, the stiff feeling is because the car is riding on the bump stops, and if the bump stops are missing, the car is probably riding on metal either in the strut body, or some other part on the car.

They call this the "rice bounce", haha.

The loud compressor doesn't mean its bad.....you should check the mounting grommets first. Pull the passenger inner fenderwell and watch it operate, or just try to wiggle it. Its probably super loose and it would help you rule that out as being bad.
 
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PostShawn said:
Well I am in Los Angeles. I don't know how common it is to have moisture problems in Southern California becuase dry seasons last a long time here. So I am hopping if it is the compressor the one I got might be fine.


unity, thanks for the great info. I checked the car. The bags seems full still when I push in or squeeze them. They don't seem to be too tall of course cause the car is down but none the less no empty feel to them.

The compressor starts up, sounds and shakes like its pumping and does it on and off and then after 90 seconds gives the warning and stops. American Air's website says relay connection. So is it probably the relay gone bad? I couldn't hear any air leaking out. Just the loud compressor. Can I buy a replacement relay or is just cleaning it going to do it?

thanks
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If the compressor is coming on and off then yes, I'd try cleaning and tightening the connection to the relay.
 
unity said:
We are talking about the bags, if they deflate, they empty and feel soft. The fact that they are full makes it sound like something is not right here.
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The bags themselves will still feel hard if empty...not a good test in my opinion.
 
J said:
When the shock lowers it doesn't build pressure, the stiff feeling is because the car is riding on the bump stops, and if the bump stops are missing, the car is probably riding on metal either in the strut body, or some other part on the car.

They call this the "rice bounce", haha.
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Right...I forgot the term bump stops.
 
For a while I would only get the message half the time I use the car. The other half it seemed fine. Until recently when I came out and it was down in the front.

I do get this bounce feel to the car if I drive it. Any little bump and the car bounces. Damn Los Angeles and it's crapy roads.

So tomorrow when I get into it I will see if I can narrow down from either the relay, solenoids, or compressor and hope it's not the bags. I'll also contact Eddie.

Thanks,
Shawn


Edit: gonna wait til Sunday to check out the car. I am waiting on the friends since they have most of the tools and jack stands.
 
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If you're down in the front ONLY, than I'm guessing you've either had a bag failure, or a vent solenoid is stuck open. I'd suggest jacking the front of the car up to ride heighth, and than turning the key on and see if the bags fill up. Most likely you have a hole in the bag/system which is overworking the compressor causing it to turn off.

The reason the car is soooo bouncy, is because the front is slammed onto NOTHING but a little rubber knob that keeps it from damaging the strut. Not a good idea to drive it this way.

Someone give him the link to American Air Suspensions "test procedure" page.

If you really give up.....you can buy a coil spring conversion kit for under 400 bucks and get it installed pretty cheap.*mob rushing into J's room and starts beating him* haha
 
No they will not, when deflated they are soft. I have deflated mine, I have two new ones that I had to remove the solenoids on, they are now deflated and soft. When I replaced my engine, the car sat for a year and my passenger side bag was soft since it leaked. So no, they will not be hard, its just a rubber bladder and without are its rather easy to manipulate.

Thats why it IS a good test. Its does not tell all, but if the bags are flat out empty there is a GREAT chance the vent solenoid is stuck open and when the car opens the front solenoids - they deflate, completely.
 
Under $400? Like the $399 plus 30 for shipping? Yeah, I am trying to avoid even that much since I want to get rid of it. If I can fix it for $100-200 I'd rather do that. But this looks like there is no one answer to this, even Ford didn't fully know. So I might just wind up doing the conversion. BTW, Firestone said $450 to do it but I think I can tackle it with some friends.
 
Have you checked the connection to the relay yet? It doesen't cost anything to do that.
 
unity said:
No they will not, when deflated they are soft. I have deflated mine, I have two new ones that I had to remove the solenoids on, they are now deflated and soft. When I replaced my engine, the car sat for a year and my passenger side bag was soft since it leaked. So no, they will not be hard, its just a rubber bladder and without are its rather easy to manipulate.

Thats why it IS a good test. Its does not tell all, but if the bags are flat out empty there is a GREAT chance the vent solenoid is stuck open and when the car opens the front solenoids - they deflate, completely.
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I thought the assumption was that the bags were cracked and leaking that way...my bad.
 
J said:
Heres that link, this will have ALL the info you need for possibly an "easy" fix.
http://www.americanairsuspension.com/MARK VIII AREA.htm
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I've been checking those articles. Nothing gives me a definite answer. It does take 90 seconds before it goes off though which that article says clean the relay.


billcu said:
Have you checked the connection to the relay yet? It doesen't cost anything to do that.
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Yeah, I will be doing that. I have to wait until Sunday. I don't have jack stands so I have to wait until friends are able to help. but in the meantime I am cleaning the other relay I have (from yard) just incase.



Thanks.
 
Well the fact that the relay is working, or so it appears, and the compressor runs - the air had to go somewhere. Have you located where the air is going?

If anything, remove one air line form the dryer and see if good pressure is coming into the dryer, this may tell you if the vent valve is open.

To me now, it seems as if a solenoid is stuck open, or closed somewhere.
 
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