U.S. cars top European in reliability

steve

With "LOD" Since 1997
http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/sv/20040309/tc_sv/uscarstopeuropeaninreliability

Yahoo! News Tue, Mar 09, 2004

U.S. cars top European in reliability
Tue Mar 9, 6:47 AM ET

By Matt Nauman, Mercury News

For the first time in 25 years, European cars aren't as reliable as those made by U.S. automakers, Consumer Reports magazine says in its annual auto issue that hits newsstands today.

Asian automakers continue to lead the industry, the magazine says, but domestics topping the Europeans is a sea change.

Especially considering the high quality of cars the Europeans have been known for, "this year they seem to have dropped considerably," said David Champion, senior director of Consumer Reports' auto test department and head of its 327-acre testing facility in Connecticut.

In all, only eight of 41 European cars and trucks tested by Consumer Reports' editors and evaluated by their readers earned the coveted "recommended" check mark.

They were: BMW 3-Series, Porsche Boxster, Saab 9-3 and 9-5, Volkswagen Passat six-cylinder, Volvo S60, S80 and V70.

European bestsellers such as the Audi A4, BMW 5- and 7-Series, Land Rover Discovery, Mercedes-Benz C-, E- and M-Classes, Mini Cooper, Volvo XC90 and VW Golf, Jetta and New Beetle aren't recommended.

In a telephone conference with reporters, Champion revealed a startling statistic: a new 2003 BMW 7-Series sedan has more problems than an 8-year-old Lexus LS 400 sedan.

Consumer Reports confirms a growing awareness of less-than-perfect quality with the cars and trucks made by European automakers.

Last year, J.D. Power and Associates' Vehicle Dependability Study of 3-year-old vehicles showed "substantial quality gaps" between domestic and European models. On average, European vehicles had 49 more problems per 100 vehicles than did U.S. cars and trucks at three years of ownership.

Will growing awareness of quality problems begin to affect the reputation and sales of European cars?

"I'm sure it will," Champion said. "People who buy these expensive cars tend to be busy people. Any down time in their day is a big annoyance to them."

A Mercedes-Benz spokeswoman said via e-mail that her company wouldn't comment on the findings until it got more specific details from Consumer Reports. A call to the U.S. headquarters of Volkswagen in Auburn Hills, Mich., wasn't returned Monday.

Most of the problems with European cars, according to Champion and Rik Paul, the magazine's automotive editor, relate to electrical systems and power components such as seats.

European brands such as Mercedes-Benz, BMW and Audi "do tend to make very complicated vehicles," Champion said. Still, vehicles from Lexus and Infiniti offer similar complexity without similar problems, he said.

And, Paul noted, the problem more precisely is an apparent lack of progress rather than lack of quality.

The number of problems with European vehicles actually fell from about 21 per 100 vehicles in 2002 to 20 in 2003. Domestic vehicles, however, fell from about 21 in 2002 to about 18 in 2003.

The average for all vehicles in the survey is 17 problems per 100 vehicles, while Asian models only have 12 problems.

Consumer Reports has been issuing unbiased, independent evaluations of automobiles since 1936, said James Guest, president and chief executive of the Consumers Union, the non-profit publisher of the magazine.

It takes no advertising and buys the vehicles it tests anonymously, Guest said. Consumer Report spends $1.9 million a year buying the cars and trucks its editors tests. Reliability data comes from a survey sent to its 4.1 million subscribers. This year's issue is based on the 675,000 responses that were returned.

A 2003 Forrester survey showed Consumer Reports to be the second-most-influential source of information for car buyers after dealership personnel. A CNW Marketing/Research study showed that more than 40 percent of car shoppers use Consumer Reports before buying a car or truck.

Contact Matt Nauman at mnauman@mercurynews.com or (408) 920-5701. His fax number is (408) 271-3786.
 
RE: U.S. cars top European in reliability

Pretty neat. Once they reach Japanese car quality it will be all good. But thats still a pretty far way to go.


Domestic vehicles, however, fell from about 21 in 2002 to about 18 in 2003.
while Asian models only have 12 problems.
 
RE: U.S. cars top European in reliability

I think it just shows the novelty of the imports is wearing off. Now that they are commonplace, they are judged the same.

It took Japan three decades to go from the image of poor quality products to high quality products. I wonder if the American auto makers' image will recover sooner.

Alexander
President
Lincolns of Distinction
 
RE: U.S. cars top European in reliability

I got a real good kick from that. THANK YOU, STEVE :) :)

I considered 4 cars prior to buying the Lincoln. The Infiniti M45, the Volvo S80 Elite, the Saab 9.5 AERO and the Town Car. I bought the T.C. over the Infiniti M45 because of the $9,100 discount I got at Lincoln compared to the $2,000 I got at Infiniti. $15.00 seperated the two from one and other in MSRLP.
Over the Saab AERO because I was a little leary of the 5 Cylinder Turbo Set-Up. It came down to the T.C. or the S80 Elite because of the terrific service I get at Maplecrest L-M, the free Town Car Loaner, the fix it fast & right everytime and how they treat me, I bought the T.C.

So look. The Saab 9.5 AERO & the S80 are BOTH in the short list of 8 cars. To date, I've had one problem (minor) the hood latch needed a little adjustment in alignment.

I am glad I bought another Lincoln. No regrets. I really like the car.

By the way, recall that last time I was there for service they had that new guy that really P'd me off? Remember I said he'd last a month??? He lasted 2 weeks & 3 days!!! History!
 
RE: U.S. cars top European in reliability

How many miles are on the TC nowadays? My guesstimate is 4500.
 
RE: U.S. cars top European in reliability

2,837 in 11 months Town Car "greenKIN"
17,779 Jeepers in 34 months
9,777 Sixty Special in 11 years
2,343 Blue McLaren in 14 years
0,655 Grey McLaren in 18 years
7,327 Silver McLaren in 14 years

40,718 Total

Ill sell the Town Car in 2008 with 16,000 on it. Jeepers will be kept until Matt graduates college & finds work & buys the next one. The rest will never leave me, until I die & my wife trades them all in on a Chevy Aveo or something :(
 
RE: U.S. cars top European in reliability

I've NEVER been a fan of European cars..never. I've had too many friends that have had nothing but problems, and heard horror stories about service nightmares.

It's funny that they said how reliable an 8 year old Lexus LS400 is. I told Sandy just the other day that I test drove a 1991 LS400 last week that had 300,000 on it and was astounded by how quiet and smooth it still was. I mean this car was 13 years old and it was quieter than most every new car we've test driven. The paint was in great condition, there was some wear on the drivers seat leather, but that was about it. The paperwork for the service on the car had ended a little over 100,000. Everything on this car was solid and still rattle free. I was amazed. My next car is 100% going to be a Lexus.
 
RE: U.S. cars top European in reliability

Lets place the order !!

Base MSRP* $55,125.00 LS430 Sedan

Delivery, Processing & Handling Fee† $625.00

Available Packages $13,629.00
• Ultra Luxury Selection with Additional Options
- Interior Package with Perforated Luxury Aniline Leather Trim
- Preferred Accessory Package (includes Cargo Net, Trunk Mat and Wheel Locks)



Accessory Options $0.00
• Preferred Accessory Package (includes Cargo Net, Trunk Mat and Wheel Locks) Included


Total MSRP** $69,379.00
Net Net to U $66,800.00 + $4,000 tax = $70,000 + tags & title. Appox $110,000.00 CDN
Go for it, Ron :)
 
RE: U.S. cars top European in reliability

Or.... you can go to www.carsdirect.com
MSRP 55,125,00
and choose the Premium Package $1,112

CarsDirect Price:$53,609MSRP Price: $57,349Invoice Price : $50,

Get it for almoust 20k cheaper than Sandy listed ;-)!
 
RE: U.S. cars top European in reliability

No No different animal.
I took the ultimate it can/could be, the Ultra-Luxury Package with Aniline interior. That's $12g more! Hey, ya don't skimp on an LS430
 
RE: U.S. cars top European in reliability

Sorry to say Sandy i think you missed a couple of options.

Ultra Luxury Package 9,112
17 in Chrome Wheels w/All-Season Tires $850
Interior Upgrade Package $1,680
Lexus Link $1,015
And to top it all off Preferred Accessory Package (•Cargo Net .•Trunk Mat .•Wheel Locks ) $125
CarsDirect Price: $67,054MSRP Price: $72,294 Invoice Price : $62,054
 
RE: U.S. cars top European in reliability

No, Moe - I am not anti it, it's just that in that price range there are other choices, that I would prefer.

Audi A8
Jaguar S-Type "R"
Jaguar XKS Coupe
Infiniti Q

But, I'll never have to make THAT decession....I ain't in that league.
 
RE: U.S. cars top European in reliability

yes, but how much does a FULLY loaded A8L or S8 cost?

If your going to compare them with the most expensive Lexus, you have to do the same with the other cards.
 
RE: U.S. cars top European in reliability

They are all in pretty much the same neighborhood. I am not in THAT neighborhood.
 
RE: U.S. cars top European in reliability

A new LS 430 or a new 645Ci? The hell with reliability, that's why god invented a lease...
 
RE: U.S. cars top European in reliability

You would have to compare that one with the SC430, but I dont really like it ever since they re-designed in '01. Never the less, 0-60Mph in 5.7secs (high 13's) sounds impressive for an SC.
 
RE: U.S. cars top European in reliability

Not quite sure how you got those numbers. A 2001/2002 SC430 runs somewhere in the HIGH 14s in the 1/4. 14.7 /14.6. Low 6s in the 0-60.
 
RE: U.S. cars top European in reliability

Now I’m thinking you meant the GS 430. That one does run high 13s in the quarter. I find this amazing since it weighs in at around 3725 pounds which is about what the Mark weighs. But it had 300hp and 325 pound feet of torque. Not sure how it can be a full second faster than the mark.
 
RE: U.S. cars top European in reliability

Thats Lexus for ya, the LS430 has 290HP, and with their new 6speed auto, it does 0-60mph in 5.7 secs too.
 
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