Losing water

[thegr81]

I hope I'm not repeating history but I'm losing about a gallon of water every couple days. Those of you that know me no I've blown up a couple of these but the car runs flawlessly no smoke coming out the exhaust but I think the cap on the reservoir definitely leaks everytime I turn off the car. I'm thinking of replacing the cap atanyway. I don't have a thermostat in but I've done that two other cars before and didn't have an issue. Anybody got any ideas? And the temperature gauge is reading fine and there's no destination or overheating unless the water level get low. That's how I first noticed it the reservoir was completely empty. Could the water be evaporating out the cap? What a bad radiator do that? I don't know

 

[enriquei]

Go to a parts store and get a combustion leak test kit. It won't completely rule out a head gasket leak, but it'll probably show you if you do.

 

[Lvnmarks]

No puddles under the car? Sitting off or running? If your oil and coolant look clean and your exhaust is clean, I would start cleaning around the cross over tube and run the car, watching for leaks.

I would recommend putting a thermostat back in as your engine will run better with a more regulated temperature control.

 

[paskevich]

A room dehumidifier can pull a gallon of water out of the ambient temperature of a room in about week without you ever thinking the room needs it. What do you think a 1000 degree exhaust manifold will do with a gallon over the course of a week? You would need to have one serious gasket leak to see water coming out of a fully heated exhaust. And at that point, your engine will be acting accordingly.
It's has to be going somewhere........... Besides boiling out the cap and evaporating,.. Is your oil muddy grey? If it isn't making a puddle,.. it's either leaking across "a" manifold and evaporating,... running down the underbody while driving,.. or being eaten.
As said above,.. you won't notice a gallon being eaten over a week. People with water injection will use more than that just to be happy.
A compression may tell, but not if a leaking gasket is acting as a check valve. And what's a gallon divided by 8 cylinders over a week? A 1/4 drip a stroke? Probably not even show on a compression test, Off the wall here,.. I didn't check the internet, but I bet there's a clever way to check it. (I love and trust some of the clever tests on the internet)

 

[Ford nut]

Is it pushing it out of the overflow tank?

 

[thegr81]

There's nothing or no pressure coming out of the reservoir tank. I myself thought it was a small leak somewhere while it was running but I don't see it. Car won't lose any water while it's sitting. I filled it up and let it sit all weekend and the level didn't go down so if there is a leak it would have to be under pressure. I just filled up and drove around the block and as soon as I pulled in it started coming out of the reservoir cap. The fan is working and it didn't show any sign of overheating. I am right now sitting with it running to see if it overheats or anything else. But its not showing signs of getting hot temperature gauge slowly gets up to the middle and stay there

 

[thegr81]

There's nothing or no pressure coming out of the reservoir tank. I myself thought it was a small leak somewhere while it was running but I don't see it. Car won't lose any water while it's sitting. I filled it up and let it sit all weekend and the level didn't go down so if there is a leak it would have to be under pressure. I just filled up and drove around the block and as soon as I pulled in it started coming out of the reservoir cap. The fan is working and it didn't show any sign of overheating. I am right now sitting with it running to see if it overheats or anything else. But its not showing signs of getting hot temperature gauge slowly gets up to the middle and stay there. Well I just let it run for 30 minutes the fan comes on obviously there's no oil in the water or vice versa but about halfway into it I unscrew the reservoir cap and it sucked down all the water almost out of the reservoir. I top it back off let it run without the cap in about 10 minutes of started to boil up so I put the cap back on. Water level never went down and it never overheated. And when I shut it off no pressure leaks.

 

[driller]

I can't imagine it being that low and not spiking the temp gauge.

I would first install a t-stat and then do a pressure test. You can buy cooling system pressure test kits complete with fittings for just about any cooling system. Worst case would be to have a local shop do a pressure test on the cooling system.

If the radiator was clogged, you could be boiling coolant.

 

[thegr81]

That's what I was wondering about the pressure test. Normally without a reservoir the cap would be directly on the radiator and making the past simple. You think of thermostat would be necessary to before the pressure test? I mean pressure is pressure? That was my original thought was the radiator was bad. As someone that hasn't done how does one know what part is bad?

 

[driller]

That was my original thought was the radiator was bad. As someone that hasn't done how does one know what part is bad?

I've used a IR heat sensor to detect clogged radiators at work. A typical scan will show an even temperature gradient from inlet to outlet where a clogged radiator will be limited in the area of flow and show portions radiator as either hot or not so hot.

Here is the coolant flow path of the 4.6L DOHC...

 

[thegr81]

Like I said I hope I'm not repeating history as it turns out I am and will have to check this out when I get out of the hospital again. Just can't seem to get right anymore. I'll pull out my heat gun or rather Laser temperature gauge then scan the radiator when I get out. Is number 5 the overflow? I can see the cross over from the intake but I'm not sure if number one is the overflow or number 5 what would number one be? I'm back in the cardiac wing after another heart episode. Can follow on Facebook under my name Jason Spiro

 

[tixer]

It looks like # 7 is the overflow /line/ where 5 is the overflow /tank/ (reservoir.) #1 looks like the heater core to me, but given the text, I think it'd be pretty easy to misread the "7" as a "1" Heck, I do that all the time on clear text..

Sorry to hear you're back in the hospital again. I hope this is a quick in and out for you. Get back on those (v8 powered) wheels as soon as you can.

 

[thegr81]

Okay so I'm home from the hospital I level off the fluid water and start the car after about 30 seconds I can watch the water level go down in the reservoir ever so slowly. So I top it off while its still running I put the lid on. Using my laser pointer temperature sensor driver side temperature reading 91 degrees and passenger side radiator hose at 80 degrees after about 5 minutes. When the temperature sensor in the car reaches the midpoint temperature reading at driver side of intake manifold at 180 degrees radiator side 170. Its kind of hard to get spot on the radiator through the shroud but I'm a 135 to 158 degrees. And it will stay just like that idling forever without overheating. Then I shut the car off and you can hear a kind of bubbling and then the water will start coming out the reservoir. Hitting that with the temperature sensor at 170 degrees is warm to the touch but not scalding. On the other hand having topped off the water drove down the highway to my doctor 20 miles no overheating as soon as I stop the car and turn it off then it bubbles out again. Anybody got ideas?

 

[Roadboss]

Just out of curiosity have you tried filing the coolant up thru the cross over pipe at the top of the motor? I mention this only because you talk about air bubbles and I haven't read where you have removed the trapped air.

 

[driller]

I think until you have a t-stat and properly burp the cooling system, conventional diagnosis is going to be difficult because of the masquerade effect.

Without a t-stat, there is no regulation of coolant temperature and no bypass pressure. This could cause a myriad of issues including an open circuit in the coolant path with unrestricted use of the radiator.

Air in the coolant system also interrupts the coolant flow and could cause localized boiling of the coolant? This may be part of what you are experiencing.

IMHO, you need a t-stat to allow the cooling system to function as designed and make sure there is no air pockets by properly burping the cooling system, then perform pressure test diagnostics.

What may have worked for you previously may not be working for you now.

 

[Ford nut]

Head gasket.. Same thing my 97 did it will slowly get worse.
I'm thinking when the engine is shut off back pressure goes out the overflow.

 

[thegr81]

Yea ive lost a couple from head gasket failure.ibwent to the drive thru store and home ( less than mile...5 minutes) didnt come out overflow but was 1/2 gal low. Must be thermagasket time. I used it on my first car until I put the headers on and I guess it disturb the gasket and failed. The next car went 30,000 miles on the thermagasket before I sold it and it is still working today and that was a bad head gasket issue with smoke coming out the exhaust

 

[thegr81]

Well I know I've been through a couple of head gasket issues and yes I've burp rd the system to where there's no air pockets. What's baffling me now if its a head gasket I would think it would overheat no matter what. I let it sit in the driveway and running for an hour temperature never went above 180 no overheating and when I shut it off nothing came out of the overflow. When it was cool after I watch the debacle Sunday Night Football I went a block away to the store and back . I left it running and open the door and I could see the water running down the driveway. Open the hood and it was coming out the reservoir. But the temperature was it 190 coming out of the intake and 1:30 in the radiator 120 going into the motor. When I shut it off it did not come out the overflow because I guess it already did. It took a empty half gallon milk jug to refill it. I then restarted it and let it sit again for an hour and nothing. So I guess it's something to do with under pressure while driving.

 

[tixer]

Well, I'm definitely in agreement with Driller on re-installing a thermostat and associated gasket.

The other thing that would make me think twice, is that with all of the boilovers and additions, I'd guess you are running close to 100% water at this point, (or were this whole time.) Even though I'm a northerner, I know the boiling point of Glycol is quite a bit higher than water too, so it'd be a lot less likely to boil under any circumstances.

I've never determined what one of these cars "prefers" to run at, but I'm running a 195 degree thermostat in mine, which just means that it opens at 195, but presumably the system runs somewhat hotter. This isn't far at all from 212.

 

[Ford nut]

Well I know I've been through a couple of head gasket issues and yes I've burp rd the system to where there's no air pockets. What's baffling me now if its a head gasket I would think it would overheat no matter what. I let it sit in the driveway and running for an hour temperature never went above 180 no overheating and when I shut it off nothing came out of the overflow. When it was cool after I watch the debacle Sunday Night Football I went a block away to the store and back . I left it running and open the door and I could see the water running down the driveway. Open the hood and it was coming out the reservoir. But the temperature was it 190 coming out of the intake and 1:30 in the radiator 120 going into the motor. When I shut it off it did not come out the overflow because I guess it already did. It took a empty half gallon milk jug to refill it. I then restarted it and let it sit again for an hour and nothing. So I guess it's something to do with under pressure while driving.

Sounds like my 97 to a T, I battled it for 9 months burped the crap out of it, it would be fine for a while then push fluid.
I'm pretty sure on my car it was not the temp of the coolant causing it to come out the overflow but pressure from the combustion chamber.
After time it will push out enough coolant to cause over heating.

I will know more soon because that engine is on the stand waiting for me to find time to pull the heads