98' Cobra Intake Manifold

[SolipcisticSmile]

Hey everybody

So, I found and bought a 98' Mustang Cobra Intake manifold today on the advice of someone from these forums. Unfortunately, as an old 5.0 mustang guy, I think that I severely underestimated the complexity of these "new" DOHC engines. I could have the old intake removed and a new GT40 installed on a 5.0 in less than 2 hours with only hand tools. I didn't really take a good look at how extensive the work will be to perform the same upgrade on my LSC. Obviously it is at the very least an aesthetic upgrade (especially after I polish it) but I wonder if this intake actually accounts for the 15HP that the LSC is down compared to the cobra. I mean, I shold still be able to install the twin 63mm throttle body and 90mm lightning mass air meter upgrades on the stock LSC manifold right? So, my question becomes, performance wise, is it worth the effort to swap ouy the LSC manifold for the cobra piece, or should I just sell it?

 

[maxmk8]

The throttle body and the MAF will prob not give you any extra power.

The cobra manifold is quite a job... since you have to install both upper and lower pieces. And do some custom fab work for a few items like the throttle cable I believe.

It all depends on your end goal.

 

[SolipcisticSmile]

Power is the goal!

Power is the goal!

Custom fab work did you say?!?!?!?!?! I am an accomplished 5.0 shadetree mechanic and nothing more. I guess my end goal is mid 13's and reliability. My plan was Cobra intake, TB, mass air, pullies, K&N filter w/o silencer, 3.55 gears, traction loc diff, headers, some kind of unobnoxious exhaust, aluminum driveshaft if I could find one, weight loss (fiberglass hood, Decklid etc.), chip if I can find one,turned up timing (again if I can figure out how to do it, this ain't no 302 H.O.) and I guess cams if they are necessary to reach 13's and if I can figure out how to do them. I guess all the basic bolt ons. I really don't want to do supercharger / turbo / nitrous unless that becomes a last resort. It doesn't need to be stupid fast, but my 5.0 is a low 10 sec. car so I have a pretty good idea of where I want to be, and mid 13 is a great power level for a daily driver. Any ideas or suggestions?

 

[maxmk8]

Well since you are fairly new to the 4.6 DOHC. Here it goes.

You won't be doing cams... since it is way to involved.

The hood is already very light aluminum... so I doubt you will do much better with fiberglass given teh extra expenses etc. if you have a gen 1 (93-96) the hood is already a composite material.

Here is what you need to reach the 13s (high high 13.9s).

4.10s with trac-lock
Good driveshaft
transmission cooler
Higher stall converter
I would remove the 3rd cat and give straight pipes a shot to see if it sounds good to you.
You can do pulleys.. some hate em some like em but they are worth about 1-2 tenth if done right.
Tune/chip is a MUST after gears etc.
Headers... hmm hard to find ones that will fit the mark VIII right... also the install is pretty involved.

You won't reach mid/low 13s unless you do FI or major weightloss or NOS. Bolt ons for the Mark are just not efficient from a bang/buck perspective when it comes to making it fast N/A

 

[bryantaylor]

a fuel pump and a 100 shot will put you into the 13s no problem at all.

 

[maxmk8]

a fuel pump and a 100 shot will put you into the 13s no problem at all.

Umm what about supporting mods like transmission cooler and tune? Diff plugs etc.

 

[driller]

If you only do the intake swap - it likely may not be worth it. Pair the better flowing intake with a better flowing exhaust and it will be very noticeable.

If you look at the Fastest Lincolns of Distinction thread, you will see ONE Gen2 Mark VIII that is listed in the 13s naturally aspirated. Guess what? It has(had) a Cobra intake and not that many additional mods.

The throttlebody and MAF are not required with the Cobra intake. Cams on a Mark VIII are not for a shadetree mechanic(your words, not mine).

The intake combined with exhaust(including headers), a chip or tune, gears and converter with supporting mods (driveshaft, traction-lock, fuel pump, tranny cooler, tires...) should put a good running Mark VIII in the 13s and it will be a blast to drive.

You won't reach mid/low 13s unless you do FI or major weightloss or NOS. Bolt ons for the Mark are just not efficient from a bang/buck perspective when it comes to making it fast N/A

Max, you know I respect you and your opinions, but I can't agree with your statement. I do not have forced induction, weightloss or NOS.

 

[SolipcisticSmile]

This aint no 5.0

This aint no 5.0

Wow. First of all let me thank all of you for showing interest in my humble plans. I really can't believe the amount of work that will be necessary to take my Mark to the 13's. (it's a 98' LSC by the way). I cant say that I would not consider NOS, but the power is only there when you press a button, I want it there all the time. Unfortunately, my budget just does not allow for all of the above recommended mods in a short period of time (If I find a publisher for my book I will, but thats a whole different story....). I guess that I will take it one step at a time. Tomorrow I install my new K&N and remove the silencer. I guess in the mean time I will save for a SCT flash tuner, research what work will be involved in installing this cobra manifold since I already bought it, and research exhaust / header options. I don't know if you all have had different experiences than my own, but most performance companies either don't know anything about the Mark / don't have anything available, or just don't care because it's not a Mustang / Camaro / Corvette / Musclecar. I hear there are impressive gains to be made from just a tune since supposedly Lincoln tuned these cars VERY conservatively at the factory, so mayse I will jump right to that and then have the option of A/F ratio tuning and speedo calibration when I do the other things. In the Mustang world, which I'm still somewhat a part of, 13's and even 12's are easy and cheap. I guess I'll have to adjust my paradigm. i think it's worth it. I really love this car.:big-grin:

 

[driller]

You're at a disadvantage starting with a '98. The Gen2 intake being one of the bigger obstructions. The stock tune being a big obstruction as well.

The good news is at least you have the better dual exhaust and the best tranny to start with. Add a cooler and do a J-mod or Baumann shift kit and your transmission should be good to go safely with your plans of 13s. Add some Kooks headers to the LSC exhaust without cats or with aftermarket cats and it will compliment the intake swap very nicely.

If you can find a place to do it, once the mods are complete, a dynotune (with the flash programmer or chip) is usually worth a big gain in HP as well. I would do the mods, get a chip or flash programmer, then go for the dynotune. Of course, you could just get the SCT Pro-Racer package and tune on your own.

 

[SolipcisticSmile]

I didn't know about all that...

I didn't know about all that...

The gen II has the worst intake manifold and tune? And the better exhaust and tranny? Well, thats news to me. I just bought a 98' cuz I think they are the best looking, and this car had only 42K miles and was $5,000. I don't know what a "j - mod or baumann" is, but I do understand the rest. So, I should keep this cobra intake I have and maybe get a new Mass air (lightning 90mm) and TB (cobra Twin 63mm) and also upgrade exhaust w/ headers? Does someone make a full exhaust for this car, or is it all custom? I heard that a chip ( but i dont know what kind) is a good first step cuz it will firm up the shift points and help with the severely retarded factory timing as well as allow me to compensate for any gear / wheel diameter changes I make in the future. Is any of that true? I hope that my installing a K&N and removing the silencer tomorrow wont totally screw up my A/F ratio. I cant believe how complex these cars are. This aint my notchback 5.0, thats for sure. I plan to do many of the things you mentioned, but I will be doing them one at a time. Is a trans cooler really necessary? What about this upgraded driveshaft before gears that I hear about? After tomorrows basic upgrade, I'm thinking chip should be next, especially if it will firm up my shift points and give me some timing. What do you think? I'm out of my element here.

 

[maxmk8]

Max, you know I respect you and your opinions, but I can't agree with your statement. I do not have forced induction, weightloss or NOS.

Hey Absolutely JP.

I dunno how you do but I got to give it to ya, you make that mark of yours run like a bat out of hell.

My modded gen 2 ran barely faster at the track than my stock gen 1.

As you mentioned the fastest list yourself...
Only Dave's (sleepers) car made the list at 13.8. And he had gears, headers, chip or tune, exhaust, cobra intake. and he managed a HIGH 13... with pretty much every bolt on available. In my post I did mention mid to low 13s given the fact that he is starting with a gen 2... it would be quite a feat.

 

[time attack]

I thought the Mach 1 /Cobra intake iis the same as the one in the Gen2 Mark 8 ? A guy that does tuning told me it's in the computer and exhaust , and to try and and get the heads and intake off a Gen2 Mark 8 . And he does own some fast Fords .

 

[logres]

If you only do the intake swap - it likely may not be worth it. Pair the better flowing intake with a better flowing exhaust and it will be very noticeable.

If you look at the Fastest Lincolns of Distinction thread, you will see ONE Gen2 Mark VIII that is listed in the 13s naturally aspirated. Guess what? It has(had) a Cobra intake and not that many additional mods.

The throttlebody and MAF are not required with the Cobra intake. Cams on a Mark VIII are not for a shadetree mechanic(your words, not mine).

The intake combined with exhaust(including headers), a chip or tune, gears and converter with supporting mods (driveshaft, traction-lock, fuel pump, tranny cooler, tires...) should put a good running Mark VIII in the 13s and it will be a blast to drive.


Max, you know I respect you and your opinions, but I can't agree with your statement. I do not have forced induction, weightloss or NOS.

Yeah, but you've spent more time and money on your Mark than most people would when adding boost!

 

[maxmk8]

I thought the Mach 1 /Cobra intake iis the same as the one in the Gen2 Mark 8 ? A guy that does tuning told me it's in the computer and exhaust , and to try and and get the heads and intake off a Gen2 Mark 8 . And he does own some fast Fords .

That "guy" is dead wrong. Even the Mach 1 is different from the Cobra.

 

[J]

That "guy" is dead wrong. Even the Mach 1 is different from the Cobra.

+2 The Mach 1 is WAY different than the Cobra. None of the Mustang intakes are the same as the Mark 8 intakes.

A Gen 2 intake is MORE restrictive then a Gen 1 intake. If you want to upgrade, put a Gen 1 intake on a Gen 2 engine.

Fred.........I'm gonna be the first to say this, but don't take it personal. PLEASE search before you post!! Then ask questions.

 

[bryantaylor]

Umm what about supporting mods like transmission cooler and tune? Diff plugs etc.

dont "have" to have a tune. and plugs and a cooler only add another $60 bucks or so.

 

[driller]

I don't know what a "j - mod or baumann" is, but I do understand the rest.

Go to www.tccoa.com and look in the tranny tech articles and read up on the 4R70W transmission and the J-mod. The Baumann shift kit is the only aftermarket shift kit I would consider.

So, I should keep this cobra intake I have and maybe get a new Mass air (lightning 90mm) and TB (cobra Twin 63mm) and also upgrade exhaust w/ headers? Does someone make a full exhaust for this car, or is it all custom?

Save your money and do not bother with the Mass Air and throttle body. Any competent exhaust shop can do a custom dual 2-1/2" with a single-X crossover and a pair of mufflers/tips of your choice. If you get the headers, the Kooks 3/4 length are the only bolt-on headers available for the Mark VIII. If you don't need cats, delete them. If you need cats to pass emmisions, get aftermarket ones.

I heard that a chip ( but i dont know what kind) is a good first step cuz it will firm up the shift points and help with the severely retarded factory timing as well as allow me to compensate for any gear / wheel diameter changes I make in the future. Is any of that true?

A chip is the best mod hands down. SCT is the best IMHO and we have a sponsor here that is top of the line when it comes to tuning a Mark VIII - Lonnie at Blue Oval Chips.

Is a trans cooler really necessary? What about this upgraded driveshaft before gears that I hear about?

Cooler? Absolutely. Driveshaft? 95% probable after the gears.

I thought the Mach 1 /Cobra intake iis the same as the one in the Gen2 Mark 8 ? A guy that does tuning told me it's in the computer and exhaust , and to try and and get the heads and intake off a Gen2 Mark 8 . And he does own some fast Fords .

Nope - only 3 intake manifolds fit the Mark VIII. The Gen1, the Gen2 and the '96-'98 Cobra. This is because the heads on the Mark VIII and '96-'98 Cobra were different from the following years Cobras and Mach 1s.

Yeah, but you've spent more time and money on your Mark than most people would when adding boost!

And I've had a blast doing so!

dont "have" to have a tune. and plugs and a cooler only add another $60 bucks or so.

The tune is pretty much mandatory with all but the mildest mods, especially gears. The plugs are optional with the agressiveness of the tune. The tranny cooler is a must as far as I'm concerned.

 

[SolipcisticSmile]

Thanks again for all of the advice. Most of you have been very helpful and have given me quite a lot to consider. I think that I will start with the SCT chip ( I sent a messsage to Lonnie, but as yet he hasn't responded) and will then do trans / gears / driveshaft. It seems to me that one should always do the mods to help the car live through the speed before adding the speed itself. Although I didn't always follow that advice in my younger years, I think that it would be the prudent choice now. Once my membership gets processed, I will post some pictures of my baby and keep all interested parties informed of my progress. I hope to be a active member in the LOD community if you will have me. To "J", I took no offense to your comment because I believe none was meant. However, it might be worthwhile to consider that many people, including myself, are inept at best when navigating this "information superhighway" and may not be able to adequately do something like "search" that someone of your obvious computer prowess might take for granted.

 

[XLRVIII]

Fred, dont sweat J.. feel free to ask ANY questions.
The only dumb question is the one you dont ask.

*sticks tounge out at J*

If you get a chip from Lonnie you'll likely be a happy camper.. Lonnie is good people.
Lonnie stays pretty busy, so dont get mad if you dont hear back from him for a day or two.
he get's pretty deeply wound up in making everything happen, sometimes "replying to an email" isn't in his "time budget" for the day.

 

[logres]

It seems to me that one should always do the mods to help the car live through the speed before adding the speed itself. Although I didn't always follow that advice in my younger years, I think that it would be the prudent choice now.

Most folks don't follow that philosophy.

Modding should go in this order:

1. Brakes (safety) (I spent ~$400 in new pads and rotors)
2. Suspension (safety) (I spent ~$1200 to rebuild front end, poly bushings everywhere, both sway bars, and lowered 1.5")
3. Drivetrain (reliability) (I spent ~$4000+ in a 700+hp rated tranny, special converter from Lonnie, Eaton posi)

THEN

4. Engine (TBD for me)

Most people neglect the brakes and suspension because they want to go fast NOW. Some regret it later. And some foolish ones don't even bother upgrading the drivetrain and go straight to the engine first.