TOP GUN!

Then and now.......

Then and now.......

The Entertainers of 2003 have been in all of the news media lately - seems News Paper, Television and Radio has been more than ready to put them and their message before the public. I would like to remind the people of what the entertainers of 1943 were doing, (60 years ago). Most of these brave men have since passed on.

Alec Guinness (Star Wars) operated a British Royal Navy landing craft on D-Day.

James Doohan ("Scotty" on Star Trek) landed in Normandy with the U.S. Army on D-Day.

Donald Pleasance (The Great Escape) really was a R.A.F. pilot who was shot down, held prisoner and tortured by the Germans.

David Niven was a Sandhurst graduate and Lt. Colonel of the British Commandos in Normandy.

James Stewart flew 20 missions as a B-24 pilot in Europe.

Clark Gable (Mega-Movie Star when war broke out) was a waist gunner flying missions on a B-17 in Europe.

Charlton Heston was an Army Air Corps Sergeant in Kodiak.

Earnest Borgnine was a U.S. Navy Gunners Mate 1935-1945.

Charles Durning was a U.S. Army Ranger at Normandy.

Charles Bronson was a tail gunner in the Army Air Corps.

George C. Scott was a U.S. Marine.

Eddie Albert (Green Acres TV) was awarded a Bronze Star for his heroic action as a U.S. Naval officer aiding Marines at the horrific battle on the island of Tarawa in the Pacific Nov.1943.

Brian Keith served as a Marine rear gunner in several actions against the Japanese on Rabal in the Pacific.

Lee Marvin was a marine on Saipan when he was wounded.

John Russell was a Marine on Guadalcanal.

Robert Ryan was a U.S. Marine who served with the O.S.S. in Yugoslavia.

Tyrone Power (an established movie star when Pearl Harbor was bombed) joined the Marines, was a pilot flying supplies into, and wounded Marines out of Iwo Jima and Okinawa.

Audie Murphy , little guy from Texas, Most Decorated serviceman of WWII.

There is quite a huge gap between the heroics and patriotism in 1943 and the cowardly posturing of the Hollywood crowd of today.

Another example of the quality of people we had in the United States back then and my personal favorite, baseball Hall of Fame member Bob Feller of the Cleveland Indians. In case you never heard of him, he was the Roger Clemons, Randy Johnson and more of his day. As Major League Baseball's top pitcher in 1941 he was making inexcess of $50,000+ a year but after Pearl Harbor was bombed in 1941 he went down and joined the US Navy and spent four and half years as a gunner's mate on a battleship in the Pacific Theater. Considering his pay dropped to $21 a month as a sailor is in comprehendible to today's Americans. Many professional athletes of the day did the same thing. Can you imagine today's million dollar pros doing that?

** Bill **
1995 LSC-R'ed w/Recaro's and Cobra R's
Veteran of Carlisle 2000/01/02
[a href=//cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=258112]For Pic's and Mods click here[/a]

...Except for ending slavery, fascism, nazism, and communism, WAR HAS NEVER SOLVED ANYTHING...
 
RE: TOP GUN!

CAUTION: GENERALIZATION COMING... Another thing I have noticed, the left seems to be short of two virtues: 1) patience, 2) a sense of humor. Whenever things get hot and heavy, they get frustrated and angry. Just my observation!
Click to expand...

Bryan, Bryan, Bryan... wrong again. Personally I 1) patiently read through your posts and 2) laugh my little tushy off.


just funnin ya. ;-)
 
RE: TOP GUN!

In the name of fun...

Is the over 75% of the country who supported the war conservative or liberal?

There's your first problem: Splitting the population into conservatives or liberals, as if everyone falls into some nice neat category. That's what the Rush Limbaughs and Sean Hannitys would like us to believe, because it polarizes us and gives us someone to vilify.

There are a couple of other reason to do this:

• It allows people to be lazy and not think for themselves, which most Americans excel at. If your guy says he's right, then there's no need to research it and come up with your own informed decision. It leaves more time to catch up on the latest episode of Survivor.

• It discourages debate, and by extention, democracy. You know, the whole "for us or against us" thing. There can be no middle ground. Why is it that almost everything that goes through Congress these days is split right down party lines? I'll tell you why. Because the moderates in both parties are bullied by their party extremists to vote with them. If they don't, they get labelled as traitors to their party, or in the case of Republicans, "RINO" (Republican In Name Only). As a result, there is no compromise, and we end up with policies that are the sole creation of the party who happens to be in power at any given election cycle, rather than policies that truly represent the people as a whole.

And what is the fixation with Rush, Hannity, Fox, etc? All they are saying are things that 150,000,000 Americans think everyday. Unfortunately, the only places they can get the truth is from these outlets. But don't fret, there are more on the way! There is definitely a pole shift in idealogy slowly occuring in this country. As the truth gets out, it's like in the Matrix, people will finally awaken, and see reality.

There you go again, confusing OPINION with "truth". The fixation some of have with Rush, Hannity, and even Fox is that we are dismayed there are people out there who actually consider these "outlets" as anything more than entertainment. I could give you a daily list of the inaccuracies and outright lies that spew from the mouths of Rush and Sean. I'm listening to Rush Limblow as I write this, and I'm convinced that the half of his brain tied behind his back is the half that controls logic and reason. For example, he actually said yesterday that the way to get animals off the endangered species list is to EAT THEM. And he was serious!

As for Fox News, what time does the "news" come on, because I seem to be missing it. All I've seen are those little two minute breaks in between "The Factor" and "Hannity and Colms". And those news snippets are usually devoted solely to coverage of "Operation Iraqi Freedom" and the Lacy Peterson murder. You'd think there wasn't anything else going on in the world that didn't have something to do with the War on Terrorism or the criminal case de jour. Everything else on that channel is opinion and "analysis". I for one would rather them give me the facts and let ME come to my own conclusion. Hell, I get more information from watching thirty minutes of BBC News than a whole DAY of Fox. But even then, television news from ANY channel is at the bottom of my list anyway.

I DO watch a lot of Fox by the way. It entertains me the way The Jerry Springer Show entertains millions of <insert insulting name here>. It gets me mad, it gets me worked up. Nothing relieves the stress of my day better than screaming obscenities at Sean Hannity.

And I'd be willing to bet that much of their ratings success is built upon viewers like me. It's a damned shame, because I see the other networks scrambling to please what they perceive to be a growing conservative audience by hiring assholes like Micheal Savage.

After all, it IS all about ratings these days. The era of Edward R. Murrow is a faded memory. Journalistic integrity is quickly being replaced by an environment where the number of viewers/listeners/readers (i.e. ad revenue) is the only consideration.

Fox News has the formula down to a science. Give our short-attention-spanned people what they want to see: Gung ho war coverage, unquestioning support for our great leader, titillation in the form of the latest murder story, bombastic music and flashy graphics, and if none of that works, beefcake, T & A. But NEVER challenge the viewers to come to an informed decision. And if an opposing viewpoint is presented, bully (Hannity) and ridicule (O'Reilly) that person so as to make their viewpoint appear non-credible.

Meanwhile, the few good journalists who remain, mostly in the print media, are under constant assault from a highly-organized and very vocal, though relatively small, far-right-wing movement. Ever hear the phrase "playing the ref"? These groups use the same technique of "playing the media". They howl "liberal bias" constantly, knowing that if they say it enough times, people will start believing it. And eventually reporters will even start to believe it, and in trying to shed this label, will compromise their stories so as to appear "fair and balanced", even when it is not warranted.

Your "pole shift in idealogy" is a result of this propaganda effort.
 
RE: TOP GUN!

The Entertainers of 2003 have been in all of the news media lately - seems News Paper, Television and Radio has been more than ready to put them and their message before the public.

And how are the "Hollywood Elite" you conservatives despise so much any different than ENTERTAINERS like Rush Limbaugh and Sean Hannity? As I recall, neither of them served any time in the military either. They're both rich and pampered too. So why do their opinions deserve more respect? Maybe it's because they say what you want to hear. Again, how is this any different than Susan Sarandon speaking at a peace rally?

I couldn't give a rat's ass what Susan Sarandon, George Clooney or Micheal Moore have to say, yet conservatives are obsessed with them. I guess it's the same way with me and Rush. Oh well.
 
RE: TOP GUN!

By the way, don't mistake the lack of smileys in my posts as an indication that I'm trying to be a complete jerk. Everything that I have said I would have no problem saying to my best friend face to face in a friendly debate. I just think smileys are incredibly silly. Sorry Moe. ;-)

Another thing: I've come to the conclusion that there is no point in trying to persuade the other side to change their mind. I think the best we can accomplish here is to understand where we're all coming from. And that's the only reason I participate. I want to figure you guys out.
 
RE: Then and now.......

RE: Then and now.......

Well, I was really trying to head off a possible heated "debate" but I guess none of you "Kids" ever heard of any of those "old guys", huh? :)


** Bill **
1995 LSC-R'ed w/Recaro's and Cobra R's
Veteran of Carlisle 2000/01/02
[a href=//cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=258112]For Pic's and Mods click here[/a]

...The price of 93 octane gas in my neighborhood is now $1.49, another month of bombing and it would have been under a dollar :eek: ...
 
RE: TOP GUN!

Mark, I can see you are starting to have fun now. Good for you.

"For example, he actually said yesterday that the way to get animals off the endangered species list is to EAT THEM. And he was serious!

And he was serious? HaHaHa...Ha.....Ha! COME ON, YOU DON'T ACTUALLY THINK HE WAS SERIOUS DO YOU? HaHaHa....Ha..Ha. I'm still chuckling. Take the wax out your ears. He was being facetious. He plays jokes on liberals, tree huggers and other groups all the time, at least 5 times a show. That's entertainment.

Darn, just when I thought you were breaking through, you had to throw that one in there. At least it was a doozy.

And Trix, you make me smile too!:9

Bill, what an excellent post. Keep up the good work. It is appreciated by the Silent Majority, which is the largest unaffiliated party in the country and where that 75% who supported the war came from.

And the smileys are a necessary evil to keep things in the right perspective.

'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
 
RE: TOP GUN!

I see a lot of condescending my side is smarter than your side stuff posted here. I didn't hear Rush but I'm sure the point he was trying to make was, if people begin consuming a species of an animal, you will introduce capitalism into the equation and breeding will multiply overwhelmingly. That's what happens in a free market.

And I unapologetically love Fox & Rush. When I was much younger I would stay up late to listen to William Buckley on TV so I haven't come by my opinions recently and Rush and Fox have nothing to do with them.

Finally I don't have to listen to the news being skewed by the networks.

http://members.tccoa.com/lastmrk/Images/lastmrk2.jpg
 
RE: TOP GUN!

I see a lot of condescending my side is smarter than your side stuff posted here.

Funny, I see the same thing here. Even some proselytizing coming from some corners. As if those of us who don't "get it" simply need to be shown the light. THAT'S what I find insulting.

I didn't hear Rush but I'm sure the point he was trying to make was, if people begin consuming a species of an animal, you will introduce capitalism into the equation and breeding will multiply overwhelmingly. That's what happens in a free market.

He started out by introducing a new "study" that said the amount of trees increase when demand goes up (he never got around to reading it or even citing the source). He then said something to the effect of "You know, this is EXACTLY what I've been saying about animals on the endangered species list", and went on to espouse his theory. So yeah, what you are saying is what he was trying to say. I figured that out when he said it. What I found so ludicrous is the idea that the number of those animals (or trees) is the ONLY consideration, as if we should be perfectly happy with hundreds of spotted owl farms cropping up all over the country with the birds all kept in tiny cages, being forced fed their own processed s___. Damned tree huggers want everything. But let's save the whole "Healthy Forests Initiative" argument for another thread.

And I unapologetically love Fox & Rush. When I was much younger I would stay up late to listen to William Buckley on TV so I haven't come by my opinions recently and Rush and Fox have nothing to do with them.

Finally I don't have to listen to the news being skewed by the networks.

I'm curious to hear where you guys DO get your news. Is Fox and Rush it? Do you consider either one to be fair and objective? Okay, forget Rush for a moment, as there can be no argument that he's highly biased. One of the arguments I hear in defense of Fox News is that it simply balances the liberal bias of the mainstream media. If that's true, then aren't you only getting half the story anyway, just the other half? Or do you honestly believe their tagline "fair and balanced"? If so, then we'll have to agree to disagree.

Look, I know I come across as a condescending prick at times. I do realize I don't hold a monopoly on knowledge. ;-) None of us do. I just want to get to the jist of the matter as quickly as possible and don't have the diplomatic skills to get there without usually offending someone. It doesn't mean I think I'm smarter than anyone. Paul, I hope you don't think I'm sucking up, but I honestly do respect you and your opinions. You seem like a reasonable guy. I'm just struggling to understand you, and I get very frustrated at times. I hope you understand that and that it's NOTHING personal.

With that said...

Bryan: Laugh it up, Planet X boy. Now THAT was a hoot! LOL! :7 :7 :7 :7 :7 :7 :7 :7 :7 :7
 
RE: TOP GUN!

"Bryan: Laugh it up, Planet X boy. Now THAT was a hoot! LOL!"

My concrete shelter is almost finished. Then on to stocking it with 6 months supply of essentials. Kind of like saving for a rainy day.

Here are some numbers that might come in handy.
The Survival Center 1-800-321-2900
Walton Feeds Inc. 1-800-847-0465
Preparedness Mart 1-800-773-0437
Preparedness Center 1-800-866-4876
Root Farms 1-888-868-3487
John's Import Foods 1-773-489-3400 (Greek and Turkish foods)

"David Morrison of NASA´s Ames Research Center, Comets and Origin, P.254: "It is possible for a comet to ´sneak up´ on Earth, escaping detection until it is only a few weeks from impact. A perpetual survey is required to detect long-period comets, and even with such a survey we cannot be sure of success."

Can't wait till NASA and the government finally acknowledges its existence, again. That will certainly be the biggest hoot of all.x(

'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
 
RE: TOP GUN!

Paul, I hope you don't think I'm sucking up, but I honestly do respect you and your opinions. You seem like a reasonable guy. I'm just struggling to understand you, and I get very frustrated at times. I hope you understand that and that it's NOTHING personal.
Click to expand...

I'm happy to see that you understood the hypothesis Rush made about endangered species. I'm also glad to see that you understand he wasn't promoting eating spotted owls or white leopards.

I realize most of us can keep these debates from getting personal, we just disagree. I also hope I'm a reasonable person and try not to let these debates get under my skin. I do see a lot of people from your side though, not here specifically that like to insinuate that conservatives are a bunch of hayseed bigoted uneducated people that misspell potato or mispronounce nuclear ignoring the fact that JFK had problems pronouncing Cuba and Vice President Al Gore had plenty of speaking gaffes himself and without ridicule. They also incorrectly like to talk & laugh about [link:www.snopes.com/inboxer/hoaxes/presiq.htm|GW's supposedly low IQ.]

I also understand that a lot of people think big government is the answer to all of societies problems. A lot of us just believe other wise.

Nor for the real thing you don't understand about me. :) I got my first Mac in 1985 before "the other side" knew what a GUI was. I loved it then and I still do even though some times my apostrophes show up as question marks here. (Does that still happen?)

Besides these little debates, you're probably the member that lives closest to me (Palatine ?) and if I remember, you work next door to where I spend a lot of my Friday nights so you must be a good guy. :) And you drive a GenTwo Mark VIII in my favorite Mark VIII color. The only reason I didn't buy a black one is because there are a lot of those and few Charcoal Green ones.

http://members.tccoa.com/lastmrk/Images/lastmrk2.jpg
 
RE: TOP GUN!

"Bryan: Laugh it up, Planet X boy. Now THAT was a hoot! LOL!"

My concrete shelter is almost finished. Then on to stocking it with 6 months supply of essentials. Kind of like saving for a rainy day.

Here are some numbers that might come in handy.
The Survival Center 1-800-321-2900
Walton Feeds Inc. 1-800-847-0465
Preparedness Mart 1-800-773-0437
Preparedness Center 1-800-866-4876
Root Farms 1-888-868-3487
John's Import Foods 1-773-489-3400 (Greek and Turkish foods)


'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
Click to expand...


Bryan, don't forget the toll-free number to the EIB Network. 1-800-282-2882.

This sure has turned out to be a fun topic. I did not think it would get this much mileage. When you get into the bunker, make sure you get the NY Times, LA Times, and the whatever the San Francisco paper is. You want to be sure and get the unbiased views from the 'best newspapers' in the country. ;-) Nothing like getting the best in news coverage!
 
Old time entertainers...

Old time entertainers...

Bill,

I liked you old time entertainers list. It got me to thinking. I'm a huge boxing fan. On most every list, including ESPN's list, Muhammad Ali is generally know as the greatest boxer ever, and on ESPN's list, one of the greatest American athlete of all time. As you all know, Ali made TONS of money from the US, but refused to go to war when they needed him. You all know the story.

Fast forward to now. Roy Jones Jr. is the best boxer of our generation, and one of the best boxers ever. What would happen (hypothetical) if he was drafted, but refused to fight? Would the fans still adore him the way Ali has continued to be adored? My gut feeling is he would be labelled a traitor, his career would be over (if he didn't go to prison), etc, etc..

For that matter, I think that any professional athlete who said that they weren't fighting because of their religion/beliefs who be vilified. I'm still mystified that Ali got the "pass" that he did. (yes, I know the story it went to court, and was overturned..blah, blah, blah). Still...I had a hard time believing that Ali could be in the same sentence with "Greatest American" when he wouldn't fight for the country that made him a star. What do you think, Bill?
 
RE: Old time entertainers...

RE: Old time entertainers...

Bryan,

Your local talk-show host, Mark Belling, is doing a good job pinch-hitting for El-Rushbo! Make sure you take plenty of batteries and a radio with you when you hit the bunker. Do you have any room in that shelter for a South Texas conservative? It's already too hot down here and it's only early May!
 
RE: TOP GUN!

I'm bringing all three papers. You can never have enough toilet paper.:)


'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
 
RE: Then and now.......

RE: Then and now.......

Well, I was really trying to head off a possible heated "debate" but I guess none of you "Kids" ever heard of any of those "old guys", huh? :)


** Bill **
1995 LSC-R'ed w/Recaro's and Cobra R's
Veteran of Carlisle 2000/01/02
[a href=//cardomain.com/member_pages/view_page.pl?page_id=258112]For Pic's and Mods click here[/a]

...The price of 93 octane gas in my neighborhood is now $1.49, another month of bombing and it would have been under a dollar :eek: ...
Click to expand...

Bill: I just wish (as his 100th birthday looms) you had included Bob Hope. He has always been there for the troops.
 
RE: Old time entertainers...

RE: Old time entertainers...

If you can get Belling on the Internet (WISN AM 1130), sometimes he is pretty good to listen too. Doesn't take any prisoners. A conservative, Number 1 in the market.

I'll take a picture of it when I get done. It is actually half cave with a 16" concrete brick front with 2" steel door. Should do the trick. Upper Wisconsin, Northwoods, very small lake with 5 underground springs feeding the lake. Ideal. I will be holding a lottery when the time comes. It really depends what kind of artillery you can bring along. It will certainly be man-eats-man type of time, so self-defense will be critical. Bring a couple crates of RPG's and your in!

'93 MonsterMark Project Car
Bryan
 
RE: Old time entertainers...

RE: Old time entertainers...

Obviously there's some bias on both sides, but on Fox at least it's labeled as "opinion". Hannity and Colmes and O'Reilly aren't there to provide news, they are there to discuss news and entertain. I like O'Reilly, but i think he is definitely biased. Just biased in a good way :).

My problem with Democrats is their policies. They seem to advocate more and more social programs, and don't seem to trust Americans to manage ourselves as we see fit. Of course, i agree with liberals on some issues. Liberals are usually pro-choice, which I am, and liberals are more likely than conservatives to support the legalization of marijuana, which i do.

But I agree with conservatives on tax cuts, or rather, i agree with Bush. Historically, tax revenues have increased following a large tax cut, and i don't see the problem with giving the people who pay the most more of their money back, esp. since they'll still be paying more than their fair share anyway. I think the idea of universal health care, provided by the government, is incredibly stupid. And i like Bush's style in international politics.

Basically, I think the federal government should be extremely limited in its scope, it's function should be to maintain national sovereignity and manage interstate commerce, and that's it. Any and all social programs (most of which i disagree with, even though there are certainly some that have done much good) should be handled on a state level, in my opinion.

If anyone wants to argue with me on any specific issue, i'm ready. I don't want to argue liberals vs. conservatives in a general sense, because i enjoy the company of a few of the people on this board who identify themselves as liberal.

Basically, capitalism good, socialism bad. Republic good, democracy bad (I tossed that in to make you think). Freedom good, laws bad. Follow our constitution to the letter and i'll be happy.

/soapbox
 
RE: Old time entertainers...

RE: Old time entertainers...

Just curious..anyone here writing letters to their Senators about that horrid Patriot Act II erroding your freedoms? What's everyone's take on that one? I have read it, and if this was trying to be passed in Canada, I'd be sending 100 letters a day to prevent it...
 
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