I have a small problem... hoping for some help

[Myco]

Hey guys..

I used to have my car on lowered coils. Toward the end of that time I bottomed out once and instantly my car had 20more HP. I couldn't attribute it to anything except maybe the 3rd cat was clogged.

I've been fighting mpg issues and so last week I decided to finally just take that 3rd cat off as It's nothing important. ( I have a 97 btw ).

So I took the car to a shop I trust and he had a crossover in shop he said he would put on there for 120$. I figured that was cheaper than I thought ( I had been quoted 90$ a side and this mechanic was friends with a guy I trust so going back to him is no problem... )

Anyway, I had him put it on... It's been identified as an aftermarket x-pipe ( I had asked for an H-pipe.. got screwed there) that he apparently cut up and put on the car.

Afterwards my car has gotten pretty crappy fuel economy and a huge loss in torque. Reading up on the situation I found that the placement of the crossover / x-h pipe is important. I read that further back than what's originally there is no big deal but further up toward the engine is.

Anyway, here's pics. It appears the x-pipe is about a foot or more further back than the original 3rd cat.

Here's a pic of where the original 3rd cat is (not my car )

Think that is my culprit?

 

[Myco]

New update.

I had new 02's put in about 5 months ago, but I just stopped by oreilly and had the codes read (and cleared).

Came up with
171
174 (bank one and two both lean)

P1151 Lack of Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Sensor Indicates Lean - Bank No. 2
P1152 Lack of Upstream Heated Oxygen Sensor Switch - Sensor Indicates Rich - Bank No. 2

Car doesn't see the 02's it's saying. What could have caused that I wonder.

( I replaced the front 02's by the way... not the back)

The reason I thought it was the x-pipe placement is because it was after the shop did the work that I noticed the lack of torque. As in on the way home I noticed the difference.


I know these codes are new. I had the codes read a month ago ( the 171,174 was there along with several others but not the O2 sensor codes.

 

[chris2523]

what year is your car?
2 lean codes mean something is making your car run lean.
vacuum leak. fuel flow issue. bad maf. etc. something isn't right.

 

[budpytko]

Think he said it was a '97.

 

[chris2523]

Think he said it was a '97.

you're right. i didn't read all the way back in the first post.
since it's obd2, can you find a scan tool for live data logging?

 

[steve]

I was going to say the O2s but you said you just had them replaced.
You will need to address the codes, removing the 3rd cat and putting the X pipe in there would not cause the issues you described. Maybe during the install the O2s got damaged or the wire?

 

[Myco]

Just to give you guys a bit more info:

I do most of the maintenance items on my car.

In the last year:
spark plugs/ boots/ 5 COP's have been replaced.
fuel filter/ injector cleaning/ seafoam treatment has been done / and Vacuum line 'smogging'
MAF is 2 weeks old.
The O2 sensors are 4 months old.

I'm trying to hunt down why I'm getting those lean codes. I didn't replace that 3rd cat to trouble shoot the lean code. (see above)

I've reset the codes and on the way home will have them read again. ( then again after I let it sit for several hours w/the battery(neg) cable off )

 

[Myco]

After clearing the codes I drove 1/2 a mile to a starbucks and studied for 3 hrs. On the way home all my torque was BACK! Yay! Hope it stays that way.

Now to address the 171,174 codes. Been chasing that demon for months.

Thanks for the help.

 

[steve]

Why did you need a new MAF, what did you replace?

 

[Myco]

Why did you need a new MAF, what did you replace?

About a month ago I noticed a rough idle so I pulled the codes. This is what I got:

0113--Intake Air temp.. circuit
0102--Baro or Maf/vaf sensor condition
1518-- throttle actuator control module performance
0171--trim bank 1
0174--trim bank 2

Those are the readings I got from AutoZone:

Because of the 0102 I got another MAF. I'm currently looking for an air intake sensor.

Just looking at the codes again online I don't see a 0102 but do see a 1102 and a 1112 (for the intake sensor)

Also, it says for 1518 that "Intake Manifold Runner Control fault - Stuck Open"

Which could mean I need to try another seafoam treatment (but actually might need to get in there and clean the entire intake and take them out.

I never cleared those 5 codes. 3 of them went away on their own.. the 171 and 174 stayed though. I did pull the battery for 20 minutes when I put in the new MAF so they might have cleared then.

Anyway, that's why I got a new MAF.

 

[Myco]

Is the 'module' the black box in this picture?

I can reach the passenger side IMRC cable to flop it open but can't reach the drivers side. I pulled the cowl the other day and fixed the vent leak I had and dummy me forgot to try to pull the cable on that side.

I haven't taken an intake off since high school so I'm a bit hesitant to do so.

Right now the problem I feel is that when I get in the car sometimes the first time I hit the gas I have to feather the gas to get it to go. Under WOT it seems to fun fine... after a couple minutes the idle seems to settle down so I thought maybe the gas regulators on top of the engine? ..? Dunno... heard of these things but never seen a post so don't even know WHAT they look like! lol

 

[chris2523]

a stuck open imrc will cause: lean codes and a lack of low end torque! and driveability problems. but, since they open at high rpm, your WOT will be unaffected.
time to fix that stuck imrc.
yes, the black box controls the imrc's.

 

[steve]

you can clean the mass air flow sensor wires with special cleaner made for that or electronic component cleaner. Don't use brake or carb cleaner that is too harsh.

You don't have an oil air filter do you?

 

[Myco]

This morning my friend brought over this do-hickey.

I drove around with it attached but didn't look like it went over 35psi. I'll need a friend to drive around with me to verify.

 

[chadly]

Intake manifolds are pretty to remove on the Gen 2. Once you get it out clean those IMRC's really good.

 

[budpytko]

pretty.....what?????

 

[AnthraxBird]

That fuel pressure should be around 35. Check it with the key on, engine off. Also while running at idle too. The loss of power is most likely the IMRC's like previously stated. Also, removing that cat caused you to lose some low RPM torque also, due to the decreased back-pressure. You have stuck IMRC's, and most likely a vacuum leak.

 

[beerdog]

Are there any ways to test for a vacume leak?

 

[AnthraxBird]

Are there any ways to test for a vacume leak?

If you have a decent scanner, you can check Short Term and Long Term Fuel Trim. Add the ST and LT trim together, and you shouldnt have more than 6. If you do, the ECM is compensating for extra air entering the engine. Another easier way is to go get a few cans of Brake Cleaner, and spray it at all areas where leaks are known to occur, like the intake manifold, all vacuum lines, the intake air tube, throttle body, etc. Listen for a slight rise in idle, since the brake cleaner is flamable, when it gets sucked in via a vacuum leak, it will raise the idle, then you found your leak

 

[chris2523]

If you have a decent scanner, you can check Short Term and Long Term Fuel Trim. Add the ST and LT trim together, and you shouldnt have more than 6. If you do, the ECM is compensating for extra air entering the engine. Another easier way is to go get a few cans of Brake Cleaner, and spray it at all areas where leaks are known to occur, like the intake manifold, all vacuum lines, the intake air tube, throttle body, etc. Listen for a slight rise in idle, since the brake cleaner is flamable, when it gets sucked in via a vacuum leak, it will raise the idle, then you found your leak

the front and rear of my imrc's leak. around the bearings. not sure what to do about that.