After front conversion rear air not working

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LeoC2

New member
OK so as you know I had to convert Moose's front end to coil/shock from Strutmasters. Now the problem is that the rear no longer inflates, no compressor, nothing!

We checked fuses, ran power to compressor (works fine), checked lines, talked to Strutmasters who's only response is to buy a rear conversion kit.

I don't want to convert rear as I need leveling due to small trailer towing on some weekends.

So does any one have any suggestions? Anyone experience this before?

I'm not happy with Strutmasters after this experience.
 
tixer

tixer

Lincoln Evangelist
Were the front ride-height sensors removed? I'd think the air ride system would require them to be present in some capacity for it to function.

Although I also assume you'd be getting a "check air ride" message if that were the case.

Actually - the shop that did the conversion. Did they cut the wire in the harness that prevents the messages from getting to the computer? I'll bet it was part of the instructions for the kit to do so.
 
tixer

tixer

Lincoln Evangelist
There's some fantastic troubleshooting information in this thread.

http://www.lincolnsofdistinction.or...issues-Maybe-I-can-help-00-Navigator-BIG-READ!

It's for a Navigator, but I'll bet the information is the same. If I interpret the section on the ride-height sensors correctly, and did my math right. (a "big" if..) you can terminate those front ride height sensor plugs with a 125 ohm resistor, to feed back the ~2.5v that the system reads as "level." Of course if you get that wrong, the system will just keep pumping air to the non existent front bags for all eternity.. keeping the sensors in place is almost certainly easier.
 
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LeoC2

New member
tixer said:
Were the front ride-height sensors removed? I'd think the air ride system would require them to be present in some capacity for it to function.

Although I also assume you'd be getting a "check air ride" message if that were the case.

Actually - the shop that did the conversion. Did they cut the wire in the harness that prevents the messages from getting to the computer? I'll bet it was part of the instructions for the kit to do so.
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Sensors are still in place and all systems have been checked. Yes the wire was cut behind the glove box to prevent the error message.

Just got off the phone with American Air, thinking I might pick Eddie's brain and I was told that the parent company is Strutmasters which I didn't know. They are trying to help resolve this.

One ing my mechanic thought is that we need to reinstall the front solenoids from the old bags. I'm about to call Arnott to see if they can suggest something. The rears are new from them just last fall.
 
tixer

tixer

Lincoln Evangelist
I'd put a switch in that wire, or a pair of spade connectors. It'll help troubleshoot. Really, any error message will terminate function of the system, so that's what you are troubleshooting.

My first guess now, would be that the front sensors are in a position where the system needs air. it'll pump to the front until timeout, (since the front won't actually adjust,) and then cause a fault. You may need to just adjust those sensors a bit to make sure they're in the right place.

I'm not sure if the system is capable of testing for the presence of the solenoids, or if they're a simple on/off switch.. You may be onto something with reinstalling them however, and just strapping them out of the way somewhere. Alternatively, take a multimeter and test one of the solenoids for resistance. if there's any, the system could be using that to test for presence.
 
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LeoC2

New member
Just a thought in case i get nowhere finding the problem. Since the compressor works fine and air is being sent to the rear I COULD (I guess) install a push button switch in the car to turn the compressor on when needed for a minute or so just to level the vehicle. It doesn't need it that much as long as pressure is maintained in the rear which it is. The rear is brand new at less than a year old.

I don't really want to have to do this but it's better than the air not working & being forced to do a conversion.
 
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billcu

Head Moderator
Yes, you need to put in switches to open the rear solenoids, run the compressor, and vent the springs manually now.

Similar to the Kale mod, but just for the rear. With some clever wiring you should be able to do it with a 3 position, double pole switch.

You need to open the rear solenoids whenever you run the compressor or energize the vent solenoid.
 
driller

driller

El Presidente
chris2523 said:
the car does in order,

lift front
lift rear
vent front
vent rear

if it gets stuck, it stops.
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True, but in addition I believe the system first does a system check which include the height sensors and solenoids. This is when the system issues a hard fault code and an immediate check suspension warning. If the wire to the message center is cut, you obviously would not see this warning. Did you try the setup before cutting the wire?

LeoC2 said:
...install a push button switch ...
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Hmmm. I'm left wondering if you could do the Kale mod sans the front switches?

I guess I would begin with having both the front sensors in place and make sure they are at normal ride height. I would also say the front solenoids would need to be in the circuit for the suspension self-test.

I seem to remember some time back about some misinformation on exactly which wire to cut. If the color was incorrect the correct pinout needed to be verified.

I think Moose is just telling you you should've not done a spring conversion. :p
 
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LeoC2

New member
This is getting to be too much, my head is about to explode! I'm royally pissed at Strutmasters and also at American Air for claiming this would have worked and now passing the buck saying to just convert the rear as well. They are no help at all.

We're going to place the solenoids back and see if that helps.
 
L

LeoC2

New member
OK so problem solved. It turns out that when converting the front to coils you MUST also retain the solenoids from the sir struts.

THIS INFORMATION IS NOT IN THE INSTRUCTIONS! Instructions say to remove and discard.

The way we found out was simply by trying it and wham, compressor started up and rear filled nicely.

So to re-iterate so everyone knows what's involved so you don't have to go through it like I did. Strut masters and American Air WEHERE NO HELP AT ALL. Their technical customer service was as useless as boobs on a bovine, they told me that never in their history have they had the rear not continue to operate when only the front was done. NEVER? I don't believe them.

At one point I asked them if the solenoids need to be in place and at first she said yes it's in the instructions. I asked her to tell me exactly where in the instructions it was and she then admitted it's not in there. She then said the chief engineer said that the solenoids DO NOT need to be retained.

Luckily the mechanic is a friend and an excellent mechanic as well. He proceeded logically to reinstall things and test and sure enough the solenoids were the missing factor.

I'll be calling Strutmasters on Monday to rain some fierce holy hell on them because they charged me over $200 to expedite the shipment so I could use Moose on the weekend to tow the trailer and that proved useless. If the instructions in the conversion kit had stated to retain the solenoids all would have been fine. I hope they do the right thing and reimburse me for the expedited shipping.
 
driller

driller

El Presidente
LeoC2 said:
One ing my mechanic thought is that we need to reinstall the front solenoids from the old bags.
Click to expand...
tixer said:
I'm not sure if the system is capable of testing for the presence of the solenoids, or if they're a simple on/off switch.. You may be onto something with reinstalling them however, and just strapping them out of the way somewhere.
Click to expand...
driller said:
True, but in addition I believe the system first does a system check which include the height sensors and solenoids. This is when the system issues a hard fault code and an immediate check suspension warning. If the wire to the message center is cut, you obviously would not see this warning. Did you try the setup before cutting the wire?
...
I would also say the front solenoids would need to be in the circuit for the suspension self-test.
Click to expand...
What took so long? :p

LeoC2 said:
OK so problem solved. It turns out that when converting the front to coils you MUST also retain the solenoids from the sir struts.
Click to expand...
 
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