check engine / running rough

BlackMark8 said:
yea, and that may be what i do next... but. I still want to run nitrous. So shouldnt i beef up the new engine first? just a little? to hold a little nitrous? - I dont want to have a 15 sec car again. So any suggestions?
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start out at a 50 shot and sneak to 75, then 100.
Paying particular attention to the spark plug in the #8 hole.

You also need to get very familiar with "reading the spark plugs" which doesnt mean look at the color of the white part of the plug.
PROPERLY reading spark plugs means "the plug you read" doesnt go back into the motor because you have to "CUT THE PLUG APART" to get a TRUE AND ACCURATE reading.

many people think "plug insulator color" means something, well... it does, but it doesnt show you if your lean or rich....

need to get a jewelers loop (magnifying glass) cut the plug apart and look at "ALL" the procelain and see if there are ANY black specs {which are peices of your piston}.

ANY black specs means you dont have enough fuel to cover the amount of nitrous you are running.. go back a step to the 75 shot, change the plugs and repeat.

When you get a good clean plug BACK OUT of the car, then you know your at the "correct nitrous level" for the amount of fuel you are putting in the motor.

ALSO.... detonation on nitrous will end your day.
not "valve rattling" level either, in-audible levels of detonation will end your day in a new york second when on the spray.

BABY STEPS, especially when your using a baby bottle to make power.. BABY STEPS.
50,75,100...testing and verifying your results at each power level increase.

hope this helps!
 
If your gonna play in the nitrous arena, then you need to get a good handle on your actual AF ratio.
That doesnt mean install one of them goofy light show useless AF guages that hook directly to your o2 sensor {those are useless)

IF you want to play, you have to PAY.
you need to put a REAL Wide Band 02 sensor in the car and monitor AF while on the spray.
Be prepared to spend in the neighborhood of 500.00 for a GOOD WB02.
again, you cant "cheap out" when it comes to nitrous you either CAN do it.. or you CANT DO IT.
If you cant afford a WB02 then you need to be happy with your 15 second car and consider other alternative (less critical) ways of getting your car out of the 15's.

I know you dont want to hear any of this, but it's the gospel truth.

performance aint cheap...
cheaping out on performance will only cost you more in time, labor and parts in the long run.. your at "step 1" of the long run.

hindsight... 600.00 worth of mods would have prevented this
100 for fuel pump
500 for WB02

granted that is how much a used motor costs, but installing a fuel pump and WB02 is far easier than R&Ring motors on a monthly basis.

Now.. I know most people dont have an extra 600.00 to throw at their cars..
Which is why I said you need to move BACK to the 50-75 shot until you can "address" these problem areas.

with an upgraded pump at a 100 shot, you could probably EEK by without WB02
(not recommended)
with the stock pump I wouldn't spray more than 75 shot on the motor without WB02

considering nitrous can easily be an 80.00 a weekend habit.. take a month or so "OFF" and put your "nitrous budget" into upgrades to your fuel pump and WB02..

Then you can happily spray 100 shot all day long and can sneak into the 125 shot range or possibly 150 shot IF you get a very very GOOD tune {another 400.00)
 
no no no, i DO want to hear this. Im loving the info you guys are giving me. I did put colder plugs in it and ever since i did that it went kapow. and when it did blow up in didnt make any horrible sounds it just started vibrating, but i know not #8 is gone.

Ok, so next motor gets tune, set back timing, plugs, fuel pump? that sound safe?
 
BlackMark8 said:
Ok, so next motor gets tune, set back timing, plugs, fuel pump? that sound safe?
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Sound good to me.

BlackMark8 said:
How about this car?? This car has no overdrive he says and a waterpump, i bet the waterpump is easy
http://orlando.craigslist.org/cto/881717207.html
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If it stays in 3rd, it could be something as simple as a bad TPS. The ECU thinks you have it floored so it won't upshift. Might be a far shot, but taking it for a drive and MANUALLY shifting it may share some secrets. :D
 
J said:
Sound good to me.



If it stays in 3rd, it could be something as simple as a bad TPS. The ECU thinks you have it floored so it won't upshift. . :D
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or as simple as a "Jmod" gone wrong, people lose OD alot of times, not knowing they fubard the OD band on reassembly.
 
BlackMark8 said:
. I did put colder plugs in it and ever since i did that it went kapow?
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Colder plugs will help prevent spark knock but it wont ELIMINATE spark knock if the fuel system isn't "keeping up".


Doubtful "putting" colder plugs caused the problem, likely the "damage was already done" before you put the colder plugs in.

If I were spraying my car I'd run 2 steps colder plug, like an AWSFA 12 C not the "22 c's".
32's are stock. 12's are two steps colder.

I run 22c's in my non spray motor and it "loves ignition timing"!
 
No...its NOT retarded, the richer it is the less likely it will PING or DETONATE and cause catastrophic failure, for example, your engine.
 
anything richer than about 12.5 and you are just wasteing gas. 10:1 is really too rich for a F/I car, much less a NA car. richer is not always better, washing the cyclinders causes major damage too.
 
10:1 is ONLY at WOT. Again, its a SAFETY feature man....at WOT you're concerned with saving gas?
 
i understand thats only at WOT, but its still WAY too rich for an all motor car. i can understand it being as rich as 12:1 for extra safety, but not 10:1.

on the saving gas subject, i mean anything richer than 12:1 is a waste, its no safer to run 10:1, you will just be wasting the extra gas you are pushing into the motor.
 
actually it would be interesting to see an AFR map and a timing map from our computers, anyone have that type of info handy?
 
Well, considering these have secondary intake valves that open up after 3250 rpms I'm going to assume the fuel table is set up that way for a reason but I get what you're saying.

**Correction to my post a couple up, I meant the original poster's engine not yours. :)
 
J said:
**Correction to my post a couple up, I meant the original poster's engine not yours. :)
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oh i understand man.

its just everything i read on tunning, and have done in tunning says 10:1 is a bad idea. hell, i only run 12-12.3 on my turbo car making about 3x the stock power and there is never any signs of knock.
 
well XLR viii this problem happend instantly "the damage was never present" until i raced that wrx on the street. THATS when the damage occured..

anyway, im going to go look at that car, hopefully it will be something nice untill i rebuld my lsc
 
bryantaylor said:
oh i understand man.

its just everything i read on tunning, and have done in tunning says 10:1 is a bad idea. hell, i only run 12-12.3 on my turbo car making about 3x the stock power and there is never any signs of knock.
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Turbo cars (if factory or built appropriately) have a different compression ratio then naturally aspirated cars, thats why you're running a different air/fuel ratio. You can't compare NA to forced when comparing air/fuel ratios, it doesn't work like that. UNLESS you slap a turbo on a non-turbo car, it will work, but as well as an engine BUILT for forced air.

BlackMark8 said:
well XLR viii this problem happend instantly "the damage was never present" until i raced that wrx on the street. THATS when the damage occured..
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You can't be 100% positive of this. Piston/cylinder scoring, partial ring failure, worn bearings, etc. can not be "felt" or noticed upon regular driving. The only way to know you didn't have damage is to tear down the engine and visually inspect. Even stock cars have "damage present" and they just continue to wear down and wear down until something fails. What you did just sped up that process.
 
J said:
Turbo cars (if factory or built appropriately) have a different compression ratio then naturally aspirated cars, thats why you're running a different air/fuel ratio. You can't compare NA to forced when comparing air/fuel ratios, it doesn't work like that. UNLESS you slap a turbo on a non-turbo car, it will work, but as well as an engine BUILT for forced air.
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huh? no matter what the compression ratio, you tune to aprx 13:1 NA and a tad richer F/I (12-12.5). if you try to run a NA afr tune on any turbo, stock or aftermarket, your blowing it up.
 
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