New MK8 owner from Oregon, the State Park.

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evilscientistmoose

New member
Hi, gang.

I recently purchased/horse-traded for a 1994 MK8, with that weird sissy-light-blue color (I like it, actually), and dark-blue interior...which I also like.

After having owned something like one hundred cars and trucks (8 Fox-body Mustangs, 5 70-71 Torinos, several T-birds, a few Mercury offerings, 8 Crown Vic wagons, etc, etc)...I finally got one of these cars, after having very little to do with them since their initial introduction into the market, waaaaay back in 1992 (1993 model year intro, I drove the first or second MK8 sold in Oklahoma, I worked for a Ford dealership in 1992, and there was a prominent OB-GYN in town who was a Lincoln fanatic).

Anyway, back to the car.

I really like the car. I've been able to take a couple of road trips in it since buying it...I don't know why I screwed around with other cars, to be entirely honest, I should have just bought one of these.

First things first:

1. Is a 5.0 stroker version of the DOHC worth the trouble? I'm not a big fan of forced induction, especially on a car where there isn't room to do it properly, meaning, cubic dollars to make it work...

2. I think this car is begging for cubic inches, either through a 408W, or a 460...is this a bad thing?

I'm not wanting to build a corner carver, I just want a (somewhat) Grand Touring car that I don't have to drop down two or three gears in order to get an engine into its happy spot...

This car is almost perfect the way it is, but has some room for improvement (transmission is horrible in this car, echoing my experience with other 4R70W vehicles)...and while the existing engine isn't perfect, it's...close.
 
driller

driller

El Presidente
Welcome! :)

"Worth" is a relative term... there will be differing opinions on a stroker 5.0 version of the DOHC, but it certainly can and has been done before. In the N/A form, cubic inches is only superseded by compression ratio with the modular motor IMHO. It's all in the details, starting with the crank.

The cramped engine compartment and low hood line certainly limit the options available, I'm not confident what non-modular engines would even come close to "fitting" without bucket loads of cash and time.

As far as a "grand touring car", I believe the Mark VIII is a superb candidate as I'm sure many here will agree. ;)
 
tixer

tixer

Lincoln Evangelist
Welcome! I'm a big fan of Oregon. And blue Mark VIIIs.. I hope that blue interior is in good shape.. You just don't see that anywhere else. (except Driller's car.. of course. :D)

I'd suggest hanging around the board here a bit. There's lots that can be done with these cars. I drove a 5-speed converted Mark about a year ago that was really an eye opener. I liked my car as-is, but rowing your own really wakes it up.

Looking forward to hearing about your experiences with this car, and the others.
 
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evilscientistmoose

New member
tixer said:
Welcome! I'm a big fan of Oregon. And blue Mark VIIIs.. I hope that blue interior is in good shape.. You just don't see that anywhere else. (except Driller's car.. of course. :D)

I'd suggest hanging around the board here a bit. There's lots that can be done with these cars. I drove a 5-speed converted Mark about a year ago that was really an eye opener. I liked my car as-is, but rowing your own really wakes it up.

Looking forward to hearing about your experiences with this car, and the others.
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The blue interior is in....pretty good shape. The door panels are a bit weary, in that they have both been off of the car a couple of times...and are missing a tab or two. Back seat is in perfect shape (obviously), most everything else is good, except for the silly climate control, which appears to have been used as a 10-key inventory machine for the last three decades, as every one of the buttons has the center punched out of them, which makes it reeeeally interesting to drive at night with 8 or 9 bulbs aimed directly at your face.

The previous owner was a female: apparently, somewhere in Bend, Oregon (I live here too), the weather swings wildly between 80 below and 140 above, requiring constant hammering of the HVAC controls to keep the occupants inside the car from exploding in a titanic fireball, which might explain the punched out buttons of the controls.

Concerning the 5-speed conversion...to be entirely honest with you, I'm sick of the freaking automatic. I don't have very far to drive to work (5 miles?), and I'm recalling a previous customer's 1997 Cobra that I did a hell of a lot of work on (long-tubes, exhaust, gears, suspension, clutch), and how fun the car was to drive (more fun than a stock Terminator Cobra). I already have a Cobra T-45 sitting on a shelf in the garage (free!), but I've seen a few mentions about how much grief they are; my brother has a 1997 Mustang GT with a modded T45 (works great), I've driven several other cars with that transmission...they worked great...other than the shifter-relocation problem (which I have some of the pieces to), and the clutch pedal assembly (I have a T-bird SC unit in the garage), I'm not sure where the hate comes from, but I would seriously entertain being educated, as it wouldn't be too difficult to score a TR3650 from a 05-09 Mustang if that would work better.

I like letting the car shift itself...but I'm getting annoyed with my constantly having to turn 'O/D' off to drive it around town, as 'lugging' is apparently the primary mode of operation with this car, perhaps a throwback to 1969-1971, when decent 460's were being utilized in Lincoln products...and you could indeed lug around town all day at idle.
In addition, there's no ability to manually hold it in first...it will go through all gears (trans is rebuilt), but if you pull it back into 1....nothing. If in D, it will drop to 2nd...but that's all. 1st does work, but there's no manual way of getting it there, you simply have to slow down.

So far as mods are concerned...there's a 3.73 TL pumpkin waiting to go in (along with a 1993 driveshaft, came with the car), and dual (Duel! Fight! Win!) exhaust with 50-series Flowmaster Delta mufflers (quiet!) sitting in the rafters, waiting for an exhaust shop opening.

What do I think of the car? Other than the crappy headlighting of the 1st-gen...and the chintzy plastic...did I mention the plastic?...if anyone is wishing to bestow the virtue of these cars upon potential owners, and are failing to do so...you guys seriously need a better salesman. Having owned more than a few other cars from Ford, and having worked on or driven most everything else out there...Ford went backward from the MN-12/FN-10 chassis platform...at least from a suspension standpoint. Even brand-new Mustangs beat you to death...the Camaro is like driving a sluggish WWII pillbox (can't see out of it)...and the Challenger is an overpriced tank. My car got the full Strutmasters conversion (previous owner), so the ride is firmer than I remember...but I've been driving the crap out of the car..and it's pretty stable with whatever I throw at it.

There isn't anything else out there that's like it, short of the Porsche 928...and I don't have enough headroom in that car (long torso)...and it doesn't have the room anywhere else, either (yay, trunk space!). Chevy has nothing, Dodge has nothing, and every freaking BMW out there has strut front suspension, not to mention that if you own a CANBUS BMW, there aren't any easy engine swaps out there (LS, for example), as the computer system has been untouchable to all but a few of the most insane girlfriend-and-wife-free computer nerds. There simply isn't anything else out there like these cars, sorry. If you're having trouble selling the concept of the MK8 to other people...other people who might be on the fence...seriously, it shouldn't be that difficult. The cars are cheap, basic mods are cheap (to a point), and with a few annoyances, the stock, unaltered cars are fun to drive, not to mention comfortable.

More later.
 
tixer

tixer

Lincoln Evangelist
Wow. it sounds like you have quite the parts stash.. Although, I'm pretty sure that my own parts stash has that climate control part you need. Once you have enough posts to send me a PM, please do so.

As for your transmission thoughts, I'd consider these threads to be required reading. There are others, but this is a good start. :)

http://www.lincolnsofdistinction.or...d.php?34233-Pullied-3-Another-total-makeover/

http://www.lincolnsofdistinction.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?38157-98-LSC-Mild-Street-car/

http://www.lincolnsofdistinction.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?33365-She-s-came-a-long-way
 
driller

driller

El Presidente
evilscientistmoose said:
The blue interior is in....pretty good shape.
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Blue interiors rule! :)

evilscientistmoose said:
The previous owner was a female: apparently, somewhere in Bend, Oregon (I live here too), the weather swings wildly between 80 below and 140 above, requiring constant hammering of the HVAC controls to keep the occupants inside the car from exploding in a titanic fireball, which might explain the punched out buttons of the controls.
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Sounds typical... too hot - crank down the AC / too cold - max heat. LOL :rolleyes:

evilscientistmoose said:
I like letting the car shift itself...
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Gears and converter with a good tune on the transmission will entirely change the driving style of the Mark VIII. :cool:

evilscientistmoose said:
So far as mods are concerned...there's a 3.73 TL pumpkin waiting to go in...
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IMHO, 4.10s are a better match for driving local. The 3.73s do make for a better highway cruiser.

evilscientistmoose said:
...Ford went backward from the MN-12/FN-10 chassis platform...
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Couldn't agree more... while I haven't driven the newest Mustangs, my experience with the ride quality mirrors yours.

evilscientistmoose said:
There isn't anything else out there that's like it, ...

The cars are cheap, basic mods are cheap (to a point), and with a few annoyances, the stock, unaltered cars are fun to drive, not to mention comfortable.
Click to expand...
Amen! :D

With a user name of evilscientistmoose, an affinity for blue and the prose in your posts... I'm thinking "I like this guy". LOL :thumbsup:
 
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evilscientistmoose

New member
driller said:
Blue interiors rule! :)



Sounds typical... too hot - crank down the AC / too cold - max heat. LOL :rolleyes:



Gears and converter with a good tune on the transmission will entirely change the driving style of the Mark VIII. :cool:



IMHO, 4.10s are a better match for driving local. The 3.73s do make for a better highway cruiser.



Couldn't agree more... while I haven't driven the newest Mustangs, my experience with the ride quality mirrors yours.



Amen! :D

With a user name of evilscientistmoose, an affinity for blue and the prose in your posts... I'm thinking "I like this guy". LOL :thumbsup:
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I'm curious as to the full details, and eventual results of your 5.3 build. I've attempted to get more details...but have been thwarted by lack of info. Curses.
 
O

opalescent 96

New member
Are you saying that it won't kick down to first gear when you're moving? Does your shifter line up? Maybe they installed the valve body wrong?
 
driller

driller

El Presidente
evilscientistmoose said:
I'm curious as to the full details, and eventual results of your 5.3 build. I've attempted to get more details...but have been thwarted by lack of info. Curses.
Click to expand...
Lots of info of the build...

http://www.lincolnsofdistinction.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?32039-Blue-Flame-All-Out

The best the car has done at the track since was a 12.550 @ 106.73. Sensing things to come would require more fuel than the old Walbro pump, I decided to revamp the fuel system.

http://www.lincolnsofdistinction.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?36402-Fuel-system-upgrades

Since I seemed to be chasing my tail trying to achieve a good state of tune, I decided after the fuel pump upgrade to have Mad1stGen convert the car to OBD2 to be able to datalog the car and eventually have more tuning capabilities.

The recent conversion to OBD2...

http://www.lincolnsofdistinction.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?40482-Blue-Flame-goes-OBDII

Long story short, after a spring break dyno tune and some track testing, I'm still in the tuning process which has currently been thwarted by weird STFT's and some anomaly which results in a lack of throttle response off idle. :(

http://www.lincolnsofdistinction.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?41444-Failed-MAF

My current plans are to just get it running right and get some seat time in at the track while I keep trying to get a more capable H/C/I setup. Too many distractions in my way right now... :mad-tilt:
 
driller

driller

El Presidente
IIRC, putting the shifter in 1st should lock the trans in 1st and it should not shift.

Starting out with the shifter in 2nd should disable 1st gear and the trans stays locked in 2nd gear.

With the shifter in drive, it should automatically shift from 1st through 3rd and 4th is allowed unless the OD is locked out via the button on the shifter.

As described you should be able to manually shift the transmission starting in 1st, bumping the lever to 2nd for the 1-2 shift and again bumping the lever to 3rd for a 2-3 shift.

Putting the shifter in 1st while moving will not allow a shift into 1st until the vehicle speed is low enough.
 
C

chris2523

New member
driller said:
IIRC, putting the shifter in 1st should lock the trans in 1st and it should not shift.
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incorrect. certain years, my 96 included, will 1-2 shift even when the gear shift is in manual first.

Jerry W. says

Once upon a time, oh 10 years or so ago, a higher up at the Blue Oval mandated to us that we make the transmission shift out of manual low gear into 2nd even if you didn't move the shifter. Kicking and screaming we complied. Starting in the late 90's we were able to change this back due to early retirement packages.
Click to expand...
 
E

evilscientistmoose

New member
driller said:
Lots of info of the build...

http://www.lincolnsofdistinction.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?32039-Blue-Flame-All-Out

The best the car has done at the track since was a 12.550 @ 106.73. Sensing things to come would require more fuel than the old Walbro pump, I decided to revamp the fuel system.

http://www.lincolnsofdistinction.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?36402-Fuel-system-upgrades

Since I seemed to be chasing my tail trying to achieve a good state of tune, I decided after the fuel pump upgrade to have Mad1stGen convert the car to OBD2 to be able to datalog the car and eventually have more tuning capabilities.

The recent conversion to OBD2...

http://www.lincolnsofdistinction.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?40482-Blue-Flame-goes-OBDII

Long story short, after a spring break dyno tune and some track testing, I'm still in the tuning process which has currently been thwarted by weird STFT's and some anomaly which results in a lack of throttle response off idle. :(

http://www.lincolnsofdistinction.org/vbulletin/showthread.php?41444-Failed-MAF

My current plans are to just get it running right and get some seat time in at the track while I keep trying to get a more capable H/C/I setup. Too many distractions in my way right now... :mad-tilt:
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I am seriously impressed, simply by the fact that this car isn't super-or-turbocharged.

I do have a question: Having followed countless tuning attempts with stock computers over the years...might it not be a good idea to simply go with an aftermarket setup, say, something with an 'auto-tune' feature, similar to the MSD 'Wiredless' system for the Chebby LS? Yes, I'm aware that transmission controls aren't included...but I find it funny that the stock system, while it initially appears to be the way to go, you're not the first person I've seen that was tripped up by a ridiculously anal problem (a header leak? Really?) which sends the stock computer into a hissy fit. While the OBDII systems are a lot better at ease of tuning vs. the ancient stuff, the fact of the matter is that the modern equipment seems to be more of a elaborate emissions nanny versus a truly-stupendous system for running the vehicle as flawlessly as possible.

When I describe, to a customer, about where it all went wrong, I go back to the Mustang A9L computer. From what I know, the A9L was something of an 'idiot-proof' ecm, in that almost anyone could throw parts at an '89 Mustang 5.0, and it still all somehow worked; from interviews with various tuners of the time, Ford supposedly didn't know what they were going to do with the car, therefore the parameters for various values were thrown wide open. 1990 saw reduced parameters, and they kept decreasing, as memory devoted to emissions nannyship, on the flipside, kept increasing, until modern-day, when even a cold-air intake on a 2014 Mustang GT now requires a tuner to make it work...but Ford knows if the gas cap is even the slightest bit loose, or an emissions solenoid might only be working at 99% of capacity (yes, I know that Ford has gone to capless systems, but the error codes still exist).

At this point...having fought with both my own cars, and the cars of various customers...I don't see myself screwing around with any factory ECM system, as I find it a bit hilarious that EFI is supposed to be the final word on adaptability...yet with new 'self-learning' systems excepted, I might as well have stuck with a carb and electronic ignition for the grief and wasted lifespan simply trying to fix the errors that pop up with attempting to modify Ford's half-assed 'emissions first, performance maybe later' system.

Yeah, I'm complaining, sorry, lol. After seeing person after person spend years attempting to get what were supposed to be easy systems to work, if we're not using these cars as daily drivers anyway...why aren't we using a carb, again? Geebus, a simple 460 with modern heads, cam, intake, and carb...or even a 408W (I've gotten a couple to get pretty good mileage, kinda frightening, really)...

More later, I'm off the soapbox for now, lol.
 
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