What the data log did prove to me, the stock Mark temp gauge can fluctuate at least 40* and you would never notice the needle move at all from the center position.
QUOTE]
I knew that Gen 2 temp gage was useless, now you have data to prove it.
The Mark's Cooling Fan Mods
- Thread starter mlschultz
- Start date
Good idea, JP. I was thinking of going over to the stereo shop and see if they could come up with something.
Here is a link to the owners manual, Jeremi. It goes into detail what the device will do, and what you can monitor. The unit plugs directly into the OBD2 port via cable, and I did not see any way to plug in a external sensor directly into the unit. The unit is 3 3/8" x 2 1/8" x 1/2".
There were 30 something items to select from to display from the Ford computer. I selected these 6 to start with, and they are assignable - A = Engine Temp, B = RPM, C = Timing Advance, etc. I can pick and choose and arrange them in any order on the display by changing the letter assignment. A is always top left, B is always top right, C is always middle left, etc.
It has like three pages that it will alternate between if you need to monitor more. I locked it to just show the page in my picture. That is all I need for now.
I was thinking of going over to the stereo shop and see if they could come up with something. Here is a link to the owners manual, Jeremi. It goes into detail what the device will do, and what you can monitor. The unit plugs directly into the OBD2 port via cable, and I did not see any way to plug in a external sensor directly into the unit. The unit is 3 3/8" x 2 1/8" x 1/2".
There were 30 something items to select from to display from the Ford computer. I selected these 6 to start with, and they are assignable - A = Engine Temp, B = RPM, C = Timing Advance, etc. I can pick and choose and arrange them in any order on the display by changing the letter assignment. A is always top left, B is always top right, C is always middle left, etc.
It has like three pages that it will alternate between if you need to monitor more. I locked it to just show the page in my picture. That is all I need for now.
That OBD2 gauge is awesome. Glad I bought it. Weird thing about it, the MPH signal reading must be coming from the transmission. I have 410's, and the MPH is always faster than my speedo (reads from ABS wheel sensor) and my navigation GPS.
Took The Mark out for the first time since the coolant exchange last night. Drove it to Atlanta for dinner - about 20 miles on the interstate, mixed with around 7 miles of stop and go side streets. I had the heater set on 70*. A/C was off.
Starting from the house, driving maybe 5 miles to the interstate, the temps stayed below 200*. Driving on the interstate 65-70, the temps slowly climbed from 200 - 215. Once off the interstate, it started to climb faster while in stop and go traffic, and did so all the way to the restaurant. When I parked it, it was at 240* - 3/4 the way up on the factory gauge.
Same situation on the way home, without the traffic, but parked the car in the garage with it reading 244*. I popped the hood to see if it would help cool it down any while it idled in the garage, but it did not help it any. From what I have researched, I have nothing to worry about with these temps using Evans coolant, but just wait until I turn the A/C on
I am not sure, but moving more air across the radiator might not fix my problem. I'm starting to think the Ford Racing Cobra radiator is not up to the challenge, and the next thing on my list should be a bigger radiator and possibly removing the thermostat. Griffin and Fluidyne both make a 2 row core radiator that might do the trick. Fluidyne says their upper 600 hp range radiator is 1 1/4" thicker than a stock Cobra radiator. I don't think there is a inch to spare with the set-up I have though.
Weird thing about it, the MPH signal reading must be coming from the transmission. I have 410's, and the MPH is always faster than my speedo (reads from ABS wheel sensor) and my navigation GPS. Took The Mark out for the first time since the coolant exchange last night. Drove it to Atlanta for dinner - about 20 miles on the interstate, mixed with around 7 miles of stop and go side streets. I had the heater set on 70*. A/C was off.
Starting from the house, driving maybe 5 miles to the interstate, the temps stayed below 200*. Driving on the interstate 65-70, the temps slowly climbed from 200 - 215. Once off the interstate, it started to climb faster while in stop and go traffic, and did so all the way to the restaurant. When I parked it, it was at 240* - 3/4 the way up on the factory gauge.
Same situation on the way home, without the traffic, but parked the car in the garage with it reading 244*. I popped the hood to see if it would help cool it down any while it idled in the garage, but it did not help it any. From what I have researched, I have nothing to worry about with these temps using Evans coolant, but just wait until I turn the A/C on
I am not sure, but moving more air across the radiator might not fix my problem. I'm starting to think the Ford Racing Cobra radiator is not up to the challenge, and the next thing on my list should be a bigger radiator and possibly removing the thermostat. Griffin and Fluidyne both make a 2 row core radiator that might do the trick. Fluidyne says their upper 600 hp range radiator is 1 1/4" thicker than a stock Cobra radiator. I don't think there is a inch to spare with the set-up I have though.
I do not think they drilled any holes in the 160* t-stat that is in the car now, Charlie. Here is an excerpt from the Evans Instruction Manual:
Thermostat and thermostat bypass hoses
With “Waterless” Coolants the thermostat is not needed in Hi performance systems, or for warm weather
application. For cold weather applications or computer controlled engines install a Evans High Flow or Evans
total flow thermostat of the proper temperature. Systems that use bypass type thermostat must plug the
bypass port when removing the thermostat. Large suction (inlet) side bypass thermostats can bypass small
quantities of coolant due to the higher suction pressures created by the pump. This could result in slightly
higher operating temperatures. To correct - install the Evans total flow thermostat in the upper (pressure)
hose.
The bypass hose connects the intake manifold with the water pump suction side, BB Chevy, SB&BB Ford, SB
MOPAR all use a thermostat bypass hose that is unnecessary for HIGH PERFORMANCE use. Plugging the bypass
hose forces all the coolant to flow though the radiator. The plug should be made of metal and large enough to
seal the ID of the hose. Pipe plugs can be used to eliminate the hose completely.
CAUTION: After blocking the bypass circuit, only the specially designed EVANS Hi Flow or Total Flow
Thermostat should be used or engine damage may occur.
For leak problems, Bars Leak Tablets or AlumiSeal are the only approved stop leak product for “Waterless”
Coolants. Evans STOPLEAK Tablets are also available.
When using a coolant pump other than an Evans pump the weep hole must be plugged.
It is possible for air to be drawn in to the pump through the weep hole and passed the bearing shaft seal. A
small pipe plug or silicone will do the job.
Use of a 7 lb. cap on “waterless” system is recommended for racing, street rod and performance enhanced
vehicles. For applications where 7 lb. cap is not available, standard cap may be used. All stock – factory original
computer controlled daily driven vehicles are coolant change only – no system changes are required.
Hi Performance Suggestions
Install hi performance aluminum tube radiator.
Remove the thermostat and plug all bypass hoses.
Install heater shut off valve.
Increase the pump drive ratio with a smaller pump pulley.
Maximizing Racing Systems
Convert the upper hose and thermostat housing to 1 3/4”OD.
Two -16 AN lines minimum upper hose size.
Install external lines from the rear of the manifold, bigger is better, line size should be -12 AN.
For intake manifold fill location use #E3340 Expansion tank.
Use maximum pump drive ratio possible 80% of crank rpm or more.
For safety reasons all overflow hoses must be connected to an overflow tank or catch can.
Thermostat and thermostat bypass hoses
With “Waterless” Coolants the thermostat is not needed in Hi performance systems, or for warm weather
application. For cold weather applications or computer controlled engines install a Evans High Flow or Evans
total flow thermostat of the proper temperature. Systems that use bypass type thermostat must plug the
bypass port when removing the thermostat. Large suction (inlet) side bypass thermostats can bypass small
quantities of coolant due to the higher suction pressures created by the pump. This could result in slightly
higher operating temperatures. To correct - install the Evans total flow thermostat in the upper (pressure)
hose.
The bypass hose connects the intake manifold with the water pump suction side, BB Chevy, SB&BB Ford, SB
MOPAR all use a thermostat bypass hose that is unnecessary for HIGH PERFORMANCE use. Plugging the bypass
hose forces all the coolant to flow though the radiator. The plug should be made of metal and large enough to
seal the ID of the hose. Pipe plugs can be used to eliminate the hose completely.
CAUTION: After blocking the bypass circuit, only the specially designed EVANS Hi Flow or Total Flow
Thermostat should be used or engine damage may occur.
For leak problems, Bars Leak Tablets or AlumiSeal are the only approved stop leak product for “Waterless”
Coolants. Evans STOPLEAK Tablets are also available.
When using a coolant pump other than an Evans pump the weep hole must be plugged.
It is possible for air to be drawn in to the pump through the weep hole and passed the bearing shaft seal. A
small pipe plug or silicone will do the job.
Use of a 7 lb. cap on “waterless” system is recommended for racing, street rod and performance enhanced
vehicles. For applications where 7 lb. cap is not available, standard cap may be used. All stock – factory original
computer controlled daily driven vehicles are coolant change only – no system changes are required.
Hi Performance Suggestions
Install hi performance aluminum tube radiator.
Remove the thermostat and plug all bypass hoses.
Install heater shut off valve.
Increase the pump drive ratio with a smaller pump pulley.
Maximizing Racing Systems
Convert the upper hose and thermostat housing to 1 3/4”OD.
Two -16 AN lines minimum upper hose size.
Install external lines from the rear of the manifold, bigger is better, line size should be -12 AN.
For intake manifold fill location use #E3340 Expansion tank.
Use maximum pump drive ratio possible 80% of crank rpm or more.
For safety reasons all overflow hoses must be connected to an overflow tank or catch can.
Very true, Charlie! After this last mod, I am over $2k in cooling system changes on The Mark since the new motor was put in to save running the a/c. Wendy is not happy about that, and is at the point of suggesting I put a fork in it and leave the windows rolled down.
lol I am tired of dealing with cooling systems. I just finished last week replacing the radiator, all hoses, and serp belt with OEM Mercedes parts for the SL. The car is a 96, and had all the original parts on the car. The radiator had begun to have pin hole leaks in the plastic side tanks, so I decided to replace everything since it all was 15 years old. Everything had to be ordered from the Mercedes dealer (except I was able to find a OEM Behr radiator online with free shipping for a couple hundred less than the dealer). None of the auto parts stores around here carry MB parts for my car. In fact, there are only 9 upper radiator hoses in the entire USA for my car searching the MB parts database. I did all the work myself on this one, and it came in at $700 in just parts, and a sore back for 2 days afterwards lol
After this last mod, I am over $2k in cooling system changes on The Mark since the new motor was put in to save running the a/c. Wendy is not happy about that, and is at the point of suggesting I put a fork in it and leave the windows rolled down. lol I am tired of dealing with cooling systems. I just finished last week replacing the radiator, all hoses, and serp belt with OEM Mercedes parts for the SL. The car is a 96, and had all the original parts on the car. The radiator had begun to have pin hole leaks in the plastic side tanks, so I decided to replace everything since it all was 15 years old. Everything had to be ordered from the Mercedes dealer (except I was able to find a OEM Behr radiator online with free shipping for a couple hundred less than the dealer). None of the auto parts stores around here carry MB parts for my car. In fact, there are only 9 upper radiator hoses in the entire USA for my car searching the MB parts database. I did all the work myself on this one, and it came in at $700 in just parts, and a sore back for 2 days afterwards lol
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I made an appointment today with Ryan to have them remove the thermostat and to re-wire the two spal pusher fans to turn on when the main radiator pull fan turns on. Currently, the spal fans are triggered to turn on only when the a/c compressor turns on.
This will be the last planned cooling system mod for this year. I am going to monitor and evaluate over the summer, and see where I am at before any more changes are made.
Should be done by the 29th of this month. Stay tuned...
This will be the last planned cooling system mod for this year. I am going to monitor and evaluate over the summer, and see where I am at before any more changes are made.
Should be done by the 29th of this month. Stay tuned...
OK, I had to cancel these plans last month, as I almost went back to retired 30 year IBM employee status when IBM did not renew my now IBM contractor status Purchase Order.
Luckly, my contract was just approved, and renewed, so my hobby is back on track for at least the rest of this year! lol Don't tell Wendy though... I told her I was done spending money on that car!
Anyway, the plan is still the same - to remove the t-stat completely, and wire the Spal push fans to trigger on when the main pull fan turns on.
I dropped the car off today, and it should be done by tomorrow.
The car seems to be predictable with the temps - with A/C on or off, stop and go, interstate speed, the temps end up in the 220-245 range when I finally park the car.
I hope these latest mods get it down 10-20 degrees.
Next on the list if it doesn't cool it down is one of John Temples custom bumpers! I hope that bumper would allow room to unstack some of the coolers in front of the radiator, and improve air flow across them.
Luckly, my contract was just approved, and renewed, so my hobby is back on track for at least the rest of this year!
lol Don't tell Wendy though... I told her I was done spending money on that car! Anyway, the plan is still the same - to remove the t-stat completely, and wire the Spal push fans to trigger on when the main pull fan turns on.
I dropped the car off today, and it should be done by tomorrow.
The car seems to be predictable with the temps - with A/C on or off, stop and go, interstate speed, the temps end up in the 220-245 range when I finally park the car.
I hope these latest mods get it down 10-20 degrees.
Next on the list if it doesn't cool it down is one of John Temples custom bumpers! I hope that bumper would allow room to unstack some of the coolers in front of the radiator, and improve air flow across them.
Next on the list if it doesn't cool it down is one of John Temples custom bumpers! I hope that bumper would allow room to unstack some of the coolers in front of the radiator, and improve air flow across them.
If I had The Mark, that bumper would be a must have.
So, what happened?
lol Well, That didn't work Got the check coolant warning on the message center at 248 degrees just driving the car around town. It was at 250 when I parked it in the garage.
No steam or boil over. The car was running normal in fact. I did not notice anything out of the ordinary, other than the factory needle is pegged on hot at 250 degrees
It was around 79-80 degrees out today. I had the windows down, an the a/c off. I am going to wait and see what happens with John's bumper, and then decide if I am going to continue running the Evans coolant, or switch back to green coolant. I am not convinced the bumper is going to make a difference yet.
This has already been a real expensive experiment, and I am at the point of cutting my losses on the Evans, and just get a bigger radiator and go back to the green coolant.
Got the check coolant warning on the message center at 248 degrees just driving the car around town. It was at 250 when I parked it in the garage. No steam or boil over. The car was running normal in fact. I did not notice anything out of the ordinary, other than the factory needle is pegged on hot at 250 degrees
It was around 79-80 degrees out today. I had the windows down, an the a/c off. I am going to wait and see what happens with John's bumper, and then decide if I am going to continue running the Evans coolant, or switch back to green coolant. I am not convinced the bumper is going to make a difference yet.
This has already been a real expensive experiment, and I am at the point of cutting my losses on the Evans, and just get a bigger radiator and go back to the green coolant.
Mike, I was thinking...
I have long thought the Mark VIII (like many production cars) has a marginal cooling system. I say this because I know with all the mods done to my '93 I have noticed that it doesn't take much more "load" to see an increase in operating temps.
I'm not sure of the details, but 4.6L Cobras once had marginal cooling systems that were subsequently modified at the factory.
That being said, I have to wonder how the Evans coolant would perform if you installed a bigger radiator. Maybe have a bigger radiator installed before you abandon Evans?
I have long thought the Mark VIII (like many production cars) has a marginal cooling system. I say this because I know with all the mods done to my '93 I have noticed that it doesn't take much more "load" to see an increase in operating temps.
I'm not sure of the details, but 4.6L Cobras once had marginal cooling systems that were subsequently modified at the factory.
That being said, I have to wonder how the Evans coolant would perform if you installed a bigger radiator. Maybe have a bigger radiator installed before you abandon Evans?