Looking for help with a vibration issue

97blklsc

Registered
Hey all,

I have posted a good bit on the "other" boards and have a similar thread going over there, but am in need of good advice and know there are some great minds at work over here as well.

Here's the rundown:

-I have a shuddering vibration that varies by speed, temperature, and the grade of the road (uphill/downhill)
-The vibration is generally worse in cooler temperatures, and is almost non-existent when the ambient temperature is above 85-90F.
-The vibration affects the entire vehicle and can be felt in the steering wheel, seat, and every other portion of the interior.
-The vibration, when it exists, is particularly bad when traveling between 60 MPH and 80+ MPH. At lower speeds it can be felt, but is not nearly as noticeable.
-The frequency varies with speed, and does not change (in frequency) when the car is engaged in a different gear. If I shut off OD, the vibration increases somewhat in amplitude but the freuency stays the same.
-The vibration is markedly worse when traveling even slightly uphill, especially when the engine is loaded but the transmission is not forced to shift (meaning that it stays in OD but throttle is increased to maintain speed). When traveling downhill, the vibration is generally worse when I let off the throttle.
-I have observed the steering wheel shaking vertically up and down when the shudder exists, rather than rotating side to side (such as when rotors are warped). When I have a beverage stored in the cupholder, the top of the container can be observed moving back and forth. The frequency of these movements matches what I feel in the rest of the car.
-The vibration exists with both sets of wheels/tires that I have for the car. The consist of 16" snowflake wheels with BFG Traction T/A 225/60/16 tires and 17" Cobra-R wheels with BFG G-Force T/A 255/50/17 tires.

So far, I have done the following to remedy the issue:
-Trans fluid has been changed to Mercon V, filter has been changed, and a 45k GVW trans cooler has been installed.
-The stock driveshaft was changed to a known-good '93 Mark shaft with brand new u-joints and a balance job. The missing spline in the yoke was aligned with the mark on the output shaft.
-Replaced front rotors/pads with brand new NAPA replacements.
-Replaced front hubs/bearings.
-Replaced front brake calipers.
-Replaced almost entire front end: lower control arms, upper control arms, strut rod bushings, outer tie rod ends.
-Four wheel alignment on a calibrated Hunter machine by an experienced tech in a Lincoln dealership.
-Tire air pressure has been maintained at several different pressures ranging from 28PSI to 32PSI. The best results have been achieved at 31PSI, but the shuddering has by no means gone away.

I have owned the car for about 10,000 miles. I changed the spark plugs, air filter, fuel filter and all fluids within the first 2,000 miles of ownership. The car has a very slightly rough idle in neutral but runs like a top when in gear and throughout the RPM range, and has plenty of power on tap when I need to pass on the highway etc. I do get a very occassional torque converted shudder, but it almost never happens now after all the work I've done. Is it possible for a miss to show up only in these conditions? The shudder certainly feels like it's somewhere in the drivetrain, and if changing/re-gapping the plugs will fix it then it'll be the first thing I do on Saturday morning. I only use Mobil/Shell/Sunoco for gas after a few bad run-ins with discount brands - never again will I use anthing else. I should also mention that I have checked nearly every bushing in the driveline and they are all in great shape - no cracking or splitting anywhere on the entire car.

I have checked all of the PCV/vacuum hoses, and they appear to be in pretty good shape. The two curved hoses that connect to the upper intake manifold are beginning to look cracked, but I have sprayed the area with starting fluid in the past to check for leaks and had a negative result. When I changed the spark plugs I did notice a bit of oil on a few of the coil boots, though not enough to flood the spark plug. A few of the boots also had a brownish residue on them, which I chalked up to the oil leaks. All of the boots are in great shape though, absolutely no cracking whatsoever. You've got me wondering how much of a difference I'd see if I changed out the coils, though that's more expensive than I can afford to "try" at this point.

The other thing that sticks out to me is that the vibration does not just exist upon acceleration, but also during downhill coasting. This (to me) would appear to rule out a slight miss but perhaps I am wrong. Another note of importance: I have never, ever experienced a Check Engine light in this car.

Thanks for any help you can provide.

-Domenic
 
The tranny mounts are definitely all set, as they haven't got a single crack nor any evidence of drying/rotting. I'd like to pretend for now that engine mounts do not exist, because I know how much of a PITA they are to replace. Looks like I might have to borrow the neighbor's engine hoist, eh? Thanks for the thoughts, keep 'em coming...

-Dom
 
Yeah there is a way to check them, it needs 2 people to try it, but you have to have someone put the car in gear and try and rev it alittle to see if the engine shakes at all.
 
Alright, I did that with my TBird simply to confirm the fact that they were shot, I guess the only reason I haven't done it with this car is that I'm afraid of the result. Bad engine mounts would definitely account for the temperature-sensitive nature of the vibration, and the fact that it only happens under load or coasting down hills. Good thing I have a set of the solid rubber ones sitting around...I'll check it this weekend. Anybody else have a miracle success story they want to share...that doesn't have to do with the engine mounts?
 
Ok... *holds breath* this is one of the main reasons I sold my Mark VIII.

These cars are VERY vibration prone.

I had :

New tires and wheels balanced on a road force balancer (you may want to give that a shot. The machine is called Hunter 9700 I believe) 3x.
MMX Drive shaft
New hubs/rotors/brakes all around
43-50k miles on the car.

And it would vibrate... and it drove me insane, granted it wasn't a very big vibration and it was mostly felt when heading up-hill under light throttle on the freeway.
 
VERY vibration prone wouldn't begin to describe it. More like: it's gonna vibrate until you run out of money trying to fix it and can't afford gas OR sell the damn thing.

But, I haven't yet given up hope. Actually, today was a particularly good day for my car, and I definitely made some progress with the vibration.

I got up early this morning and spent a few hours installing 13" KVR rotors and brand new PBR/Cobra calipers. While they did make a huge improvement, I should make a note about the stock calipers before I go any further. It seems as though the slides on my LH caliper were somewhat frozen, as the caliper barely moves with pressure applied by hand. This doesn't make much sense to me since I replaced the front calipers about 6,000 miles ago with brand new ones that had well-lubricated slides. On the other hand, it does definitely explain a lot: the front rotors were definitely warped, so it seems that the sticking caliper was holding tightly to a warped rotor which definitely added to the vibration.

My drive to work this afternoon was marked by a sense of relief and renewed confidence in the car, as the brake upgrade made a huge difference in the overall feeling of control while driving. Very little pedal force is needed to bring the car to a stop, and slowing for exits on the highway from 80MPH no longer necessitates both hands being on the wheel. The shuddering I've been explaining seems to have decreased slightly, and I'm guessing that's because there is less drag on the drivetrain (with the sticking caliper out) and therefore less load to exaggerate the problem.

What did become quite a bit more obvious today was the fact that the driveshaft is a serious concern. At any speed over 80MPH, the car feels like a vibrating massage chair and it sounds like my subwoofer is playing a ~80Hz tone at about 120dB. As I wrote above I installed what I thought was a known-good '93 shaft with new u-joints, but it doesn't seem like it helped very much if at all. Is it possible that the driveshaft vibration could be caused by a bad pinion bearing rather than the driveshaft resonance in and of itself? I'll let this stew before writing anything else.

-Dom
 
As I wrote above I installed what I thought was a known-good '93 shaft with new u-joints, but it doesn't seem like it helped very much if at all. Is it possible that the driveshaft vibration could be caused by a bad pinion bearing rather than the driveshaft resonance in and of itself?

A bad pinion bearing usually will manifest itself with a very loud howling from the rear end caused by misalignment with the ring gear.

If you only thought the '93 shaft was good, there is a distinct chance it is concern. Have you tried re-indexing the driveshaft at the pinion flange?
 
The sound I'm hearing at this point is more of a hum than a howl, but I definitely won't rule anything out that hasn't been triple checked and/or replaced. I can try re-indexing the shaft this weekend; do you suggest rotating it one hole at a time (90 degrees per turn) or trying the full opposite mounting position (180 degrees)? There is a very small amount of drivetrain "slop" that I always chalked up to the age/mileage of the ring and pinion assembly (93,000 miles). Perhaps I'm feeling play in the pinion bearing instead? Thanks for the suggestions...they match what I've been getting from another reputable source. I'll let you know how I make out.

-Dom
 
I can try re-indexing the shaft this weekend; do you suggest rotating it one hole at a time (90 degrees per turn) or trying the full opposite mounting position (180 degrees)?

Here is the procedure from the manual...

Driveshaft Indexing Procedure

The first check to be performed when driveshaft vibration is suspected is re-indexing the driveshaft at both the rear axle and transmission.

A vibration free driveline can result from the driveshaft indexing procedure when minor driveshaft imbalance is cancelled by minor system runouts.

1. Raise vehicle on hoist. Refer to «Section 00-02». Remove rear wheel and tire assemblies and rear rotor assemblies. Place floor stands under suspension arms to support rear of vehicle. Note or mark indexing of driveshaft to transmission and axle companion flange.

2. Mark one hole position on driveshaft yoke at rear of driveshaft with the letter A and the eight circular flange holes (starting with the mating hole with driveshaft position A) from one through eight. Position A-1 is considered the original index position.

3. Disconnect driveshaft, re-index 180 degrees at axle position A-5. Check for vibration at road test speed. If vibration is still present, evaluate positions A-3 and A-7.

4. If further improvement is desired, evaluate remaining positions that are located between the best of the two previous positions, A-3 and A-7. If vehicle tests satisfactorily at any point during this procedure, do not proceed with any further steps.

NOTE:
Check universal joints for binding during first re-indexing.

5. If re-indexing at axle is unsuccessful, disconnect the driveshaft , re-index 180 degrees at transmission only and connect. Check for vibration at road test speed. If vehicle tests satisfactorily, do not proceed with any further steps.

NOTE:
Remove driveshaft from vehicle and manipulate universal joints in each direction of rotation. If a universal joint feels stiff or has a "lumpy", "gritty" feel in any direction, replace universal joints.

6. If re-indexing at both axle and transmission is unsuccessful, refer to «Driveshaft Balance Diagnosis» as outlined.

NOTE:
Original equipment driveshaft-to-axle companion flange retaining bolts (N-800594-S100) are Loctite coated and do not require a lockwasher. If these bolts are removed, they may be installed, if additional Loctite is applied. New and used bolts must be tightened to 95-129 N-m (70-95 lb-ft).

I hope you are pleasantly suprised. :)
 
I think I was more content with the thought of replacing the motor mounts...

Thank you for posting that, Driller. No really, I appreciate it. :)

I'll be sure to remember this when I'm installing the 4" driveshaft I'm very tempted to order...

Another weekend spent working on the Mark...joy!

Thanks Driller, and everyone...

-Dom
 
Just wanted to add in a little something now that I've just driven home from work and had a chance to get a feel for the car with the new brakes:

This car is still a piece of ****.

How is it that this vehicle with a near perfect drivetrain can vibrate worse than a Kia with 200,000 miles on it? Honestly, I won't feel the least bit bad if Ford or GM go under...we're all driving perfect examples of the reasons why it would happen. $40,000 TEN YEARS AGO for a defective POS? I'd be surprised to find something as intelligent as a silverback gorilla in the design team for the FN-10/MN-12 chassis.

I've had it. Just needed to vent. *^%^*%*^%*&^**&%$&*. Ok done.

-Dom
 
Just wanted to add in a little something now that I've just driven home from work and had a chance to get a feel for the car with the new brakes:

This car is still a piece of ****.

How is it that this vehicle with a near perfect drivetrain can vibrate worse than a Kia with 200,000 miles on it? Honestly, I won't feel the least bit bad if Ford or GM go under...we're all driving perfect examples of the reasons why it would happen. $40,000 TEN YEARS AGO for a defective POS? I'd be surprised to find something as intelligent as a silverback gorilla in the design team for the FN-10/MN-12 chassis.

I've had it. Just needed to vent. *^%^*%*^%*&^**&%$&*. Ok done.

-Dom


I hear ya 100%... All those chassis vibrate... I have had a 200k $2100 BMW that didn't vibrate... my jeep doesn't vibrate, crown vic doesn't either.
Every T-Bird and Mark VIII that I have been in does...

Some get used to it after some time... That is all I can say...

Honestly though if you were to throw more money at the car I would start with the driveshaft. Take it to a good shop and get it indexed and balanced...
 
Alright guys, here's the latest:

I got under the car again yesterday and indexed the driveshaft at the pinion, turning it 180 degrees and re-attaching it. So far the vibration actually seems to have gotten slightly better, and only comes on strong at 85ish MPH. I don't drive much faster than that 99% of the time so I have no idea what it's like at speeds above 85 - my daily commute to/from work takes place between 75-80 MPH. I did a thorough visual and physical check of everything else while I was under there, and noticed the following:

-No play whatsoever in the pinion bearing, nor any abnormal noises when the drivetrain is spinning equivalent to 15 MPH.
-There was some up/down slop in the halfshafts where they meet the diff., say about 1/32 of an inch or less. I figured this is normal when there is no load on the drivetrain and the shafts are at such an extreme angle (the car was in the air).
-The transmission crossmember bushings have just a slight amount of cracking, but are in good condition otherwise. The bolts that hold them in appeared as if they had backed out away from the bushing washer by 1/8 inch, so I grabbed a wrench and was able to tighten them about three turns on each side.
-I grabbed the end of the driveshaft to check play in the output shaft/yoke bearing, and found about 1/16 total play there. I think this is on the upper end of normal, but feel free to chime in about this.
-I also grabbed the end of the driveshaft and tranny tailstock and checked up/down movement by pushing upwards on it. By doing this I was able to detect about 1/2 inch total movement, though it was hard to tell because I was also benchpressing the car at the same time for some exercise :)

I've only put on about 10 highway miles this weekend but did notice a slight improvement all around, although that might be due to the warm weather (85 here now) and temperature sensitive nature of the problem. I'll post again tomorrow night with my results after commuting to/from work. Thanks again for all your help.

-Dom
 
-I grabbed the end of the driveshaft to check play in the output shaft/yoke bearing, and found about 1/16 total play there. I think this is on the upper end of normal, but feel free to chime in about this.
-I also grabbed the end of the driveshaft and tranny tailstock and checked up/down movement by pushing upwards on it. By doing this I was able to detect about 1/2 inch total movement, though it was hard to tell because I was also benchpressing the car at the same time for some exercise :)

Both ends sound extreme to me as far as vertical movement, particularly the DS at the tailshaft. A 1/2" 'slop' is a LOT. You may not have felt near as much at the differential end if the other end wasn't so sloppy. Just my opinion, but I would have a new driveshaft tail bushing installed if you decide to get a new driveshaft.
 
Driller-
I should have been more specific. The 1/2" play was the entire transmission, not the output shaft itself. I was checking the integrity of the tranny mount; the only reason I grabbed the driveshaft was to gain more leverage.

The output shaft itself, as I said, seems to exhibit about 1/16" total movement. If/when the driveshaft gets replaced, I'll likely do the bushing or an entirely new tailshaft w/force lube mod.

More money, hopefully no more problems...
 
Here is my current state of mind with the issue at hand:

-The root cause of the problem appears to be wear and tear in the drivetrain, specifically the tailshaft housing bushing.

-This "slop" is being amplified significantly by (visually confirmed) out-of-spec engine mounts. The LH side of the engine moves up from normal position by at least 1.5" when I hold the car stationary with the brakes and apply throttle in drive. There is much less play in reverse.

-As Littlehorn mentioned, the transmission mount appears to be softer and have more "give" than normal.

-The pinion angle becomes more and more misaligned as the engine moves under throttle because of the "broken" engine mounts and soft transmission mount. This therefore contributes to vibrations and (I believe) may manifest itself as what many would normally consider driveshaft resonance.

So, here is my plan of action:

-Replace the motor mounts with solid rubber aftermarket replacements. I already have these from my prior vehicle, a '94 TBird that I never did the job on.

-Do some research on a viable better-than-stock replacement transmission mount.

-Replace the tailshaft housing bushing, or perhaps the entire tailshaft housing itself with a pre-modded one from Lonnie w/force lube mod.

Questions about the preceding:

-Does anyone have any "magic tricks" for replacing the engine mounts? I plan on dropping the K-Member and supporting the engine with an engine lift, but am (wide) open to suggestions that will make the job easier and/or less time consuming.

-What size are the K-Member bolts, E-22 perhaps?

-Is it possible to remove the tailshaft housing with the stock exhaust in place? The third cat. converter appears to block most access to that area, so if it needs to be dropped I might need to sob for a little while.

Thanks again for all your help,

-Domenic
 
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While it sounds like you may very well be on your way to getting your vibration repaired, I wonder if there might have been an easier way to diagnose the problem. One possibility for a speedier (or more accurate) diagnosis could be available to you.
Here's what I am thinking:
During the mid-to-late 1990's, Ford offered its dealers a vibration analyzer device. What this device did was measure the frequency of the vibrations in a vehicle. Once the technician knew the frequency at which the offending vibration occured, figuring out the source of the vibration was easy. Apparently, vibrations in certain ranges HAD to be caused by certain systems. For example (these are not the real numbers - example only!) vibrations that measured 120 hertz could only be caused by a wheel/tire concern. Vibrations at 30-40 hertz could only be caused by a driveshaft vibration.
I worked at a Ford dealer that had purchased one of these devices and it was very under-utilized, but seemed like an amazing tool. I also worked at a Chrysler dealer and the same type of device was available, but had to be brought and used by the district representative - the dealership did not own it.
My suggestion would be to use the relationship you have built with your local Lincoln dealer (through parts purchases or whatever) and see if they would be willing to lend you a hand here.
I would think that a dealer that looks like it is serious about fixing cars would be most likely to have purchased this device. One word of caution - I would guess that the device does not get much use and that many technicians are not skilled in using it.
Of course, it looks like you have found the source of your vibration, so maybe this is all moot. But perhaps it could help someone else on this forum.
Have a good day!
 
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