Overheating In January

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Red Box Rebel

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Here are couple of pictures of the job and the old parts. As you can see, the adjustment pistons are fully extended. The old chains were very loose.

The first picture is of the new chains already installed. Yes, it is not an easy job.
 

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LSC HUNTER

New member
Well, lets hope that replacing timing chains will correct the overheating? New one to me but I have an open mind.
 

Red Box Rebel

New member
Engine runs Great!!

Okay guys, thank you for the compliments!! I had help and it is not a real difficult job with the exception of removing the valve covers.

The biggest problem was removing all the stuff so I could get to the cam, chains and gears.

The engine is back together and it started right up and the difference in the way the engine sounds and runs is considerably better. Before performing this job I had changed a leaking radiator, changed out the original thermostat for a new motorcraft stat, changed the temp sensor, put on a new by pass cap, and put in a new recovery tank. The system was properly burped and the system had the right amount of water/coolant. The heater core flowed properly and was not blocked. A new water pump was installed and the system was clean and flowing properly.

But, it still ran hot on a -32 day and could not be driven above 40 MPH without going into the red.

I have not driven the car yet, but at a high idle (3000+ RPM) for nearly an hour, the gauge stayed right in the middle and did not move up at all. Once I have the brakes bled and some other things I have been doing finished, I will take it out on the road for the real test under load. (Had to disconnect the lines from the master cyclinder) So far, it appears that the problem is resolved, but we shall see next week.

I will keep you posted.
 

Meister

New member
Did you need/use any of the specials tools for the timing of the motor?

I've considered doing this to get rid of the chain rattle. How much was the kit?

Doug
 

Red Box Rebel

New member
Special Tools

Did you need/use any of the specials tools for the timing of the motor?

I've considered doing this to get rid of the chain rattle. How much was the kit?

Doug
The only special tool was the tool to keep the cams in place once you removed the timing chains. If the cams move while the chains are off, then the valve timing will be out and then you will have a bigger problem. The special tool is available and costs between $130 and $150. A less expensive alternative so to use a set of 4 vice grips on one side of the engine at a time. This will work just as well and costs a whole lot less than the special tool. Unless you are in the business, the tool is a one time use tool and is very expensive.

If the cams stay in place, then all you have to do is line up the marks on each of the gears.

What I did as a fail-safe measure, was to put marks on the cams with whiteout and the journals. The white marks told me if the cams moved while the chains were off. The whiteout will not harm the motor and comes off rather easily.

 

SCTBIRD1173

Mark my Bird!
A less expensive alternative so to use a set of 4 vice grips on one side of the engine at a time. This will work just as well and costs a whole lot less than the special tool. Unless you are in the business, the tool is a one time use tool and is very expensive.

If the cams stay in place, then all you have to do is line up the marks on each of the gears.

What I did as a fail-safe measure, was to put marks on the cams with whiteout and the journals. The white marks told me if the cams moved while the chains were off. The whiteout will not harm the motor and comes off rather easily.

So you used the vice grip method? I've never done cam timing on a DOHC motor but any SOHC motor I've done I've just used a wrench on the cam bolt to hold the cam on the timing mark and then put the belt/chain on. Since the 4.6 DOHC cams are tied together by a secondary chain I would think it would act much like a SOHC motor when you're doing the timing. Since this is all fresh in your mind do you think that technique would work?
 

Red Box Rebel

New member
Runs like a Charm!!

Okay yesterday I took the Mark out for a test drive.

I drove the mark under load for about an hour at varying speeds, but fast enough to bring it up to full operating temp and the fan was at full speed. The temp stayed right in the middle of the gauge like it used to when new.

The difference in performance was quite a bit improved. I guess when you slowly lose performnace over the years and miles, it is not noticed very much. But, the improvement was very noticeable.

The good news is that it is not overheating and performs like new with 235,000+ miles. Not bad for a 16 year old motor!

With regard to the questions about the special cam tool and vice grips, I did not look for a rental. We bought a tool, but found the use of the vice grips much better than the special tool. There is only one tool and we used four vice grips on each bank of the motor. We did one side at a time, so we did not need 8 vice grips.

The question about the similarity between the single cam and the dual cam set up is a little difficult since I have not worked on the single cam motor. But, I do not see how you could work on the duel cam motor without the cam tool or using the vice grips to keep the cams from rotating when the chains are off.

Both of the cams are tied together with a chain. That chain is driven by another chain that is driven by the crank. I cannot imagine why you would risk the cams rotating while the chains are off. I do not see how the job can be done properly and safely without the special tool or vice grips, but I could be wrong.

Vice grips and whiteout are not expensive and will remain useful for other jobs after the chain replacement job has been completed.

Thanks for all the advice and input. Happy Motoring to all!!
 

Lvnmarks

quandoomniflunkusmoritati
With regard to the questions about the special cam tool and vice grips, I did not look for a rental. We bought a tool, but found the use of the vice grips much better than the special tool. There is only one tool and we used four vice grips on each bank of the motor. We did one side at a time, so we did not need 8 vice grips.
Do you have any pictures of doing this?
 

Meister

New member
I still don't know how this fix would cure overheating? :eek:
I was just avoiding that whole issue, as I don't think the chain was the root issue. Otherwise you would see these motors overheating left and right as they chain stretched, which you don't see.

Doug
 

Red Box Rebel

New member
Oh Ye of little faith

I was just avoiding that whole issue, as I don't think the chain was the root issue. Otherwise you would see these motors overheating left and right as they chain stretched, which you don't see.

Doug
Anonther non-believer? Okay, that is fine, but let me just re-cap the situation for you:

Engine overheating, so the shop manual diagnostic steps were followed and each item according to the shop manual was checked and/or replaced and eliminated as a cause of the overheating.

New Moorcraft thermostat was installed when all new hoses were installed. The original hoses after 16 years and 235,000 miles were not leaking, but they were getting very soft.

Radiator was found to be leaking and it was replaced with a new one since the Mark VIII radiators cannot be repaired.

The heater core was checked for flow and it was flowing properly and was not leaking.

The cap on the water by pass tube was not holding pressure and it was replaced with a new one from Ford.

A new temp sensor wa installed.

The entire system was flushed and drained and the proper amount of water/coolant was installed. The system was properly burped and refilled. The cooling fan was coming on and was working properly

After all of the above was performed, the system did run cooler, but still was running hot and under load above 45 MPH would go into the red. So, if everything in the cooling system was either replaced, cleaned or filled and burped properly, why the oveheating problem?

In doing research about this problem, my good friend who helped me complete the timing chain job found an article that listed possible causes for overheating and stretched timing chains was on the list. The article had been based on the discovery of an engine that was also overheating and traced the cause to stretched timing chains.

My engine had been running poorly and we found oil in the sparkplug holes due to leaing valve covers. We had to remove them to replace the gaskets anyway, so we decided to remove the front cover to inspect the chains and tensioners.

We found that the tensioners were fully extended, but that the chains were still very loose. It was obvious that valve timing was off and not in phase with the ignition timing. The article described this as a possible cause of overheating.

We decided to replace all the chains and tensioners. Since the coils were covered in oil I decided to spring for a set of 8 accel coils and they were installed with new motorcraft plugs. After the timing chain job was complete, we restarted the engine and we were amazed at the difference in performance.

As I told you earlier, the car was tested under load at high speed and never once did the gauge go past the halfway mark. The engine is running as good as new and it is not overheating.

If stretched timing chains cannot cause overheating, why did replacing them all resolve the overheating problem?

Why didn't all the other fixes tried, fix the problem? So, please tell me why the engine was overheating before replacing all the chains?

Until you pull the cover and look at the tensioners, you will not be able to tell if the chains are stretched beyond the range of proper specifications.
 

Lvnmarks

quandoomniflunkusmoritati
Not saying that wasn’t the source of the overheat, but it is a very rare occurrence. And kudos’s to you for tackling a timing chain job over a motor swap.

I'm sure you haven’t owned the car for its whole life so it's safe to assume maintenance wasn’t performed when needed. So if someone neglected oil changes to every fifteen thousand miles, it possible to have excessive ware on the chains. The average person doesn’t care about their car after 100,000 miles, it's amazing what frequent oil changes can do.

*Sometimes* a blitz fix is easier than spending allot of time on finding an exact cause. Just like what I did on my Town car,wouldn’t idle right so I changed the engine, thinking the intake had a vacuum leak.
 
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