Neutral Out Condition

KStromberg said:
He was not recommended by anyone, but I do know he is highly respected over at TCCOA. His name is Dave Dahlke and he has been doing tunes for Bill Evanhoff for the last 3 years. What leads you to believe that a mistake was made as far as the tuner? I have already determined that this problem is not related to a tuning issue in any way. Even Alan over at Dirty Dog performance who built the transmission and rear end for our own "driller" told me that he has never seen a neutral-out condition caused by a tuning issue.
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Oops, sorry bout that, I guess I thought that the tranny guy did all the work on your car including the tune.
 
The EPC solenoid. Electronic Pressure Control... it's what the PCM (and chip) modulate for increased pressure during shifts.
 
driller said:
It's pretty much right there when you drop the pan.
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I have a drilled separator plate in the valve body. Does this change anything? Will I have to remove the separator plate to get to it? Do I need to worry about check balls falling out of the valve body if I am doing this solenoid swap? Do I have to disconnect any electronics?

Sorry to ask so many questions. Just want to be sure. :D
 
driller said:
It's pretty much right there when you drop the pan.
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Upon further investigation, it sounds like this solenoid you are referring to is underneath some linkage and stuff. I sure don't want to screw anything up. What about replacing the TCC solenoid, shift solenoid pack, and wiring harness in the valve body? After all, if it isn't an internal issue, these are some options that are still left. If it's not a mechanical issue, it's electrical I would sure think. My buddy thinks it may be the Torque Converter Clutch solenoid seeing that this issue can be overridden by turning off the o/d with the button until I am past lock-up speed. Whaddya think?
 
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KStromberg said:
I have a drilled separator plate in the valve body. Does this change anything? Will I have to remove the separator plate to get to it? Do I need to worry about check balls falling out of the valve body if I am doing this solenoid swap? Do I have to disconnect any electronics?

Sorry to ask so many questions. Just want to be sure. :D
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I'd need to review the manual, but I'm fairly confident the valve body does not need removed to replace any solenoids. You have the newer style with the flexible PCB harness versus the older (mine) with the conventional wiring harness. Based on that there wouldn't be an issue with the separator plate or check balls from the valve body.
 
I would not recommend just throwing parts at the problem. There are resistance checks and diagnostics for the solenoids.

KStromberg said:
My buddy thinks it may be the Torque Converter Clutch solenoid seeing that this issue can be overridden by turning off the o/d with the button until I am past lock-up speed. Whaddya think?
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I do not think the TCC solenoid is the issue. It appears to be a shift issue at low load/rpms. The reason it doesn't do it at harder throttle is because the shift schedule is different at higher load/rpms and tps input. There are quite a few parameters used to determine shifts. Your issue appears to be at a low tps input with a low load and rpms?
 
driller said:
I would not recommend just throwing parts at the problem. There are resistance checks and diagnostics for the solenoids.



I do not think the TCC solenoid is the issue. It appears to be a shift issue at low load/rpms. The reason it doesn't do it at harder throttle is because the shift schedule is different at higher load/rpms and tps input. There are quite a few parameters used to determine shifts. Your issue appears to be at a low tps input with a low load and rpms?
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It is to the point really where I don't wanna drive it like this. Getting this guy to fix his problem is a task in and of itself. I just wanna be done with it and eliminate everything valve-body wise. I can get all the components including the harness with plastic circuit board for a great $140 deal from a tranny parts place local here.

If this installer guy wants to test each and every part, so be it, which is what he should do, but like I said, getting this lame-brain to do it may be easier said than done.

The chip will be back next week with the shifts firmed up. At that point, with the changed tune and all electrical components replaced in the valve body, I can without a doubt say that if the problem still persists, the tranny is bad.

If these parts were at dealer cost, then yes, I would be more apprehensive. It is also quite interesting to me that he used the original electrical out of my old tranny. That seemed to shift sloppy just like this one. Makes me think there is a link here.
 
KStromberg said:
It is also quite interesting to me that he used the original electrical out of my old tranny. That seemed to shift sloppy just like this one. Makes me think there is a link here.
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Actually it is usually good practice to re-use sensors, etc... From a known working engine or tranny than to use unknown ones unless they are new.
 
KStromberg said:
Wouldn't this be an issue at all shifts if this solenoid was the culprit?
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Not necessarily, the shift is a function of the valve body, passages and accumulator in addition to hydraulic flow and pressure from the solenoids. The EPC solenoid is a modulated solenoid that is controlled by the PCM to moderate pressure which is supplied to the appropriate shift solenoids, accumulators and clutches.
 
Ok, gotcha man. ;) I think I got Brian to commit to putting in another trans cooler tomorrow. I'm bringing 7 quarts of Merc 5 and the solenoids and I'm just gonna drop it in his lap. :rolleyes:
 
Ok, now I am nervous. The shift solenoids, tcc solenoid, and ecp solenoid were replaced along with the harness. The condition STILL exists. I am going to be on the phone with the tuner tomorrow and hope to resolve this issue in the tune. :(
 
I am posting this here because I am wondering if it is related to this issue. Maybe, maybe not. I was sitting in rush hour traffic at the light this morning and all of a sudden my car was revving high, like 1500 rpm or better. When I took my foot off the brake slowly, the car wanted to drive forward.:eek: Now, if i recall correctly, i put the car in neutral and let off the brake and it seemed that it still wanted to move. Seeing as I was behind another vehicle, then was not the time to troubleshoot so I held my foot firmly on the brake as she revved very high. Then all of a sudden, it kicked back down to normal idle and all was well. :confused:
 
Have you adjusted the MLPS yet (from your other thread)? I would do that first, it's easy.

It sounds like you might have trouble with your IACV also.
 
billcu said:
Have you adjusted the MLPS yet (from your other thread)? I would do that first, it's easy.

It sounds like you might have trouble with your IACV also.
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I think the MLP is fine. The next morning i started it in neutral no problem and I have reverse lights. I am guessing it didn't want to start in neutral that one time because I was still rolling? :confused:

I have to check the codes once again. I cleaned out the IAC this last weekend and it seemed to make some surging go away that I think was attributed to the valve because the last time I checked I had a code for it which is what prompted my cleaning. Sometimes those darn things have to be replaced though regardless. We'll see.
 
Wirelessly posted (BlackBerry9700/5.0.0.405 Profile/MIDP-2.1 Configuration/CLDC-1.1 VendorID/102)

You really need to datalog the car to find out what's going on. Something is not right and it may be one of many things.
 
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