You learn something new every day

sleeper

sleeper

Former LOD President
I just flipped on CSPAN and i'm watching a speech from Reagan at the '84 GOP convention. If the date wasn't on the bottom, you'd swear this speech was given last year. He's calling for a balanced budget amendment, and for line-item veto powers for the president. (plus lower taxes :) )
 
RE: You learn something new every day

You only have to think of the "Chain" as an example of how Reaganomics works, and the stem of its conception. Once you discover its base origin, the chain seems all to familiar as each link passes by. A speech given 20 yrs ago SHOULD sound like it is coming from a republican hopeful. It happens almost every time a democrat moves into the white house. The chain gets broken. But since each link in the chain is identical, you can just pick it back up, and try it again.


Unfortunately, a gulf-war, and a desert storm, followed by some serious national security issues tends to distract from fixing our nations budget deficit.

The only thing I am VERY Thankful for is, *whoever* was responsible for the 9/11 attacks, waited until Mr. Clinton had packed up and was basically asked to leave. I couldnt imagine in a million years what AlGore would have done...then again, had he won the election 4 years ago, 9/11 probably wouldnt have happened. Its a modern day heirarchy.

It makes me *almost* want to vote democrat, just to get our soldiers back home.(I said ALMOST).

Food for thought: had the 9/11 attacks not occured, and the "war on terrorism" not be at hand, allowing GW to actually be a politician, instead of a world leader, do you think he would still be as hated?

I have never seen so much hatred towards our leader in my life. I just wish everyone would stop, and think for one second: "What would you have done?"

Ok...sorry... its been a rough morning. Forgive my ramblings.

Nice post Dave...amazing what we all forget happened 20 yrs ago, huh?
 
RE: You learn something new every day

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
The attacks on 9/11 had been planned for years, they would have definatly happened with gore or anyone in office. I think the lack of a similar scale attack on the US is thanks to Bush. [/div]

I agree.

97 Opal LSC
"Knowing is half the battle" Gi Joe
 
RE: You learn something new every day

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
The only thing I am VERY Thankful for is, *whoever* was responsible for the 9/11 attacks, waited until Mr. Clinton had packed up and was basically asked to leave. I couldnt imagine in a million years what AlGore would have done...then again, had he won the election 4 years ago, 9/11 probably wouldnt have happened.
...
I have never seen so much hatred towards our leader in my life.
[/div]

I was wholeheartedly in agreement with your post until "had he won the election 4 years ago, 9/11 probably wouldnt have happened." Are you saying if Gore would've been elected President, the terrorists would've stopped their training and planning? I thought preparations and planning for these attacks had been in the works long before 2000. What were the previous terrorist attacks in the Clinton era for? Please enlighten me as to your thinking?

As for the hatred towards Bush being so extreme... I think there is an obstinant media that heightens the hatred to a percieved level much higher than actuality. IMHO there were vehement Clinton 'haters' as well, but their views were not mirrored in the journalists and broadcasters of the day, so it was perceived at a much lower level. I am also of the view that Bush has created his political enemies by doing what he says he was going to do. In US politics today, that really ticks a lot of people off! The audacity of someone to actually do something rather than mire it in debate!
 
RE: You learn something new every day

Reagan was one of the best presidents ever. I cringe at the thought of Al Gore being in charge during 9/11. But I also believe that the media makes the hatred towards Bush worse than it actually is.
 
RE: You learn something new every day

I have to disagree with you about the media, I think they are in the pockets of the right leaning republicans and don't do nearly good enough a job reporting the failings of the present administration. It's safe to say we all care about the air we breath and the water we drink? Do some reading here- http://www.nrdc.org/
Bush has filled positions in the EPA and interior department with people who were lobbyists for the industries they are now supposed to regulate. Talk about putting the fox in charge of the hen house.
Bush proposed his "No child left behind" program, pushed it through the house and senate, and then underfunded it by 27 billion dollars.
Sounds like a lot of children will be left behind to me!!!
The prescription plan he pushed through doesn't allow negotiation of drug prices with the manufacturers, who benefits from that?
There are plenty more instances of failures in policy or outright cronyism in this administration, where do you hear of this in the main stream media? You don't. The only way you learn of these things is by scouring the internet or reading books. The media is failing the people of this country.

Just my .02

Phil
 
RE: You learn something new every day

Well said Phil. The problem with the media today isn't necessarily that they're right-wing or left-wing. The problem is that they're all about profit now. There was a day when the news outlets were considered a public service (at least television and radio).

Then along came the first Gulf War, and CNN's ratings blow-out. Before that, CNN was considered too "specialized" to ever attract large numbers of viewers. They were a small player in the cable market. But once the big-wigs figured out that there was actual money to be made in "the news", it suddenly became big-business.

And as the competition between cable news stations became more heated in the 90s, the need to appeal to, and ENTERTAIN, viewers became top priority. I could go on about a certain cable news channel, but I'll stop there.

The point is, INFORMING viewers has taken a back seat to PLEASING and ENTERTAINING viewers.
 
RE: You learn something new every day

Before I add my thoughts, I am a moderate registered democrat as well as a fervent Jesus-freak. I voted for Bush.

That being said, I used to admire Bush very much, but I don't admire him so much now because it seems he has trouble admitting fault. Not that I'm pointing to anything in particular, just that I've never heard him admit fault to anything. No one is perfect - and I find it arrogant when someone just never owns up to anything.

Maybe I'm smoking something...anyone else feel the same way?
 
RE: You learn something new every day

Bush has done nothing to stop terrorist attacks in our country. There are people here who are waiting and planning a large scale attack. Please don't forget how much time there was between the first attack on the WTC, and 9/11. What was it, almost 10 years? These people are patient. Our borders are basically as loose as ever. These people use simple methods to attack that are difficult, if not impossible to stop.

If we don't change our policies in the near future, we will start being attacked in a manner similar to the way that the Jews are routinely attacked in Israel....in buses, malls, eateries, etc. We need to question motives to understand prevention. I'm not calling for appeasement in any way, but I question the sanity of those who say that we are being attacked because, "They hate our freedom". That is naive. We are being attacked because they feel that we are crusading, and if you look at the situation from above, who can blame them?
 
RE: You learn something new every day

I also believe that no matter which president was in control, 9/11 was bound to happen sooner or later. Maybe on a different scale...who knows. They wanted to make a "statement" with the attack, and they would have made it no matter what.

In a previous post, Dave said the "WMD" would be "found" and used as a tool in the presidential race. Anyone else think that?

I have a friend that thinks Osama was captured "several months ago", and he will also be trotted out as a Bush trump card just before the election. I thought he was nuts. Now I read this: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040904/D84T2OUO0.html
Is it possible..even a little, that you guys could have him already? I personally doubt it as I'm not one of those "conspiracy" guys, but man, what a coincidence it would be if he was caught in a few weeks....
 
RE: You learn something new every day

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]The only thing I am VERY Thankful for is, *whoever* was responsible for the 9/11 attacks, waited until Mr. Clinton had packed up and was basically asked to leave. I couldnt imagine in a million years what AlGore would have done...then again, had he won the election 4 years ago, 9/11 probably wouldnt have happened. ... I have never seen so much hatred towards our leader in my life. [/div]I was wholeheartedly in agreement with your post until "had he won the election 4 years ago, 9/11 probably wouldnt have happened." Are you saying if Gore would've been elected President, the terrorists would've stopped their training and planning? I thought preparations and planning for these attacks had been in the works long before 2000. What were the previous terrorist attacks in the Clinton era for? Please enlighten me as to your thinking?

[/div]

KEY WORD *WHOEVER*


"long before 2000"...you bet. Known about by the government? who knows? avoidable during the Clinton era? totally. It is amazing how much information came "to light" as the pieces were sifted through. Too bad our country was too busy watching Clinton, instead of its borders/airports.
I am not saying that a terrorist attack wouldnt have happened in the U.S. or on U.S. soil, but for some reason (not to be discussed in this arena(I've seen how you folks play)) I do not believe what did go down on 9/11, would have gone down had AlGore been in the whitehouse. That is not to say that *something* wouldnt have happened to our nation, but I honestly believe that the terrorist strikes would not have unfolded the way they did. Who knows, with AlGore in office, the terrorists might have driven Volvo's into the forrests of Washington State, built a compund, and armed spotted owls with anthrax granades, and trained to fly over heavily populated areas. its just that these *terrorists* knew of Bush's ability to do as he sais he will do. they went right for the heart. We all felt it. but the whole thing was "known" about months prior, even years prior. How? When? Where?-maybe a mystery...but WHAT?...that was known.

I am a total 'anti-media' thanks to what has become a circus and the only acts being performed are those of tragedy, death, crime, and loss. The day the media shows us happiness, wealth, crime-free neighborhoods, and peace-loving patriots, I will begin to look. Until then, I refuse to let my brain become media-jell-o.



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see profile for mods[/a]​
 
RE: You learn something new every day

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
I also believe that no matter which president was in control, 9/11 was bound to happen sooner or later. Maybe on a different scale...who knows. They wanted to make a "statement" with the attack, and they would have made it no matter what.In a previous post, Dave said the "WMD" would be "found" and used as a tool in the presidential race. Anyone else think that?I have a friend that thinks Osama was captured "several months ago", and he will also be trotted out as a Bush trump card just before the election. I thought he was nuts. Now I read this: http://apnews.myway.com/article/20040904/D84T2OUO0.htmlIs it possible..even a little, that you guys could have him already? I personally doubt it as I'm not one of those "conspiracy" guys, but man, what a coincidence it would be if he was caught in a few weeks....
[/div]

The "October Surprise", be it Bin Laden's capture, or the discovery of WMDs has been being discussed in certain corners for many months. While both of them are highly unlikely, if they did happen to capture Bin Laden in October, I for one would be extremely skeptical.
 
RE: You learn something new every day

95MARK8LSC,

I agree. Unless policy is changed, it's only a matter of time, a certainty, that suicide bombings in public places will make their way to the US. Israel, known to have one of the best anti-terror programs in all the world, is powerless to stop such bombings. The US would be in the same boat. I also agree that the terrorists aren't mad at your "freedom". There are hundreds and hundreds of free nations in the world, many a better place to live than the US, yet they don't seem to have the cloud of terrorism hanging over them. Certainly the US policy plays a large role. And their friendship with the Saudis and the Israelis play a role too. And many actions the US has done has hurt them too. Bin Laden made a "prophecy" years ago that said the US would invade and occupy an oil rich Arab country unable to defend itself. There's no question after what happened in Iraq that his followers have elevated him to god-like status. And the pre-emtive strike policy could also come back to harm the US. Iran is talking about first strike against Israel and the US, and North Korea, China and Russia have mentioned first strike against their enemies. That first strike mentality has set a dangerous pattern in motion which could make the world a dangerous place in the coming years....
 
RE: You learn something new every day

For sure. Also, Bush has done more for the advancement of al Qaeda, and terrorist recruitment in general than Hussein and Bin Laden could have done together in all their lives. Bush's response to 9/11 was predictable, and just what the terrorists had in mind. Reckless to say the least. Without a plan to say more, and to top it all off, completely void of any consideration what-so-ever for the cultural dynamic which they would face after the initial military "shock and awe". I really think that Bush and his gang expected that the Iraqis would all be out in the streets saying "Thank you. Now let's get this Democracy going.". Bush had no clue that it would go anything like this.
 
RE: You learn something new every day

Yes. I heard Bush and his people read the book "The Arab Mind" (as I have), but they didn't ask anyone to put what was said in the book into context. So they kind of used it as their method for dealing with the Arabs, and it was fairly off the mark. Also, the US doesn't seem to have any idea how much religion means to these people. In the US, religion is a lifestyle choice. In the Arab world, it IS their life....
 
RE: You learn something new every day

Several good points. I have not read any of the links. I dont think we have binladen. I think we know where he is though. Its just a matter of picking up the phone and saying go grab him. This way we have camera's and everything in place to make a huge media blitz. As for the fight on terrorism. We will start seeing more support. Dont be a bit surprised when Russia steps in and starts sending troops to Iraq. They will do this because the payoff will be huge from U.S. support down the road. This will be a good start to building world support to stop terrorism. As for terrorists operating within the U.S., we will have it much worse. If somebody took over a school in the U.S. we would still be negotiating with them and going nowhere. Then we would look around and find somebody to blame other than our own policies. In the U.S. the police will not be allowed to deal with the problem in the proper manner. It will all be political and illogical which will give terrorists even more strength. Everywhere else in the world i.e. Isreal and Russia to name a couple they are hard core when dealing with terrorist. Not only do we have laws forbidding us from being proactive, we have a political system that will back off at the first sign of negative publicity. Happy hunting terrorist, its open season on Americans.

If quizzes are quizzical, what are tests?
 
RE: You learn something new every day

[div class="dcquote"][strong]Quote[/strong]
... As for terrorists operating within the U.S., we will have it much worse. If somebody took over a school in the U.S. we would still be negotiating with them and going nowhere. Then we would look around and find somebody to blame other than our own policies. In the U.S. the police will not be allowed to deal with the problem in the proper manner. It will all be political and illogical which will give terrorists even more strength. Everywhere else in the world i.e. Isreal and Russia to name a couple they are hard core when dealing with terrorist. Not only do we have laws forbidding us from being proactive, we have a political system that will back off at the first sign of negative publicity. Happy hunting terrorist, its open season on Americans.
[/div]

I disagree. Back when our problems were school shootings, we had the same argument about our home town school system security and local police response. One thing they aren't counting on is an F250 with a deranged parent crashing through the school doors armed with the help of Glock, Mossberg, Colt, et al, and I don't think I would've been alone. Isn't this the most heavily armed nation in the world, despite the best efforts of those who ignore our constitution? IMHO, far too many have already forgotten September 11, but trust me, it won't take near as much to wake the tiger this time. ::nono::
 
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